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CJ Carder

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Re: How good is TPC Sawgrass?
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2009, 05:55:07 PM »
Relatively demanding off the tee, however.

Michael - I'd be interested to hear why you think this.  I played it twice in September and I was actually surprised at how generous some of the landing areas were for the average player.  Maybe it's because I'm used to playing a fairly tight course as my home course, but I didn't find the tee shots too difficult except for the occasional weak push into one of the vertical fairway bunkers.  Now, I say generous landing areas, but that also means that if I hit the fairway, I'm happy, regardless of angle into the flag.  If you're trying to hit the proper side of the fairway for the best angle, then I'd agree it's fairly demanding.

As I asked .....  For those of you that have played the course, how you measure the green speed of the day of your round(s) and the speed at the TPC?

Carl - the two days I played them, I was following behind the AJGA Players tournament and they were pretty quick - at least in the 10.5 - 11 neighborhood.  They were certainly fast enough to make you think about where you wanted to miss or leave a recovery shot.

What I like about it is that hazards frequently cross the ideal line of play.  Add to that the fact that some of the longer hazards are angled, and the course becomes even more strategic.

I totally agree.  Do I risk the longer tee ball for a better angle / shorter club into the green or do I play it safe and wind up with a bit of an awkward angle and / or longer club in?  Ben commented above that such a decision is more "heroic" than "strategic" and I was argue that it's only "heroic" if you can continuously execute an accurate and long tee ball.  For the best players in the world, that might ordinarily be fairly "simple" but Dye counteracts some of this with the tee placement and angled hazards that Matthew mentioned.  All else being equal, execution is a key component of achieving a desired strategy.

Mike Hendren

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Re: How good is TPC Sawgrass?
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2009, 11:06:12 AM »
CJ, the first two holes are visually claustrophobic from the tee but in reality reasonable generous.  On the other hand it is holes that are not visually constrained that are in reality relatively tight due to the mounding which sports a pretty healthy growth of bermuda - notably the 4th and 14th (Toms had to pitch out sideways from the mounds right of the 14th on Saturday).  I would also cite the 6th and 10th as being very demanding form the tee with long fairway bunkers down the left side and trees encroaching in the landing area down the right. 

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Philippe Binette

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Re: How good is TPC Sawgrass?
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2009, 11:21:20 AM »
all I know is that the angles are phenomenal... forces the players to work the ball with all those sliding holes

TPC Sawgrass and Riviera seem to demand more of the tee and maybe for that reason; two courses where Tiger have a hard time winnig.

tlavin

Re: How good is TPC Sawgrass?
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2009, 11:49:09 AM »
I'll echo the comments about the difficulty of the golf course as a result of the ideal angle of play is concerned.  In this respect, it is very reminiscent of Butler National, where the angle of play factor is the most demanding that I've ever played.  I also agree that if you don't bite off too much in terms of tee box when you are playing, the golf course can be a whole bunch of fun, despite being quite demanding in many places.  I think the golf course is surely major-worthy, although there doesn't seem to be a way that it would ever host a major, since it has the Players in May.  It is intriguing, however, to think what a USGA set-up would be like.  Those greens were really crunchy yesterday and didn't hold a lot of good shots.  I think it would be worthy of a US Open, if they could convert a couple 5's to 4's.

Final point, it's a great place to go on a golf trip.  Stay at the Marriott and play a couple rounds there and on the other course they have.  I would also suggest playing the original Sawgrass Country Club.  I played it once and I remember it being very tough, very windy and very interesting for a Florida golf course.

Will Peterson

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Re: How good is TPC Sawgrass?
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2009, 11:53:31 AM »
I was fortunate to play Sawgrass in the winter of 2005 about a six weeks before the Players.  They were building all of the stands, so it was very exciting to play with the scoreboards and bleachers up.  Walking through the tunnel to get to the first with our caddies was a thrill.

The course was in great shape and the greens were very smooth but not very quick.  (I did live in Jacksonville for a year, and was told that the course is not in good shape over the summer.)  We did play during a week of cold weather, so I attribute the green speed to that.  I found the course difficult, but a lot of fun to play.  It is the most visually intimidating golf course I have ever seen.  On most tees all you see is sand and water with a bit of green that looks too small to possibly hit.  In reality, the fairways are ample and most of the hazards are not in play, espcially for lower handicappers.  I can not imagine what goes through the minds of high handicap players on many of those tees.  I felt that the course required a considerable amount of strategy, although some of it forced to one or two options.  The green complexes were difficult, exciting, and varied.  The penalty for missing a green could be severe and the recovery shots required varied widely.

My biggest complaint was with the caddies.  Both my father and I had subpar experiences.  When asked for help, they not only seemed to have never played the game, but also as if they had never set foot on the property.  The advice that was offered on tees seem to be read directly from a tip sheet or yardage book.  When asked about reads, they would answer "I don't know" or "whatever you think."  The worst incident happen on 17.  It was playing 135 with no wind and the pin on the back.  I hit a perfect little punch 9 that was all over the pin.  It barely cleared the water and ended up on the front edge.  My father hit next, and struck a solid 8 and bounced off of the boards short of the green.  Both of us were perplexed with the results of shots that seem to be ideal.  As we walked across the bridge to the green, my caddie looked at us and said "this hole plays about a club long."  So you think this is the time to tell us that piece of information?

I enjoyed playing the course, and would like to return.  It seems to be a course that becomes better the more times you play it.  From the right tees, it is playable for everyone, eventhough it is quite intimidating.

Jeff_Lewis

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Re: How good is TPC Sawgrass?
« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2009, 11:52:38 PM »
Is it the most strategic course played on the tour? Perhaps.  Of course, 17 is not strategic. It's a "hit it here" hole.  No decision, just pure execution, but for me it works, IN THIS PLACE, FOR THIS TOURNAMENT.  I would not want to see that hole on another course anywhere, but in the proper context here, between the enormously strategic 16th and the slightly cliched but nonetheless terrifying 18th, its a winner.

John Kirk

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Re: How good is TPC Sawgrass?
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2009, 12:39:25 AM »
The best lesson to me of TPC is its emphasis on shot values. It places a challenge on tee shots and approach shots with less emphasis on putting, a different approach than the C&C concept of defending par at the green. I can understand why Ben Crenshaw has never liked the golf course. This type of golf course design can be tedious for the average club golfer but a joy for the better player who can challenge his shot making skills.

Very astute.

My comment is about Henrik Stenson, who played the best final round in PGA golf so far this year.  Great win for Fanny Sunesson as well, who kept her player calm and collected.  What a great performance and exhibition of ball striking.

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