[Bryan Izatt]

Not to reopen old wounds, but rather to add some meat to the bones of Hugh Wilson's trip to the UK in 1912, the following article from a Scottish newspaper from April 5, 1912, was found by Niall Carlton.  I'm sure we can parse the words until the cows come home, but if nothing else the article puts Wilson in Scotland as early as the beginning of April and seems to indicate that the writer thought Wilson had already built "exactly similar" template holes and was visiting to try to learn how to keep them "as like the originals as it is possible".

[DMoriarty]

Thanks very much for the article Bryan and Niall.    This should clear up some confusion regarding some of the courses Wilson visited.  Niall, what newspaper?  Thanks again!  

A few comments and a clarification . . .

- Notably, the apparent source of the information was Hugh Wilson himself.  Who else there would have been able to speak to what happened at Merion?  The article provides similar information from others in the Philadelphia press; many (or most) of the holes were based on famous holes abroad.    And this again raises the obvious question as to how Wilson could have designed holes modeled after the famous holes abroad when he had never even seen those holes?  

- The phrase "green architects" is interesting and apparently applied to the green keeper(s) and/or perhaps the green committee.  

- I've read elsewhere that Hugh Wilson was an avid photographer.  It sure would be nice to find his photographs.  I imagine there might be one or two of interest.  

- One clarification, Bryan.  You wrote that "the writer thought Wilson had already built "exactly similar" template holes."   While we may have concluded that Wilson was in charge of building the holes, the writer might not have.  Rather than crediting Wilson with building the holes, the writer noted that Wilson "belongs to the club where the holes are constructed exactly similar to the most famous holes in this country."    So the question of who built the holes was not addressed.

It may seem to be nitpicking, but I think the distinction is worth noting.   It seems as if Wilson was focused what to do next, and this fits well with the theory that Wilson's predominate design contribution occurred after his trip abroad.

[Bryan Izatt]

Thanks very much for the article Bryan and Niall.    This should clear up some confusion regarding some of the courses Wilson visited.  Niall, what newspaper?  Thanks again!  

A few comments and a clarification . . .

- Notably, the apparent source of the information was Hugh Wilson himself.  Who else there would have been able to speak to what happened at Merion?  Seems likely that the source was Wilson himself, but is there evidence that demonstrates that he traveled alone?  The article provides similar information from others in the Philadelphia press; many (or most) of the holes were based on famous holes abroad.    And this again raises the obvious question as to how Wilson could have designed holes modeled after the famous holes abroad when he had never even seen those holes?  Without wanting to argue the point, I guess he could have learned of them from M&W and built copies of their copies.  The original versions were considered weak weren't they, that were later (after he returned from the UK) remodeled.  

- The phrase "green architects" is interesting and apparently applied to the green keeper(s) and/or perhaps the green committee.  Interesting indeed.  Are there earlier references to "architects" in American golf literature?  Or, Scottish literature?  Rather than the green keeper or the green committee it could simply refer to the distinct function of golf architect as we understand it today.  Niall, in your search of old articles have you seen any other references to "green architects", and how they might relate to other functions?

- I've read elsewhere that Hugh Wilson was an avid photographer.  It sure would be nice to find his photographs.  I imagine there might be one or two of interest.  

- One clarification, Bryan.  You wrote that "the writer thought Wilson had already built "exactly similar" template holes."   While we may have concluded that Wilson was in charge of building the holes, the writer might not have.  Rather than crediting Wilson with building the holes, the writer noted that Wilson "belongs to the club where the holes are constructed exactly similar to the most famous holes in this country."    So the question of who built the holes was not addressed.  Point taken.  I was actually more focused on the oxymoron  that "exactly similar" is.  I was wondering how journalists can write such odd things.  It seems to happen frequently is these old articles.  One wonders if the writer was trying to say exact copies or copies that were just similar in concept. 

It may seem to be nitpicking, but I think the distinction is worth noting.   It seems as if Wilson was focused what to do next, and this fits well with the theory that Wilson's predominate design contribution occurred after his trip abroad.  If you want to make that inference, you can, but I don't think that the article above provides any support for or against the inference.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Bryan,

Thanks for posting new information!

As to what it means, my first impression, which could be wrong, of course is that the trip was a revelation for Wilson in his rebuilding of features later.  IF he built features, like the Alps, etc. to CBM and NGLA standards, he might have been suprised to see how much more natural the originals looked.  Could this account for the more natural look MCC went on to use?

