Bighorn Cliffs Golf Course with judges' comments

[Garland Bayley]

Hi Garland, after looking at your design a second time I found many similarities in our routing (my design is #007).  Our first 7 holes cover nearly the exact same terrain, and your 8-12 loop follows a similar route as my 13-18.  I like your hole #10 better than my par-3; I stuck my green way out on the "peninsula."  My only question is, would the hole be blind from your tee placement?

I don't believe #10 would be blind. As you perhaps notice the tees are set back farther and farther to the right as you go back. This keeps them relatively on top of the hill as opposed to going over the ridge at the left which would make the back tees blind. As you know, the holes and greens were draped directly on the terrain without modification to the terrain. If there was a visibility issue, I am sure it could be corrected with a minimum of earth moving.

As for the routing, it seemed natural to use the boundaries of the property since we are not professionals that can spend months on a routing. I actually think that in at least one way it gave us a better routing than the actual course, because it forced us to make direction changes other than 180 degrees. I was really surprised to see the back and forth nature of the actual course as I noted on the common thread.


Thanks for reading my thread.

[Kalen Braley]

Dude,

More so than any other course I've seen so far I really love the undulation in your fairways...its pretty dang cool.  The bunkering and greens not as big a fan.

How soon is Charlie going to drag this out, I must admit the suspense is getting to me for who wins the whole enchilda...

[Garland Bayley]

Kalen,

Thanks for viewing the thread. On the common thread Charlie wrote he hopes to have the results tallied and up by tonight.

[Garland Bayley]

Kalen,

On the bunkerless course thread I learned that my style of design is "gravity golf"

[Anthony Gray]

   Garland,

  Very impressive.

  Love the use of topography.

  Excellent placement of green sites. Several greens are "punch bowl" like where shot can be funneled onto the green. And a few repel shots not hitting the green. The 9th grren is in a perfect location. Well done. The green locations and contours around the greens are great strengths to this course. Again well done.

  7th hole is wonderful. Perfect use of topo.

  I like the bunker fronting the green on 17 only because it is a par 5. If it was a par 4 you would have to shrink it a little.

  Overall looks like a course I would love to play. Good balance of uphill and downhill. Strategy off the tee to get the best visual for approach shots.

  Only improvements I would suggest is a little more fairway bunkering, not for penel reasons but for aesthetics.

  Congratulations Garland.

  Anthony

[Garland Bayley]

   Garland,

  Very impressive.

  Love the use of topography.

  Excellent placement of green sites. Several greens are "punch bowl" like where shot can be funneled onto the green. And a few repel shots not hitting the green. The 9th grren is in a perfect location. Well done. The green locations and contours around the greens are great strengths to this course. Again well done.

  7th hole is wonderful. Perfect use of topo.

  I like the bunker fronting the green on 17 only because it is a par 5. If it was a par 4 you would have to shrink it a little.

  Overall looks like a course I would love to play. Good balance of uphill and downhill. Strategy off the tee to get the best visual for approach shots.

  Only improvements I would suggest is a little more fairway bunkering, not for penel reasons but for aesthetics.

  Congratulations Garland.

  Anthony

If you knew how much trouble I had "stamping" bunkers with that tool, you would be more sympathetic to may lack of fairway bunkers.

Since 12 runs all downhill with the green running away, I tried forwever to stamp a bunker behind the green to keep balls from getting to 18 green. Never succeeded.

[Garland Bayley]

Sorry, bumped by mistake.

Judges' comments to be added and once again bumped when done momentarily.

[Garland Bayley]

Judges comments are here and also added to the appropriate places throughout the thread above.

Entry #4--A nice routing, but unfortunately one too many greens sitting on the top of a hill.

