[PThomas]

John Hawkins writes in this weeks GolfWorld that these devices reduced the length of rounds by almost 1 hour in the 2006 Florida State Open

has this always been the case when they've been allowed in tournament play?

if so, is this the definitive argument that they should be allowed always?

[John Moore II]

Used in that situation with a field of competent players, yeah, it might speed up play a bit, as indicated. But on a daily basis among regular golfers, I still feel it would slow play.

[Tom Huckaby]

Sigh.. can we please please please save this for Melvyn's return?

Say what you will about the use of these devices and the spirit of the game, slippery slope toward abandonment of judgment, etc... hey I agree.

But one simply cannot say with a straight face that their use does anything but speed up play, in damn near all instances.

So thanks, Paul.  But I considered this a dead and buried issue.  I believe in logic and evidence.

TH

ps - late edit to JKM - I would say it depends on the course and the type of golfer as to how it plays out outside of tournament play.  My feeling has always been that those who use them at all are distance-mandatory types who if they don't have them would spend all day searching for markers.. and thus it speeds play here also. You don't tend to see many casual golfers using Bushnells.  Disagree?

[Phil McDade]

Huck:

Well, not to get all cheater-line on you, but.....

Aren't the better players (maybe defined as single-digit HC folks) the ones less likely to search all day for distance markers absent their Bushnells? I mean, a guy's sitting in the fairway on par 4 whatever length, and he probably has a good idea of how far he's hit it, how far he is to both the green and pin, and other factors (wind, lie) that he calculates much more quickly than Average Joe, and knows certainly within one club what to play. That's been my experience playing with single-digit guys.

On the other hand, the lesser player: a) may not care about his score in many/most instances (me); b) may be simply at the level of advancing the ball forward in a fairly straight line from tee to green (which, from my experience, even if the guy's short/short, means he can probably play bogey golf); and c) isn't really inclined to buy a distance-finder, because he's the kind of guy who's playing with Pinnacles and off-the-rack clubs from Sam's Club or Wal-Mart. The game's already hard for him, in part because he can't process information and doesn't know his game nearly as well as single-digit guy. To me, a distance-finder (made available by a buddy, or some other means by a course seeking to improve pace-of-play) slows this guy down considerably.

[Doug Siebert]

An hour?  What, were the players otherwise walking all the way to the green to step off their distances?

[Sean Leary]

While I agree that they certainly speed up play, an hour seems way too much.

[John Moore II]

An hour?  What, were the players otherwise walking all the way to the green to step off their distances?

Well, if you consider they had to either shoot or walk off the distance from a sprinkler head for about 20 shots through the day, the probably saved them 20 minutes per group. Factor in lost time through the field, and I can see the savings being near an hour for the last groups of the day.

[Adam Clayman]

Interesting in a counter intuitive way. Since it involves competition, and the glacial pace most of these U.S. tournaments can be, I see no immediate problem if it were a stipulated rule for specific tournaments. Heck it might even save the PGA Tour. I know the caddies would be in favor of it.

[JMEvensky]

Used in that situation with a field of competent players, yeah, it might speed up play a bit, as indicated. But on a daily basis among regular golfers, I still feel it would slow play.

Amen.Of what value is to-the-inch distance to someone incapable of getting an iron shot airborne in the first place?

[Brent Hutto]

Laser rangefinders aren't accurate to the inch. More like plus or minus a yard to two in the real world.

The purpose of a laser rangefinder is to be as accurate as you can be pacing to sprinkler heads and yardage markers (typically 2, 3, 4 yards) more quickly, more easily and with less distraction from the flow of the game. They work very well when used for that purpose. They're especially time-saving when you find yourself somewhere far from any marked or charted yardage information.

They slow down the game when used by some numb-nuts who wants to gawk around at random obstacles and is looking for a way to fiddle around instead of play golf.

[Kyle Harris]

Where was the 2005 Florida State Open played?

