[Carl Johnson]

Scott Weersing's post "Chambers Bay GC report" with wonderful photos, including photos of trains adjacent to the course, drew a comment from Pat Craig -- "How neat it is that it has a active railroad running through the course" -- and another from Charlie Goerges -- "I love the train tracks.  You can't buy that kind of provenance."

Hypothetically, say you had a classic course, private club, maybe a Ross course, built in the 1920's right next to railroad tracks paralleling almost the entire length of one hole, but visible from others.  Today the course is urban, and the tracks very active.  Would you try to screen the tracks with bushes and trees so trains couldn't be seen, or try to keep the view of the passing freight as open as possible?  Visually screened or not, assume you're going to hear the trains.  You'll know they are there in any case.  Oh, also assume that this is a "golfer's club" that allows you to change shoes in the parking lot.

Admittedly influenced by my experiences on several courses in Ayrshire, I'd open the view in this sort of situation.  I'd like to know how others would come down on this issue.  What are the pros and cons?

 N.B.  Hypothetical course bears a striking resemblance to the recently renovated Carolina Golf Club in Charlotte.

[Mike_Cirba]

Trains are beautiful and so ingrained in the early history of the game that I think they should be HIGHLIGHTED.

[David Neveux]

I agree with Mike and think that the train in full view is very cool looking.  I think Olympia Fields (North) has a train track running adjacent to the first hole, If I'm not mistaken you can see the trains passing as they roll through. 

[Norbert P]

"Everybody loves the sound of a train in the distance
Everybody thinks its true"

P Simon

[mike_beene]

Love trains.Wouldn't the ancients be shocked at our ho-hum reaction to planes and our general fascination of trains.

[Mike Wagner]

Not only is it extremely cool at Chambers, but it doesn't honk or yell "fore!"

[Jeff_Brauer]

Love trains!

My home club has an industrial spur running right through it and once a day a short train trundles through the course.

[Carl Johnson]

Not only is it extremely cool at Chambers, but it doesn't honk or yell "fore!"

What if it did honk?  Would that change your mind?  My hypothetical train sounds its horn at a road crossing adjacent to the course.  You're going to hear that whether you can see the train or not.  "No noise" is not an option in my hypothetical case.  And, the train is not going to go away.

[Cliff Hamm]

Some pix of my favorite train hole - the second at Shennecossett in Connecticut.  Maybe the only one I have ever played.

View from the tee - green is about 380 away.



View from the fairway. Green is significantly more above fairway than it appears in the picture. Train tracks are barely visible to the right of the stop sign.



View from closer, which clearly shows the tracks.



View from left side bunker which shows the back to front nature of the green.  Inevitably I have gone over the green leaving a tough chip back to a very quick green.



Very fun hole on a very fun course.

[Neil_Crafter]

Of course Royal Adelaide is the one most noticed here in Australia, with the course bisected by an active passenger train line. No freight though. Line is not really screened so the views and sounds of the trains is a nice part of the course's overall ambience and charm.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Jake: "How often does the train come by?"
Elwood: "So often you won't even notice."

[Charlie Goerges]

Mark, that's exactly what I was thinking.

[Ryan DeMay]

We have some pretty active tracks (at least one train per hour) approximately 50 yards from our second green (and about 100 feet from my office window).  And yes, the train does pass so often that it kind of adds the character of the golf course.

I'll snap a picture tomorrow and post it.

[J_ Crisham]

Scott Weersing's post "Chambers Bay GC report" with wonderful photos, including photos of trains adjacent to the course, drew a comment from Pat Craig -- "How neat it is that it has a active railroad running through the course" -- and another from Charlie Goerges -- "I love the train tracks.  You can't buy that kind of provenance."

Hypothetically, say you had a classic course, private club, maybe a Ross course, built in the 1920's right next to railroad tracks paralleling almost the entire length of one hole, but visible from others.  Today the course is urban, and the tracks very active.  Would you try to screen the tracks with bushes and trees so trains couldn't be seen, or try to keep the view of the passing freight as open as possible?  Visually screened or not, assume you're going to hear the trains.  You'll know they are there in any case.  Oh, also assume that this is a "golfer's club" that allows you to change shoes in the parking lot.

Admittedly influenced by my experiences on several courses in Ayrshire, I'd open the view in this sort of situation.  I'd like to know how others would come down on this issue.  What are the pros and cons?

Carl,  When I first read your desription of Ross and railroad tracks I thought you were describing Beverly CC in Chicago. We have tracks that run along our West perimiter. Train activity is quite frequent. The tracks run along parts of 3 holes on the front nine and  parts of 4 holes on the back nine. I feel that as time goes by over the years you just get used to the noise  and motion of the trains. We also have planes landing at Midway and ambulances on 87th street. Otherwise it is a nice quiet club.
                                                                      Jack

[Scott Weersing]

I would love to take a train that went past golf courses. The train track at Chambers Bay reminds me of the courses in England that have the tracks running next to them. But I would look for a tract of land next to tracks for a golf course? Probably not. But if you can get the land as a reclaimation project, then it might be a good deal.

