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Scott Warren

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Best courses under 6000 yards
« on: May 08, 2009, 10:25:33 AM »
Elsewhere this morning I was faced with this quote by a low-teens handicapper to another golfer of the same skill level who was tossing up between joining a longer course or a shorter course:

Quote
Any course short of 6000 yards off the tips, at our handicap is a not going to satifsy to be honest... If you want to flatter yourself (or you are a higher handicapper looking to improve) play the shorter course... Join the more difficult course, enjoy and rise to the challenge.

Once I dislodged the apple muffin from my throad, I started wondering what the best sub-6000y courses are.

My initial thinking and searching left me with Swinley Forest and Merion West atop a list of a few notables. What else challenges them?

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re: Best courses under 6000 yards
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2009, 10:59:54 AM »
West Cornwall, Cavendish come immediately to mind. No doubt others will in due course.

Peter Wagner

Re: Best courses under 6000 yards
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2009, 12:59:31 PM »
Scott,

At 5,970 yards I'll submit Los Angeles CC South to this list.  Fun course!



Mark Pearce

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Re: Best courses under 6000 yards
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2009, 02:03:12 PM »
Crail Balcomie should be on the list.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Steve Wilson

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Re: Best courses under 6000 yards
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2009, 02:06:35 PM »
Brora if I recall the yardage correctly. 
Some days you play golf, some days you find things.

I'm not really registered, but I couldn't find a symbol for certifiable.

"Every good drive by a high handicapper will be punished..."  Garland Bailey at the BUDA in sharing with me what the better player should always remember.

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best courses under 6000 yards
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2009, 02:25:22 PM »
Boat of Garten, at under 5,900 yds from the tips, is a tough course. Very tight driving, smallish greens, and lots of undulating terrain and uphill approach shots.

David Federman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best courses under 6000 yards
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2009, 02:33:43 PM »
Nagshead Golf Links comes in at just under 6000 from the regular tees, if I remember correctly. Whole lot of fun, expecially when wind comes in off the water.

Jamie Barber

Re: Best courses under 6000 yards
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2009, 03:16:49 PM »
New Zealand in the UK is highly regarded. Interesting locker rooms too I'm told

Stan Dodd

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best courses under 6000 yards
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2009, 04:17:54 PM »
Pacific Grove could lead in fun under 6000 yards.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Best courses under 6000 yards
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2009, 05:20:51 PM »
I think Swinley Forest is actually 6,001 yards ... don't know if they were fudging or not.

Several good candidates have already been mentioned.  Detroit Golf Club (South) is another.

My question:  Has anyone seen a course built since 1960 which belongs on this thread?

Mark Bourgeois

Re: Best courses under 6000 yards
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2009, 06:14:39 PM »
Aren't you supposed to be building one in the Caribbean?

More broadly, don't you have to bump the yardage on post-1960 (and probably bump again if post ~1999) in order to get true comps? When Swinley was built 6,000 didn't mean what it does today, did it?

Mark

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best courses under 6000 yards
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2009, 06:35:11 PM »
Since we are talking about guys who care about yardage I will assume we are talking the tips.  If this is the case, my favourite course under 6000 yards is without a shadow of a doubt Kington.  How much of a test it is (I assume this is what folks mean by "good") largely depends on the wind, but regardless its always fun and certainly unique. 

I would second Mark's West Cornwall nomination.  I would also second the nomination for New Zealand. 

Another course which I have a soft spot for is Gullane #3.  I don't think it is quite in the class of the above three, but its still worth a go if you are in the area and don't want to fork out for some of the more expensive (practically every other course in the area!) options.  Painswick is another course which isn't quite in the class of the above, but surely wouldn't disappoint.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

John Moore II

Re: Best courses under 6000 yards
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2009, 06:56:01 PM »
Does it count if the course is at elevation?  Pinecrest Golf Club in Idaho Falls is 6400, but at 4700 feet elevation. I felt like it was a very fine golf course and certainly the best one that I have played at that short a distance. For someone who hits the ball as far as I do, its somewhat hard for me to be challenged of courses that length, but I found this course both (somewhat) challenging and highly enjoyable.

Lyne Morrison

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best courses under 6000 yards
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2009, 08:44:42 PM »

Scott - it's an interesting topic.

Frank Thomas reported in his Growing the Game Survey Report that most male golfers prefer to play courses between 5800 and 6600 yards. Not surprisingly the study found that the preferred course length increased as the handicap decreased. Only 45% of 0-9hcp men favoured courses longer than 6600 yards while those with higher handicaps preferred course length in the order of 6000 yards. For the average 15hcp male golfer - the suggested course length is 6100 yards.

On the flip side, lower than average h'cap women find courses in the 5500 yard range most manageable, while average women golfers (hcp 28) favour a shorter yardage of 5000 yards.