While we can debate how much influence CBM had on the original, I always thought the importance of Merion was in its adaptations of bunkers to the American landscape, i.e., the White Faces of Merion.  I even wonder if Wilson made it down to the White Faces of Dover on his trip and used that to coin the name.....but MCC stopped looking like NGLA early, perhaps because of Wilson's visit to GBI.

Anyway, I have postulated before that Wilson's legacy probably lies as much or more in his early redos of Merion than in his original contributions as head of a team that routed the course initially.  This would fit nicely in that theory.

[Bryan Izatt]

Jeff,


Thank Niall; the article was his find.

I think that's the "white cliffs of Dover", not the "white faces", but nice try.   

As for the rest, sounds good to me, except the last paragraph.  I think it is still open to question who did the post Barker, pre-construction "routing".  I sometimes wonder how the Phillie crew is doing in finding the topo map, or whether that has turned into a dead end.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Bryan,

White Cliffs could still have been the inspiration! No parsing of words for you!

As I understand it, its most likely that the topo map Wilson sent Oakley resides in Oakley's file in Washington DC, probably a warehouse somewhere.  That would require someone to either spend a week to find and research those files, or hire some history student from Georgetown or other local University to do it, which is actually fairly common and not that expensive.  At least, not that expensive or time consuming for a man of TePaul's means and leisure....(hint, hint)

That document would be worth looking for.  If an empty topo, as the wording suggests, it would probably put the timeline back into April as the minutes suggest. If it had a stick routing on it, it would put it up in November or earlier.  In other words, its the new Holy Grail!  Of course, if it has no holes on it, some could argue that antother version existed with holes on it, so then again, maybe not.

I know TePaul also has met some of the descendents of Lloyd and may be looking to see if the family has any of the records on the HDC side that might contain the early routings, etc.  That strikes me as more of a long shot.

[David Stamm]

The term "green" could mean "beginner, novice".

[Phil_the_Author]

Why is everyone naturally assuming that the writer of the article is talking about Merion? He used the phrase, "He belongs to the club where the holes are constructed exactly similar to the most famous holes in this country..."

We know that Wilson was there representing Merion, but is it possible that the WRITER of the article thought he was talking about NGLA? To me, that would be the reasonable assumption as it had already been written about in journals in the U.K. whereas no design articles of Merion have yet to be found from that time. The readership would have been very aware of NGLA; I don't believe that is the case with Merion, and yet he wriote in a manner that suggests his audience has that familiarity.

I think this is important as the next question would be if he was refering to Merion, why didn't he mention it by name? I think the answer is that the information for the article DIDN'T come from Wilson, that it more likely came from either Harry or Willie Fernie.

Bryan, you asked, "Are there earlier references to "architects" in American golf literature?" Yes there are. I have found this term used when speaking about those who design golf courses in America as far back as the late 1800's. 

[Tom MacWood]

Niall
Great find, thanks for sharing it. It clearly spells out his intinerary. From that you may be able to determine which famous holes they were trying to replicate. He must have visited Mid Surrey and Sunningdale in London based on subsequent info that has come out.

[David Stamm]

This may have been covered, but was HW actually a member of NGLA?

[Steve Lang]

   In those days, were there any "Letters of Introduction" that Wilson might have carried with him or had sent in advance to all the clubs he was visiting and taking pictures of or did he just show up and say "XYZ told me to ask for ABC or may i take some time of the Greenskeeper when he's finished his duties?"

or were the UK courses generally open to visitors from abroad?   (the first raters???)

 

[Tom MacWood]

The term "green" could mean "beginner, novice".

Green architect was a fairly common term back then and was used interchangably with golf architect or golf course architect.

[Tom MacWood]

This may have been covered, but was HW actually a member of NGLA?

Not to my knowledge. CBM included a list of the members in his book and Wilson is not included.

[Jeff_Brauer]

The term "green" could mean "beginner, novice".

Green architect was a fairly common term back then and was used interchangably with golf architect or golf course architect.

Tom,

That is interesting and given that CBM supposedly coined the phrase golf architect, not surprisng.  The phrase green architect might make a lot of sense in the day when greens and tees were the only thing really built on most courses, and the rest followed the land.

