Are Pull/Push Carts That Bad?

[Roger Wolfe]

We recently relocated our entire bag room to make room for the members to store 75 push carts.  I remember the perception in the past was that once you bought a push cart you were halfway to the nursing home.  This reminds me of the old opinion that using a 7 wood instead of a 3 iron was humiliating (Rich Beem changed that at Hazeltine).  A popular practice in Charlotte is for the club to purchase a small fleet of push carts, ban the personal carts, then charge the members the equivalent of a nine hole cart fee to use one.  You either walk and carry your bag for free, walk and rent a push cart, or rent a regular cart.  This is the case at "caddie" and "non-caddie" clubs.  Has anyone else seen this trend at their club(s)?

[Ally Mcintosh]

When I grew up in Scotland, everyone carried their bags... Maybe that was just through the eyes of a youth who didn't worry about back pain etc... But I still believe that a good number of people carry their bags in Scotland... The rest use a pull-trolley (non-motor) and some of the elderly use the motorised push-trolley...

However, when I moved to Irleland, I noticed that very few carried their bags. On top of this, there didn't seem to be a stigma about the under-40's using a motorised push-cart (as in Scotland)...

[Brent Hutto]

If someone's going to charge me $15-$30 for a trolley to put my clubs on it had better be a power one. Sounds to me like just another way for a club with a good many walking golfers to extract more money from them, I guess you do what you've got to do in today's wintry economic climate. I shoulder my bag a little more than half the time, use my three-wheeler otherwise and if it were costing me real money (say, more than a few dollars a round) I'd just carry it on my shoulder all the time unless I were doing 36 two days in a row or something like that.

I'm just down I-77 from you and have only encountered one place locally that doesn't (or didn't) allow push carts. I joined Crickentree one summer a good many years ago and if you walked there they made you carry your bag. It was pretty obviously intended to "encourage" members to take carts instead, non-members were required to use carts (semi-private club with a majority of rounds by daily-fee players). After I'd been there three months they banned walking altogether, apparently because there were a couple dozen of us who all joined about that time and walked/carried every round. They thought that would force us to take carts but I think most of us just quit, I know I did.

While a few old-school private clubs will maintain their stigma against the push cart for another generation or so, I think generally any restriction on push carts is increasingly transparent as simply an attempt to "force" people into playing in a way that's more lucrative for somone whether it be carts or caddies.

P.S. Our club already charges walkers a $3/round fee to which I have no objection, surely it is meet for those of us who use the course a lot to chip in a bit extra in addition to our dues.

[Stephen Britton]

Our course just allowed pull/push carts last year. We don't have any rental, you must either store or bring your own.  Initially we charged a $5 trail fee although this year we have dropped the $5 trail fee and allowed members to pull/push a cart for free.

From the Superintendents stand point I love them, the more people I can get out of an Ez-Go to start walking the less wear and tear on the course. From the Pros stand point he will lose cart revenue from people switching riding to walking (although our course has always had a lot of walkers). Some members have commented on them looking "muni" although introducing the pull/push carts was VERY popular amongst 90% of our membership.

I grew up in Australia were everyone pulls a buggy so there is nothing "muni" about it to me..

[Cory Lewis]

At least 300 of our members own pull/push carts and another 100 to 150 rent them from us when they play.  Of course the majority of our members walk, and the majority of those members are over the age of 50, so simple demographics might explain why we have so many push carts.   The fee to rent a pull cart is 1/4 of the fee for a motorized cart.

I would be interested to hear from a superintendent whether the big three wheel push carts do any harm when it's wet.  It never made sense to me that on really wet days where it's cart path only, we still allow the big three wheeled push carts on the course.  I can always see the tracks from those carts later on in the day. 

[Brent Hutto]

I grew up in Australia were everyone pulls a buggy so there is nothing "muni" about it to me..

You know, a theory just occurred to me about how this "muni" association with pull carts came into being. Maybe there was a point in time when one of the distinctions between private clubs and public courses was that you walked with a caddie at a private course and walked but carried or pulled your bag at a "muni". If so, that meme survives as the inversion of it's original connotation. It started out where having a caddie was a mark of superiority, now that virtually nobody uses caddies the pull carts serves as a marker for inferiority. With "superiority" and "inferiority" purely a social construct among those who like to feel superior.

Or maybe it comes from some other long-forgotten social hierarchy. I wasn't alive or playing golf that long ago.

It never made sense to me that on really wet days where it's cart path only, we still allow the big three wheeled push carts on the course.  I can always see the tracks from those carts later on in the day.

Do you also see footprints in those same wet areas at the end of the day? There are places on most courses around here where after a couple days of hard rain anything heavier than wet leaf leaves a mark in the mud.

[Joe Hancock]

P.S. Our club already charges walkers a $3/round fee to which I have no objection, surely it is meet for those of us who use the course a lot to chip in a bit extra in addition to our dues.

Man, would I have an objection to that. I know it's only $3, but in principle, if I pay dues, then there shouldn't be another fee to use the facility. I'd have to ask them to up the dues a bit for everyone, and then leave me to decide how I want to get around the golf course.

I just don't understand a lot of the private club culture. I'm probably wrong about this too.