There were not that many trains running by to make it a distraction.

I would rather have train tracks then next to a busy airport. Planes are really annoying. I remember all the jets flying into Lihue in Kauai.

But I don't want to make this into a airport vs train tracks thread.

[Stewart Abramson]

"But I don't want to make this into a airport vs train tracks thread."

So you don't want to talk about Airway Meadows near Saratoga, NY that has a landing strip between the 9th & 10th fairways? They stop play when a plaane is ctaking off or landing.

[Mike_Cirba]

Cobb's Creek has a SEPTA train that runs near the first tee, behind the 3rd green (seen here from the tee);




Then seen on the ridge behind the 3rd green...




It continues down the left side of 4 (not really visible) and then along the 5th, coming up close left and behind as seen in the following two pictures.




Having discovered the documented history of Cobb's Creek, the ubiquitous Joe Bausch searches on the horizon for new worlds to research.    

[Carl Johnson]

Scott Weersing's post "Chambers Bay GC report" with wonderful photos, including photos of trains . . . .

Carl,  When I first read your desription of Ross and railroad tracks I thought you were describing Beverly CC in Chicago. We have tracks that run along our West perimiter. Train activity is quite frequent. The tracks run along parts of 3 holes on the front nine and  parts of 4 holes on the back nine. I feel that as time goes by over the years you just get used to the noise  and motion of the trains. We also have planes landing at Midway and ambulances on 87th street. Otherwise it is a nice quiet club.
                                                                      Jack

No, that's not my hypothetical club, but sure sounds like it could be.  The major international airport near my hypothetical club is just slightly too far away to hear the planes -- the flight paths don't cross the course, either.  But, you sure see 'em.  Street traffic adjacent to the course is only moderate.  On the other hand, the nearby metal yard can get noisy when they're crushing cars and such.  The hypothetical members are quite used to all of this.  It's part of the wallpaper.

I really would rather focus on trains than the multidimensional planes, trains and automobiles issue, but can't help but noting that in my experience nothing beats the Royal Troon and old Prestwick courses (south of Glasgow) for the plane/train combination.  If you're interested, go to Google Maps and take a look at their locations relative to the train tracks and the Glasgow Prestwick International Airport.  The main northwest-southeast runway points directly at Troon's Old (Open Championship) and Portland courses.  The airport is essentially a freight airport with gigantic planes coming right over the course.  Ten and 11 on the Old Course get the best combined train-plane action.  As I recall, airport approach lights are virtually next to the 10 tee.

[Roger Wolfe]

On the other hand, the nearby metal yard can get noisy when they're crushing cars and such.  The hypothetical members are quite used to all of this.  It's part of the wallpaper.

The most interesting situation is when the metal yard is on fire.  Now that was something to see.  If I could ever figure out how to get a damn picture off my phone I would post it.

[Kalen Braley]

Indian Canyon in Spokane, WA,

Par 3 4th hole, (old 13th).  Played it once with a train coming thru and the noise was deafening.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Jack Nicklaus in his prime probably wouldn't even notice the train going by! I would be waving at the engineer, signaling for a horn blast and generally foaming at the mouth, with no real care whether I made the putt or not......

[Mark Bourgeois]

I thought you were a foamer only for HOs.

Either way, beats twitchers!

[Mark_Rowlinson]

As we know, the railways were a prime mover in the game in the UK in the late 19th/early 20th centuries. Two lines, still extant, stand out: the Ayrshire coast line past Troon and Prestwick; and the Lancashire coast line past West Lancs, Formby, S & A, Hillside and R Birkdale. There are great train moments, such as the lovely line between Maesdu and North Wales, especially when a preserved steam locomotive hauls a special over the line. There are also preserved lines in immediate proximity, such as at Sheringham and Boat of Garten. But, what of the lost lines? What about the old line alongside the 15th and 16th on the Old Course. Wouldn't they have been immeasurably better with 'Kettledrummel' and others hauling their two carriages from Leuchars Junction to St Andrews, whsitling just as you were about to start your downswing?

[Kalen Braley]

Forgot to add....several holes at Circling Raven.  The train tracks are visible from at least half the holes and you go under/over em 4 times.

Opening tee shot:



Here is the tee shot on par 3 3rd:



Approach to 5

[Damon Groves]

Oak Creek Golf Club in Irvine CA, a Tom Fabio course, has a train running through but in true Fabio fashion he hid it so as to keep the course pretty. Not seeing it tends to be a pain as you can't look ahead to see if it is coming so instead every now and then you get a little surprise in your backswing. I think it would have been cool for him to have let in run by in clear view.

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