[Jeff_Brauer]

All right, now I agree Fazio is a hack!

Given the long history of trains and golf, I would certainly have left it in plain view as RTJ did at Chambers Bay.  Besides my home club, both Highlands in Lincoln, NB and Sand Creek Station in Newton, KS are affected by tracks.

At SCS I tried to get the fw as close to the track as possilbe so it would play like some of the holes in Scotland.  The BNSF no likey and so its not quite what I envisioned.....

[Bill_McBride]

All right, now I agree Fazio is a hack!

Given the long history of trains and golf, I would certainly have left it in plain view as RTJ did at Chambers Bay.  Besides my home club, both Highlands in Lincoln, NB and Sand Creek Station in Newton, KS are affected by tracks.

At SCS I tried to get the fw as close to the track as possilbe so it would play like some of the holes in Scotland.  The BNSF no likey and so its not quite what I envisioned.....

What was the required setback?  I know the RR right of way is pretty wide, but could they require a deeper setback?

[Jeff_Brauer]

Bill,

The typical set back is a 100' ROW for single track main - 50's feet on each side. That would be close enough, but they wouldn't let the barb wire fence come down to really bring the tracks in play, fearing some golfer would get killed. (Truly a case of misplaced priorities, I tell ya!)

And, I wanted it even closer for my version of the Road Hole green while the railway was still running!

[Roger Wolfe]

As we know, the railways were a prime mover in the game in the UK in the late 19th/early 20th centuries.

This was also very true in the US, especially for Donald Ross.  Kris Spence once told me that when he was researching Ross courses and was out in the country in small towns in the Carolinas he would just look for the railroad tracks and invariably they would lead him to the golf course.  Carolina Golf Club and Pinehurst are just two examples.  Does anyone else know of any classic Ross courses with railroads running through or adjacent to the property?

[Brian_Ewen]

[Jeff_Brauer]

Roger,

I am not sure about how many Ross course have railroads through them, but I do recall that he advised against property being split by roads or railroads in "Golf Has Never Failed Me" so it must have been a common situation/problem in those days. I know most of the Chicago North Shore courses were along the railroads, as were Olympia Fields and Beverly to the south, although I don't know that the track near Beverly ever saw passenger service.

Given US suburbanization started early - the town of Riverside was laid out by Ohmstead before 1900 I believe, I wonder if golf was the main driver or just the need to commute to work downtown, so it was subdivisions that were the driver of getting golf courses by the tracks in the US.

[Mark Bourgeois]

As we know, the railways were a prime mover in the game in the UK in the late 19th/early 20th centuries.

This was also very true in the US, especially for Donald Ross.  Kris Spence once told me that when he was researching Ross courses and was out in the country in small towns in the Carolinas he would just look for the railroad tracks and invariably they would lead him to the golf course.  Carolina Golf Club and Pinehurst are just two examples.  Does anyone else know of any classic Ross courses with railroads running through or adjacent to the property?

Fascinating. Let me dredge up my ole standby, Mimosa Hills. Train runs right by. Ross was given a choice of sites and picked that one. No one mentioned to me the train as a reason, though.

Mark R, great stuff. There are stories back there involving cinders, yes? Something about golfers and / or buildings catching fire, maybe even a theory about cinders and turf maintenance.

Ranging farther afield, there is the role played by sleepers.

And coming to Darwin, his stories about the train to Rye - the tee shot on the 12th is across the old Camber Road - and to Aberdovey have cast what I hope is a permanent imprint upon my memory.

Mark

[Tim Bert]

I like the train tracks.

Vanderbilt Legends Club has a track tha runs alongside a couple holes. The track also bisects the South Course which can be a little annoying if you get stuck on the wrong side waiting to get to the next hole. Fortunately it is usually not a bullet train so you can run and cross if you hear it coming.

The track splitting the course makes for less than an ideal walk between holes. The transition is done 4 times. It is cumbersome but nothing so bad that it turns the course into a cart-riding course.

Topstone in CT has a short otherwise bland par 4 that is made slightly more interesting by the imposing OB tracks if you pull the driver and hang it out to the right. 

[Rich Goodale]

I can't let the mention of the old railway line from Leuchars to St. Andrews paralleling the 15th and 16th holes on the Old Course go by without reminding y'all that it used to be in play.  Braid famous took a 9 or something off the tracks to the right of the 16th in one of his Open wins (1905?).  Now that would be a hazard!

[Carl Johnson]

As we know, the railways were a prime mover in the game in the UK in the late 19th/early 20th centuries.

This was also very true in the US, especially for Donald Ross.  Kris Spence once told me that when he was researching Ross courses and was out in the country in small towns in the Carolinas he would just look for the railroad tracks and invariably they would lead him to the golf course.  Carolina Golf Club and Pinehurst are just two examples.  Does anyone else know of any classic Ross courses with railroads running through or adjacent to the property?

My post that started this off referred to a hypothetical course, for discussion purposes.  In fact, as Roger has correctly guessed, that course bears a striking resemblance to the recently renovated Carolina Golf Club (Ross, 1929) in Charlotte.  If I can figure out how to do, I'll try to post some photos of our train ambiance.

[Mike_Cirba]

On a thread about train tracks, I'd be remiss not to mention that the entrance to both Merion and Pine Valley cross tracks just as you're arriving at the club.