Joe

[Anthony Gray]

  I have one because my lower back problems do not allow me tocarry my clubs like I want.

  Anthony

[Cristian]

Anything that keeps regular carts off a golf course (and more importantly cart-paths) has to be a positive. However I hate to use them myself; on a flat course I do not really need one, and on a hilly course I keep letting the buggy fall over near slopes next to tees /greens etc...

Limit the no. of clubs to 7 or 8 and almost everybody can carry....

[Joe Hancock]

Limit the no. of clubs to 7 or 8 and almost everybody can carry....

Exactly what I have done. As a bonus, the shot creativity is much more necessary too!

Joe

[Dan Herrmann]

Golfweek recently ran an article...  IIRC, it said that the tricycle type carts are being used in college golf now. 

Seeing how the stand cart started in the college ranks, this could be a positive development.

[Brent Hutto]

Joe,

Our club has sort of two cultures coexisting, like a lot of clubs I suspect. There are those of us who are there to play golf and those of us who are there for the social benefits of being part of the club. And of course many people are both, as well. While it initially struck me as annoying to be charged that little fee for playing the truth is nearly half the expenses of the club go to maintaining the course so in effect the fee serves to charge the former group (golfers) a bit more every month than the latter (socializers). In effect my dues are about 5-8% higher than a member who never plays a round of golf.

BTW, when I shoulder my bag I usually have 9-10 clubs but when I use the three-wheeler I go all the way up to my full set of 12. I also keep my bottle of divot mix only half full when I'm carrying, the full bottles just weigh the bag down like no tomorrow.

[Brent Hutto]

  I have one because my lower back problems do not allow me tocarry my clubs like I want.

  Anthony

From your avatar photo you look mighty young to be having back problems.

[Anthony Gray]

  I have one because my lower back problems do not allow me tocarry my clubs like I want.

  Anthony

From your avatar photo you look mighty young to be having back problems.

  That is the result of performance enhancers.

   Anthony



 

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Merion West(but not the East) has a small fleet of yellow Sun Mountain 3 wheelers available for rental at $10 for those members and guests who prefer not to carry.

[PThomas]

how anyone can think that pull carts are not "acceptable" but electric driving carts are...well., when i die and get up to heaven that is one of the first things i am going to ask the Big Guy to explain to me

[W.H. Cosgrove]

I carried for years until the bugaboo of a bad back prevented me from comfortably playing while carrying. While the idea of a power cart seemed a disaster, I was running out of options.  Then those lovely folks at Sun mountain released the Speed Cart. 

I am still on my feet.  I might add the nursing home is further away while I still walk.  From a health stand point, its the riders that are in trouble.  Get up and walk.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Here's the Golfweek article:

http://www.golfweek.com/story/push-carts-for-your-game-031609

[Mark Manuel]

I have used a three wheel cart for a few years, carried before the cart and still do carry in the winter when the weather makes the cart hard to push.

Two thoughts.  

Walking does make golf exercise and typically helps to shut people up who state otherwise.  

Modern course design that puts 500 yards plus between green and tee has rendered this discussion moot for a lot of clubs.  And that sucks.

[Bill_McBride]

A couple of years ago I was at the Valley Club in Santa Barbara, which is about as exclusive as it gets.  One of the members was in his Saturday game wearing shorts and pushing his Sun Mountain (or maybe one of the club's, they let you use them for free) ----- Freddy Couples.  It was pretty cool.

Lots of people use them at my club in Pensacola, the club gets revenue by charging a separate monthly storage fee but there are no other charges.

[Dan Boerger]

Forget the stigma -- they make loads of sense.

[Warwick Loton]

I've grown up with pull/push-carts. Rarely see people carrying, and motorised carts are reserved for amputees and those in the 90s.

So, for those of you who carry, how many sticks do you normally haul around?

[Scott Warren]

Push/pull buggies are par for the course in Australia. Most people have their own and bring them to the course in their car. Clubs also have them and will usually rent them for $3-5.

I would say growing up 90% of golfers used them and the other 10% rode or carried, carrying is more popular now (as is riding), but a very high % of golfers would still use a buggy.

Wow, I'm amazed they are so "alien" in the USA... I guess that explains why so many more people ride over there?

Warwick: I carry and have 12-13 clubs on board. I know literally dozens of people who carry a full bag on long and hilly tracks without any drama. Including my 53yo dad.

[PThomas]

motorised carts are reserved for amputees and those in the 90s.

thats a bit harsh, no?

[Lou_Duran]

Push carts do carry a stigma in the SW, plus they are a threat to the important revenue streams of motorized carts.  With the extreme weather in this part of the country, riding is the norm.  The cost structure of the cart fleet and supporting infrastructure is highly fixed, and even if push carts only canabalize 10% of rounds, say 5,000 rounds a year, that's probably close to a $70,000 impact on the bottom line.  Charging a trail fee for walkers would meet some resistance as Joe H noted.

Riders complain of slow play and a lack of "support" of the club's operations by walkers.   Unfortunately, these charges have some validity.  Unless walkers are willing to pony up via higher dues or trail fees and accept responsibility for fast play, a strong bias toward riding carts will continue to prevail.  I don't like it, but the laws of physics and economics are not subject to change.