I am interested in a brief description of "other information" on Wilson's trip that suggest a visit to Sunningdale, if you would be so kind.  I seem to have missed that or forgotten it if it was posted on this thread.  Thanks in advance for any insights.

MCC at a year old wouldn't have been famous then in England, so I am not surprised that its not mentioned. I guess I am also curious as to how this was deemed newsworthy, but not to the extent that Merion wasn't mentioned, but Wilson is.  Did he just happen to pass a reporter that needed to fill up space?  Did his contacts suggest to the reporter that he interview Wilson?  Ahhh, more speculation!

[Niall C]

Gentlemen,

I'm shocked at your interpretation of this article. Clearly it is positive proof that Willie Fernie designed Merion. After Wilson sent Fernie a topo, Willie sketched out a rough routing sent it to Wilson telling him what template holes to build and where, and then after Wilson had carried this out he visited Fernie at Troon to show him some Polaroids he'd taken of the course and then Willie gave him some further advice by showing him the originals. EASY !

Can you not just imagine the conversation;

Wilson - "Well Willie, MacDonald was telling me that we should have the Alps hole over by the Redan"

Fernie - "Don't be foolish, don't listen to that old windbag, you'll never be able to get the ginger beer stall in behind the green if you put the hole there" ......and so on.

Actually, I don't think this article proves anything about what went before but it does raise a couple of questions for me. Like Phil, I was wondering if Wilson was a member of NGLA given the reference to THE club where the holes are constructed etc etc. It is a bit frustratiing that the article doesn't mention the name of the club but as always its about reading this type of information in the context of where it is found, in other words what earlier articles by the same writer are there where either Merion or NGLA are mentioned as the course with replica holes. I've gone through quite a lot of the articles written by this writer but unfortunately I haven't as yet looked through the proceeding years to this article.

Second question - where did this info come from. I would suggest that the writer got the info from a contact at Troon, who may or may not have been Fernie. The writer wrote a regular column in the Evening Times (Glasgow newspaper) where he mentioned the goings on at the famous courses such as Troon, North Berwick and of course St Andrews. Generally anyone of note who visited got a mention. Judging by the fact that Wilson is referred to as "Hugh J. Wilson" I would suggest that he either wrote in advance with a letter of introduction or happened to meet the writer of the article and Wilson then gave him his card. I think the letter of introduction is more likely given that the writer doesn't actually say he met Wilson.

Niall   

[Niall C]

Niall
Great find, thanks for sharing it. It clearly spells out his intinerary. From that you may be able to determine which famous holes they were trying to replicate. He must have visited Mid Surrey and Sunningdale in London based on subsequent info that has come out.

Tom

Not absolutely certain of the Troon layout at that time but off the top of my head I think that Fernie made the alterations a couple of years previously (1909 ?) which gave us the far loop. ie. new Postage Stamp 8th hole and the Railway Hole (11th), both of which are mentioned in the article. The article also refers to the Sandhill bunker but not sure what that feature was/is, the dune in front of the 10th tee perhaps ?

I think theres a mention in Darwins book about the Postage stamp. Clearly Fernie would have been proud to show off his creation. Incidentally, I found a reference to Fernie paying a visit to make alterations to Silloth in 1912. Silloth also has a Postage Stamp hole and I'm thinking that it might be down to Fernie. Haven't followed that one up yet.

Niall

[Bryan Izatt]

Gentlemen,

I'm shocked at your interpretation of this article. Clearly it is positive proof that Willie Fernie designed Merion. After Wilson sent Fernie a topo, Willie sketched out a rough routing sent it to Wilson telling him what template holes to build and where, and then after Wilson had carried this out he visited Fernie at Troon to show him some Polaroids he'd taken of the course and then Willie gave him some further advice by showing him the originals. EASY !

...............


Niall   

I think you might want to lay off the haggis, Niall, it's starting to rot your mind.   

[Niall C]

Thanks very much for the article Bryan and Niall.    This should clear up some confusion regarding some of the courses Wilson visited.  Niall, what newspaper?  Thanks again!  

A few comments and a clarification . . .

- Notably, the apparent source of the information was Hugh Wilson himself.  Who else there would have been able to speak to what happened at Merion?  The article provides similar information from others in the Philadelphia press; many (or most) of the holes were based on famous holes abroad.    And this again raises the obvious question as to how Wilson could have designed holes modeled after the famous holes abroad when he had never even seen those holes?  