The report highlights the fact that while golfers want to be challenged, the challenge must be appropriate to ability for the game to be enjoyable. It also points to the fact that many golfers overestimate their abilities, play courses that are inappropriate for their skill level and over estimate the distance their ball travels ... as low teen - close to average golfers, perhaps your mates fall into this group??  ;)

In any case, the key word that I have picked up in the posts above is that well thought out courses around the 6000yd mark represent - fun - and that cant be a bad thing.

Cheers - Lyne


Mike_Cocking

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best courses under 6000 yards
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2009, 08:53:31 PM »
Hi Tom,

Whilst not a new course our redesign of RACV's Country Club in Healesville (in the heart of the Yarra Valley) is a tick under 4900m!  Its the shortest 'proper' course I've ever seen.  

Steep ground, lots of par three's and short fours and an interesting set of green complexes with some pretty bold contours means its no push-over and a change in pin position alters the strategy on many holes off the tee so it changes from day to day.

If someone can let me know how to post photos I'll put a few on.  We're just finishing the practice green and 1st tees but the rest of the course is either in play or fairly advanced through the grow-in.  

Mike

RSLivingston_III

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Re: Best courses under 6000 yards
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2009, 12:52:49 AM »
Kilspindie.
But only if the wind is blowing.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2009, 01:13:43 AM by Ralph_Livingston »
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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best courses under 6000 yards
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2009, 12:58:49 AM »
Hands down the toughest short course i've played is Indian Canyon.  Its just barely 6000 yards yet provides a tought challenge with its greens and slopes. so

Jon Spaulding

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best courses under 6000 yards
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2009, 09:05:45 AM »
Claremont CC in Oakland is the best one I can think of in CA.

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php?topic=28326.0

Already mentioned LACC South is quite good as well. Hopefully they'll move ahead with Gil's proposed renovation once the work on the North course is complete. Unfortunately I have never photographed it.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2009, 09:17:35 AM by Jon Spaulding »
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Don Hyslop

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best courses under 6000 yards
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2009, 10:15:55 AM »
In Dartmouth, Nova Scotia there is a 5554 yd course designed by Donald Ross that is a true gem. Here is a description of the holes.
 http://brightwood.memberstatements.com/tour/tours.cfm?tourid=66648
« Last Edit: May 09, 2009, 10:42:44 AM by Don Hyslop »
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Tim Liddy

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Re: Best courses under 6000 yards
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2009, 11:00:52 AM »
I know, pure marketing, but I will submit my remodel of Princess Anne Country Club in Virginia Beach, Virginia. It can be stretched to 6,000 yards with back tees and back pins - and a fun golf course to play with a classic influence.
Golf Hole #15

Chuck Brown

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best courses under 6000 yards
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2009, 03:36:59 PM »
Detroit Golf Club - South
Par 68
5967 yards
Best <6000 yards in the midwest, I'd think.  I'm curious; are there any forward tees at Shoreacres in Chicago that are <6000 yards?  Maidstone?  This exercise could get very tricky if we counted forward tees.  DGC South's brilliance is not so much in the fact that it is an old, short course, but rather in the fact that at Par 68, it is a great, full-blooded, interesting and fully valid course that merely has some Par 4's in the place of property-gobbling Par 5's.

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best courses under 6000 yards
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2009, 12:34:18 AM »
Cape Arundel...5900ish.

Franklin Park here in Boston is about 6015...
« Last Edit: May 10, 2009, 05:14:03 PM by Brad Tufts »
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best courses under 6000 yards
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2009, 04:46:35 AM »
I'll second Mark's suggestion of Cavendish. Anyone finding themselves in Manchester or the Peak District really should go and play this great Alister MacKenzie course, 5,721 yards from the back to a par of 68, and certainly a fine challenge.

Cheers,

James
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Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best courses under 6000 yards
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2009, 06:43:17 AM »
Crail Balcomie should be on the list.

Agree with Mark + I believe Brora is just over 6,100 - but close enough to add (what's in 40m)  ;D

I'll add Windermere

Gary Slatter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best courses under 6000 yards
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2009, 06:54:15 AM »
In Dartmouth, Nova Scotia there is a 5554 yd course designed by Donald Ross that is a true gem. Here is a description of the holes.
 http://brightwood.memberstatements.com/tour/tours.cfm?tourid=66648
Don, thanks for mentioning Brightwood, I used to play the Moosehead Open there. For some reason I did not recall it was that short, just have great memories of bouncing my ball around a really fun course - Butch O'Hearn was the local boy, great game.  Played with Moe Norman and Gary Pitchford there, loved it. Exactly opposite of TPC Sawgrass, and more fun.
Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

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