[PCCraig]

I usually can't stand rangefinders...good players who swear by them usually die by them also. They get so enamored with the certain number that they forget the other variables in the distance (wind, slope, etc...)

The other problem is with those distance plates is that they are not always correct.

[Brent Hutto]

I usually can't stand rangefinders...good players who swear by them usually die by them also. They get so enamored with the certain number that they forget the other variables in the distance (wind, slope, etc...)

I think "good players" must mean something different than I think it means. To me a "good player" always takes into account the wind, slope, lie, temperature, firmness of the green, how they're swinging that day and a bunch of other stuff. I'd call someone who looks at a number as the final arbiter at best a wannabe, at worst a hack.

[A.G._Crockett]

Huck:

Well, not to get all cheater-line on you, but.....

Aren't the better players (maybe defined as single-digit HC folks) the ones less likely to search all day for distance markers absent their Bushnells? I mean, a guy's sitting in the fairway on par 4 whatever length, and he probably has a good idea of how far he's hit it, how far he is to both the green and pin, and other factors (wind, lie) that he calculates much more quickly than Average Joe, and knows certainly within one club what to play. That's been my experience playing with single-digit guys.

On the other hand, the lesser player: a) may not care about his score in many/most instances (me); b) may be simply at the level of advancing the ball forward in a fairly straight line from tee to green (which, from my experience, even if the guy's short/short, means he can probably play bogey golf); and c) isn't really inclined to buy a distance-finder, because he's the kind of guy who's playing with Pinnacles and off-the-rack clubs from Sam's Club or Wal-Mart. The game's already hard for him, in part because he can't process information and doesn't know his game nearly as well as single-digit guy. To me, a distance-finder (made available by a buddy, or some other means by a course seeking to improve pace-of-play) slows this guy down considerably.

Phil,
I don't think your comparison of the two golfers above is the issue. 

The guy who cares about and wants to know exact yardage may or may not be any good; it's just that a range finder is a faster way to get that yardage than pacing distances.

Every thing else in this argument is a distraction from that very simple and self-evident point.

[A.G._Crockett]

Used in that situation with a field of competent players, yeah, it might speed up play a bit, as indicated. But on a daily basis among regular golfers, I still feel it would slow play.

Amen.Of what value is to-the-inch distance to someone incapable of getting an iron shot airborne in the first place?

I always find the "to the inch" criticisms of both golfers AND rangefinders funny.  It's as if a rangefinder that read "You're about 150 yds. out, but you aren't good enough to need more info than that" would be better.

I don't need to know 152 as opposed to 150, but obviously the device shows a more exact distance anyway. 

I will, however, play both better and faster (which are related!) if I know that I'm 150 +/-, rather than 140 or 160.  It is just faster to point and shoot rather than pace.  Again, ALL other arguments are a distraction from that self-evident point.

[Pete_Pittock]

While using my newly acquired rangefinder during a 4:25 round today it occurred to me that we could really speed up play by adding a .22 long derringer function to the rangefinder. It would be legal during tournament play by local rule.
(It was the group in front who finished  1 1/2 holes behind.

[Bill_McBride]

While using my newly acquired rangefinder during a 4:25 round today it occurred to me that we could really speed up play by adding a .22 long derringer function to the rangefinder. It would be legal during tournament play by local rule.
(It was the group in front who finished  1 1/2 holes behind.

Warning shots or lethal weapon stuff?

[Pete_Pittock]

Bill,
I'm a non-voiolence type of guy. Don't aim it at poeple. It would probably work best outside city limits. 

[Doug Siebert]

Saves an hour?  I'm skeptical about that but I suppose I could believe a minute per hole.