If you can drive over either of these without a quickening in your pulse as each respective course begins to come into view, you're probably already dead.

[Cliff Hamm]

Indeed Shennecossett is a Ross course.  In reading the posts this is the only course I have noted whereby the train tracks act as a hazard.  In this case like a creek.  Are there others where the tracks are part of the architectural design?

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Mike,

I'm surprised you didn't mention the trains adjacent to Cobbs Creek.

[Mike_Cirba]

Mike,

I'm surprised you didn't mention the trains adjacent to Cobbs Creek.

Steve,

Please see my pics on the preceding page! 

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Never mind.

If I can find the pic I took of the graffiti marked shelter near the tracks, I'll post it.

[tlavin]

But I don't want to make this into a airport vs train tracks thread.

At my home course, Beverly, we have planes, trains and ambulances.  We're on a landing pattern for Midway Airport, which is about six miles away, so we see and hear plenty of Southwest jets.  We're less than a mile from Little Company of Murder (Mary), the hospital where yours truly was born.  And we have a freight line that runs north and south along our western border, for a full mile.  The course itself has a busy thoroughfare on its east side and 87th street separates our front and back nine.

All of this audio clutter leads many to conclude that it is a noisy golf course, what with roaring jet engines, whining ambulances, clattering semi-trucks and the occasional uncoupling freight cars.  In truth, however, I had been a member for more than ten years before anybody used the noise as a potential negative.

In terms of trains, there is a rich history of the relationship between trains and golf courses, one borne of practicality, I suppose, in order to get the players to the outlying property.  I think it adds character to a golf course, as long as one doesn't have to wait for the train to pass to get to the next hole, which is a situation in the muni course just south of the Bev.

[PThomas]

But I don't want to make this into a airport vs train tracks thread.

At my home course, Beverly, we have planes, trains and ambulances.  We're on a landing pattern for Midway Airport, which is about six miles away, so we see and hear plenty of Southwest jets.  We're less than a mile from Little Company of Murder (Mary), the hospital where yours truly was born.  And we have a freight line that runs north and south along our western border, for a full mile.  The course itself has a busy thoroughfare on its east side and 87th street separates our front and back nine.

All of this audio clutter leads many to conclude that it is a noisy golf course, what with roaring jet engines, whining ambulances, clattering semi-trucks and the occasional uncoupling freight cars.  In truth, however, I had been a member for more than ten years before anybody used the noise as a potential negative.

In terms of trains, there is a rich history of the relationship between trains and golf courses, one borne of practicality, I suppose, in order to get the players to the outlying property.  I think it adds character to a golf course, as long as one doesn't have to wait for the train to pass to get to the next hole, which is a situation in the muni course just south of the Bev.

"despite" all of the aforementioned, all i know is that Beverly is a damn good golf course, so one should not really care about the trains, planes and automobiles!

[Anthony Gray]

  Isn't Prestwick hole 1 the best example of tracks in play

  Anthony

[Scott Warren]

A chap I played with yesterday was telling me of a course on the northern French coast in an idyllic setting far from anything that could bother you. He said it was the most peaceful course he'd known - until he was just starting his downswing on a tee shot and the Paris-bound EuroStar train came fizzing out of the Channel Tunnel at 190mph (300km/h) less than 50m away with a quick blast of the horn for good measure

[tlavin]

A chap I played with yesterday was telling me of a course on the northern French coast in an idyllic setting far from anything that could bother you. He said it was the most peaceful course he'd known - until he was just starting his downswing on a tee shot and the Paris-bound EuroStar train came fizzing out of the Channel Tunnel at 190mph (300km/h) less than 50m away with a quick blast of the horn for good measure

Awesome story.

[Art Roselle]

Other than the part about becoming urban, it also sounds a lot like Camden CC in South Carolina, which is either a Travis or a Ross course, depending on whom you ask.  The tracks really parallel the 14th hole, without any real buffer.  You can hit a 650 mile tee shot, if you can perfectly hook your drive into a passing coal car.

[Carl Johnson]

Other than the part about becoming urban, it also sounds a lot like Camden CC in South Carolina, which is either a Travis or a Ross course, depending on whom you ask.  The tracks really parallel the 14th hole, without any real buffer.  You can hit a 650 mile tee shot, if you can perfectly hook your drive into a passing coal car.

Art, in case you haven't picked it up yet, the urban course in my hypothetical is Carolina Golf Club in Charlotte, a recently renovated Ross course near downtown.  Camden has a great reputation in this area and I hope to visit some day.

[Brad Tufts]

How about CC of Greenfield in MA?

There is one holes on the back nine...14 or 15, that is a par five using the railroad bed as the boundary hazard along the left...ala Talking Stick #2.

I think they keep the trees away from it to highlight it.  It's very cool and old school.

Others:

Southern Pines #2.
Great River GC in CT...the Acela rumbles by at 100mph above one green.
Woodland GC in Boston...D Line of the T...bisects the course.
Brae Burn...D Line, one stop toward the city from Woodland.  When two trains collided last year, the emergency equipment was spread out over the adjacent fairway.

[Mark Bourgeois]

[Norbert P]

  The trestle in Cullen, Scotland. Notice Cullen Links in background.

 

  Would loved to have seen the NLE Campbelltown to Machrihanish line.

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