4 – I like the tees

Design 004
This routing need a lot of earthworks to actually become feasible.  There are many holes with awkward shots that are either uphill, blind or both, and a lot of green locations that are questionable, since they are often located on top of small mounds.  Large amounts of unnecessary work would be needed to correct the flaws of the routing.
In addition, I am not sure that a non-returning eighteen is the best way to go on this site.  I believe that two returning nines could have easily been created by using the features of the land efficiently.  In this climate, a golf course owner or operator will need all the rounds he can get to make a profit, even the nine-hole rounds! 
However, things are not all bad!  This routing offers, in my opinion, one of the most unique holes in the eight routings submitted in this contest.  I find that, with its gigantic fairway and its punchbowl green, the par four seventh offers two of the most intriguing shots on the course depending on your strategy. I believe that the hole could probably be made even more interesting with a few, cleverly placed bunkers in the fairway area.
GENERAL NOTES:
Holes no. 1 climbs a steep hill on the tee shots and will most likely offer blind approach shots for most golfers.  This might lead to slow starts.
Hole no. 2 offers a roller-coaster ride with a fairway that is heavily sloped and no clear idea of the direction the golfers are supposed to take.
Hole no. 3 offers an interesting tee shot to a diagonal fairway that falls away from golfers.  Golfers who will attack the corner of the dogleg will have a much better view of the hole, and a shorter route to the green.  Not bad.
Hole no. 4 appears to be a long par three to a very tough green located on a high mound with steep fall offs everywhere.  This will be a very difficult hole for most golfers.
I am not sure that the green of hole no. 5 is in the perfect location.  High points appear to be good spots to locate greens until you realize how tough it makes them.  Another thing is that you will most likely need to entirely shape the top of the mound to create a green that will be receptive.  I am also not too sure about the location of the right side fairway bunker.  Why put a bunker there and not on the front left of the green?  Tee shots will be deflected to the left side of the fairway unless a good fade is hit off the tee.  The slope alone in the fairway will do the job.
The same comment applies to the green of hole no. 6.  I am not too sure I understand the idea behind this hole.  It does feel like it has potential, but the steep uphill slope and the absence of bunkers to create strategy leave me wondering what could have been created. (See hole no. 14 of routing 008 for what I would do there....)
Hole no. 7 is unique and very interesting.  The extremely wide fairway gives an incredible amount of options to golfers.  The left side of the fairway is the most obvious way to go off the tee, but the bunker in front of the green will make the second shot tougher.  I would prefer to try to carry the linear mound on the left side of the fairway to set myself up for an easier approach.  Hopefully, it will be possible to drain the low area in which the green is located; otherwise, this might be a nightmare for any superintendant.
Hole no. 8 is another long uphill par three that feels very similar to hole no. 4.
Hole no. 9 feels like a long, uneventful climb to the top of the hill with yet another green perched on top of a mound.  This is getting really repetitive, as well as too tough for almost any quality of player.
I would have preferred hole no. 10 to be a little longer and with a back tee slightly closer to the green of hole no. 9.  As it is, a good portion of the green complex is semi-blind, and it is tough to define the target.  The green could have been more interesting if it had extended towards the edge of the cape on which it is located towards the back of the proposed green.
I find hole no. 11 to be quite interesting.  It appears to be a drivable par 4 that begs the players to try to reach it with their tee shots.  However, I wonder if even the lay-up might be too difficult considering the severe slopes of the hogs back fairway.
I wonder if hole no. 12 actually works the way it is shown on the plan.  The tee shot appears to be directed at a diagonal fairway sloping away from the golfers who have no clear idea of where to hit their tee shots to stay safe. The wider part of the fairway on the left is simply not in play for anybody, and the tee shots have to be aimed way right in order to have hopes of landing in the fairway.  It could be a good hole, with a bit of work.
Hole no. 13 simply does not work because of the strong uphill slope directly in front of the tees.  Not only will the green be completely blind from any of the tees, but the slope might even block a few shots.  I know the 5th at Prestwick (Himalayas) works, but the land here is quite different.
I like hole no. 14.  It is quite simple but very effective at using the left to right slope that crosses the fairway.  A draw to the top of the hill will open up the view to the green nicely perched on top of the small rise.  Good job.
Hole no. 15 could be interesting, but it lacks details to evaluate properly.  However, I feel that, once again, the green on top of the hill could be problematic.
Hole no. 16 offers another uphill tee shot to an undefined target.  The green location has potential, but, again, there is a lack of info to evaluate the rest of the hole properly.
Hole no. 17 is interesting, even if I believe the fairway should wrap more around the right fairway bunker to entice the players to carry it.  However, we would need to confirm this on site, as the second green could come into play on the tee shot.  The fairway could also extend to the right side of the green to allow more recovery options for golfers trying to carry the front bunker to get on the green.
Hole no. 18 feels a bit weak as the finishing hole.  It is also pretty far from the clubhouse area.
Best Holes:   Hole no. 7 – Par 4
      Hole no. 14 – Par 4
      Hole no. 17 – Par 4