Maybe we could save another minute per hole with a device that writes a temporary (washes off in the ball washer) cheater line on your marked ball in the direction you choose.  That'd save the 5-10 seconds per idiot employing this strategy which may amount to a minute per hole when you add in second putts

[Scott Coan]

Let me see if I get this straight...  I can hire Steve Williams to caddy for me and he will tell me the exact yardage to the front, middle, and back of the green on every approach shot I hit.  He will inform me of the wind speed and direction and he will even tell me which club I should hit given my capabilities.  This is all perfectly legal, acceptable, and for a lot luddites on here, "traditional".  Francis Oiumet had a caddie after all.

I can also use a sky caddie that will inform me of the exact yardage to the front, middle, and back of every green on every approach shot I hit.  Even better, since I am a long hitter of the ball but also very, very wayward, this gizmo can tell me the approach distances from 2 or 3 fairways over!  So instead of Steve having to pace out the tangent distance from my 45 degree offline drive, i can simply press a button and wouldn't you know it, but I have exactly 167 yards to the from of the green.

How anybody can interpret this to be a pace impediment is beyond me.  And how is it cheating if a hired caddy provides the exact same information, as well as in-person coaching throughout the round?

 

[JWinick]

It's always fun when intolerant idealists try to find some logical justification for their position.   You can't reason with them.  They know best and will impose their purist version of the game on all of us.  Hopefully, you will be in the group ahead of them, but not behind them while they walk back and forth trying to figure out the distance.

It may not save an hour, but the biggest help is when you're off-line or long and the range finder saves the time of walking off the shot.   Slow play is, by far, the biggest issue in golf course enjoyment.  End of story.   

Shivas, integrity of the game?  It's already been agreed to by the ruling bodies.   Write a letter.

[Sean_A]

Let me see if I get this straight...  I can hire Steve Williams to caddy for me and he will tell me the exact yardage to the front, middle, and back of the green on every approach shot I hit.  He will inform me of the wind speed and direction and he will even tell me which club I should hit given my capabilities.  This is all perfectly legal, acceptable, and for a lot luddites on here, "traditional".  Francis Oiumet had a caddie after all.

I can also use a sky caddie that will inform me of the exact yardage to the front, middle, and back of every green on every approach shit it hit.  Even better, since I am a long hitter of the ball but also very, very wayward, this gizmo can tell me the approach distances from 2 or 3 fairways over!  So instead of Steve having to pace out the tangent distance from my 45 degree offline drive, i can simply press a button and wouldn't you know it, but I have exactly 167 yards to the from of the green.

How anybody can interpret this to be a pace impediment is beyond me.  And how is it cheating if a hired caddy provides the exact same information, as well as in-person coaching throughout the round?

 

Scott

Two wrongs don't make a right.  IMO, if its serious golf, nobody or any device should be giving the player info.  That said, I know I will never get my way, I just wonder how far down the slippery slope we all will slide.

Ciao

[Mark Chaplin]

Bring your rangefinder to the 150yd 4th hole at Deal, I've hit every club between 3 wood and wedge to this hole. On windy courses the rangefinder gives a number but not the feel for the shot required.

[Kyle Harris]

Where was the 2005 Florida State Open played?

[Scott Coan]

Scott

Two wrongs don't make a right.  IMO, if its serious golf, nobody or any device should be giving the player info.  That said, I know I will never get my way, I just wonder how far down the slippery slope we all will slide.

Ciao

I hear you Sean.  To me, we all fell down that slope when our "woods" morphed into metal montrosities.

That being said, I've just recently been playing with a mate who has a sky caddie and I find it amazing how accurate my "distance eye" has developed over 30+ years of golf.  I am always within 10 meters and quite often spot on.  For my current game that is certainly good enough as my misses are a hell of a lot further off than that!  What I have found most educational is how the sky caddie provides the distance to the front of greens.  I've always been a bit of a pin hunter as my mind always thinks I can pull off the perfect shot.  Then when I inevitably miss left or right I find myself in some pretty precarious positions as that's just the way my home course is defended.  Playing to the front of the green is my new mantra!     

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