- The phrase "green architects" is interesting and apparently applied to the green keeper(s) and/or perhaps the green committee.  

- I've read elsewhere that Hugh Wilson was an avid photographer.  It sure would be nice to find his photographs.  I imagine there might be one or two of interest.  

- One clarification, Bryan.  You wrote that "the writer thought Wilson had already built "exactly similar" template holes."   While we may have concluded that Wilson was in charge of building the holes, the writer might not have.  Rather than crediting Wilson with building the holes, the writer noted that Wilson "belongs to the club where the holes are constructed exactly similar to the most famous holes in this country."    So the question of who built the holes was not addressed.

It may seem to be nitpicking, but I think the distinction is worth noting.   It seems as if Wilson was focused what to do next, and this fits well with the theory that Wilson's predominate design contribution occurred after his trip abroad.

David

The article is from the Golf Notes column of the Evening Times as I mentioned in a previous post. The writer is Bulger, which I think is a pen name for William Stuart, who was a long standing member of the Glasgow Golf Club. Stuart joined Glasgow GC in 1893 and was Captain in 1909 and remained a member until his death in 1926. The Bulger column starts round about the early 1890's and continue until at least 1924. I say at least 1924 as I haven't gone beyond that point yet.

What is clear from his writings is that he knew or had met many of the leading figures of the day, eg Willie Fernie, Willie Campbell, Willie Park, Old Tom etc and reported what they were upto. He also wrote about what was going on abroad, hence comment on Willie Campbell and Willie Parks trips abroad for example.

Template Holes - what I think is quite interesting when you look at some of these early designs is the prevalence of template/model holes. MacDonald might have been the first to come up with the idea of a whole course with them but he certainly wasn't the first to use them. I was playing at Killermont (Old Tom course from 1903) earlier this year when it struck me for the first time that the fourth hole is a Redan. No one at the club ever refers to it as a Redan, as frankly most members are blissfully unaware of the concept of model holes. That certainly wasn't the case back then, model holes were quite widley used and I believe were discussed in the golfing press, so even though Wilson hadn't seen the originals he surely would have been aware of their principle features even if he hadn't visited NGLA.

If Wilson did write to Troon prior to his visit it would be fascinating to see a copy of that letter, it might be fairly revealing. Unfortunately, the club historian seems to be blissfully unaware even that Mackenzie was involved in remodelling the Portland course so I wouldn't hold your breath on him finding a single letter from Wilson from 1912. I also wouldn't read too much into the exact wording of the artilce as I think the writer is providing a second hand report and therefore Wilsons involvement at Merion (assuming he provided an explanation of it, and again a look at his letter of introduction would be good to see) could easily have been misinterpreted.

Niall

Bryan - once again, thanks for posting this article for me. I really should get upto speed with this technology thing.

[Bryan Izatt]

Why is everyone naturally assuming that the writer of the article is talking about Merion? He used the phrase, "He belongs to the club where the holes are constructed exactly similar to the most famous holes in this country..."

We know that Wilson was there representing Merion, but is it possible that the WRITER of the article thought he was talking about NGLA? To me, that would be the reasonable assumption as it had already been written about in journals in the U.K. whereas no design articles of Merion have yet to be found from that time. The readership would have been very aware of NGLA; I don't believe that is the case with Merion, and yet he wriote in a manner that suggests his audience has that familiarity.

...................
 

Phiip,

The same thought, that the writer was thinking of NGLA, went through my head.  But, we don't know based on this article.  What amazes me is that we seem to find flaws or errors in nearly every article that gets posted about Merion.  Was that the state of reporting in those days - to get the story consistently partly wrong.  The writer couldn't even get the initial right, "J" instead of "I".  Did he mishear, or more likely did he misread a card or introductory letter?

Jeff,

I can parse all I like.  It's a way to fit in here.   

More seriously, do you want to form a consortium of the interested to fund a student to go to Washington and search for the topo?  Wouldn't be too expensive and might yield some independent information.

[tlavin]

Boy, I wish I could enlist Feherty to fart all over this asinine thread...

[Jeff_Brauer]

Terry,

The last few days are about new information.  All is well again, temporarily!

Bryan,

IF we did that, would the mechanism be via the golf club atlas donations section? Or is there some DC area forumer who could donate some time to figure out where this stuff is.  Once the Oakley file is found, my guess is that the topo map would be the biggest, folded document there and he might be in and out in a few minutes.  It appears many of the letters are already scanned and copied.  My question is, who did the scanning, where, and what did they see in the way of maps?

[Tom MacWood]

Jeff
I don't believe CBM coined the term golf architect.

In the P&O letters there is a letter from Colt to Wilson in the early 20s, asking him when he will return to the UK and see his new place. That he is now living in a small Berkshire village that he believes Wilson would really like. Colt was living near Sunningdale in 1912.

Niall
Merion had holes constructed etc etc. Everyone knew who was responsible for the NGLA; I don't believe the author would be confused.  The source is mostly likely Wilson, who else would have the level detail regarding the itinerary.

There was a short article in Golf Monthly in the timeframe mentioning Wilson's mission abroad. In the article it compared Wilson's trip to CBM's trip in 1906. In that article Wilson is referred to as Hugh G. Wilson.

[DMoriarty]

Thanks very much for the article Bryan and Niall.    This should clear up some confusion regarding some of the courses Wilson visited.  Niall, what newspaper?  Thanks again!  

A few comments and a clarification . . .

- Notably, the apparent source of the information was Hugh Wilson himself.  Who else there would have been able to speak to what happened at Merion?  Seems likely that the source was Wilson himself, but is there evidence that demonstrates that he traveled alone?  I've never been any mention of him traveling accompanied.  So far as I can tell, the travel manifest does not include anyone else that was associated with Merion or American golfThe article provides similar information from others in the Philadelphia press; many (or most) of the holes were based on famous holes abroad.    And this again raises the obvious question as to how Wilson could have designed holes modeled after the famous holes abroad when he had never even seen those holes?  Without wanting to argue the point, I guess he could have learned of them from M&W and built copies of their copies.  The original versions were considered weak weren't they, that were later (after he returned from the UK) remodeled.Findlay considered the Alps weak, and later he seemed to like it, so something could have been changed or added on that hole, but with this exception I don't know if the holes themselves were considered "weak."   Some of the bunkers hadn't been added yet.
. . .

Hugh Wilson was not listed as one of the original members of NGLA in CBM's Jan. 4, 1912 Statement to the members.    Plus, the article indicates that he was over there learning how to keep the holes on his course as much like the originals as possible.   I don't think it reasonable to assume he was there to learn how to keep NGLA's holes like the originals, nor any other course's except for Merion's.

Not absolutely certain of the Troon layout at that time but off the top of my head I think that Fernie made the alterations a couple of years previously (1909 ?) which gave us the far loop. ie. new Postage Stamp 8th hole and the Railway Hole (11th), both of which are mentioned in the article. The article also refers to the Sandhill bunker but not sure what that feature was/is, the dune in front of the 10th tee perhaps ?

[JESII]

David,

I'd agree that with you that the writer is clearly talking about Wilson's desire to keep the holes at Merion as like the originals as can be...the future tense of the end of that sentence "kept as like the originals as green architects can MAKE them"


As to the "template" holes...I know you have infinitely more information than I do on the subject both at Merion and elsewhere but I have to ask about the present 3rd hole and it's likeness to other Redan's...other than a large penal bunker guarding the low corner of the green (which may be enough, I don't know) does it have anything in common with the accepted characteristics of that time?

We spent a minute or two a couple months ago discussing some of the features of the current 6th...is now the right time to discuss its similarities to The Road Hole?

[TEPaul]

"It seems as if Wilson was focused what to do next, and this fits well with the theory that Wilson's predominate design contribution occurred after his trip abroad."


It doesn't fit well with that theory if one considers these words from the Wilson report to the MCC board of 4/19/1911: "Your committee desires to report that AFTER laying out numerous different courses on the new land, they went down to the National course...." We know from a separate Wilson letter they went to NGLA in the beginning of March 1911 and so they laid out numerous different courses on the new land before that. Before March 1911 was a couple of months before anything was built at Ardmore for the East course so it is both undeniable and an unavoidable fact that Wilson and his committee did a whole lot of routing (and design?) work BEFORE Wilson took a trip abroad and not JUST AFTER he did.

This is the way Merion reads and understands that source material anyway, and well they should as any logical and commonsensical person who read it would too.

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