Chicago Aerial: Harry Collis' Glenwoodie (Photos added)

[Dan Moore]

An course designed by an interesting figure in the early days of Chicago area golf.  Harry Collis, who hailed from Blackheath, came to Chicago to serve as the pro at Flossmoor CC in 1905.  He took over greenskeeping duties in 1911 and is best known for creating a local strain of bent called Flossmoor bent.  At Flossmoor he revised several holes and built some of the better greens in the Chicago area.  Flossmoor was consistently considered one of the best 2-3 courses in the Chicago area through the 1920's and hosted the US Amateur in 1923.  Collis also designed several courses in the 1920's. 

Glenwoodie, shown here, is remarkable for its resemblence to Flossmoor.  Located just a few miles East on a similarly shaped narrow north to south track of property, Butterfield Creek runs through both courses.  The best holes at Glenwoodie, like those at Flossmoor, take advantage of the ravine created by the creek.  These 4 holes (11,12,16 and 17) and a set of outstanding greens make a visit to Glenwoodie worthwhile.  Quite a value in these days of recession as well.  Prime-time rates just $38 to walk. 

Once owned by the Jemsek family the course is now operated by the Village of Glenwood.  I'll have some course photos later. 

[Adam Clayman]

Dan, Is that the course on the near west side (slightly south?) Riverside?

Langford?

Never played it, but drove by on my way to Beverly back in '03.

[Tim_Cronin]

Obscure hint: Site of one of the better annual junior tournaments in the Chicago area.

[Dan Moore]

No Adam.  A onetime hidden Jem. 

[PCCraig]

I can't see the picture for some reason or another here at work! bummer.

I'll have to guess later on when at home.

[Scott Warren]

It's not Glenwoodie, is it?

[PCCraig]

Ahh Glenwoodie...

Site of the 2001 Illinois High School Golf Sectionals. From what I remember it wasn't all too bad, but it wasn't worth the long long drive to get there. When driving there for a practice round I took a wrong turn and ended up in downtown Hammond, IN!

[PCCraig]

I am interested to hear why others on here who have played Glenwoodie like or dislike the course.

How much has the course changed since the 1920's? Dramatically?

[Dan Moore]

Thankfully, I can't give a first hand account of the differences between the 1920's and today, but two main differences are apparent:  a significant reduction in the number of bunkers and a significant increase in the number of trees.  The greens appear to have survived largely unscathed and are really quite good.  While the trees on most holes are not a problem on 11 and 16, arguably the two best holes on the course, trees significantly and uncessarily intrude on the landing zone and are a significant detriment to those otherwise wonderful holes. 

[Tim_Cronin]

At the SouthtownStar, we've always listed Glenwoodie as co-designed by Harry Collis and Jack Daray, based on what we were told when the Jemsek family leased the course from the Archdiocese of Chicago.

The junior tournament I mentioned is the SouthtownStar Challenge, which turns 21 this year. It's become the biggest independent junior tourney in the Chicago area, and it's always been played at Glenwoodie, thanks at first to the Jemseks, and now the town, which bought the course for $5 million about a decade ago.

The greens are virtually unchanged from the originals, big and sloping and difficult once over 10 on the stimp. The par-4 16th, with the second shot over the chasm created by Jones Creek, is one of the best in Chicagoland. The green is, along with the 12th, the most canted on the course. It's easy to roll a putt off the green and down the hill.

Originally, Glenwoodie was Glenwood Country Club, a private all-Jewish club, much like Ravisloe and Idlewild, but that changed within a few years of it opening in the early 1920s. It went public, and for a time was one of Al Capone's numerous golf hangouts.

There's a plan to build housing to the east of the course, which would mean a two-lane road running between the nines, and a repositioned second green and third tee, plus a new (and needed) clubhouse, but that project is at a standstill now, and likely will be for years, and perhaps forever.

[Dan Moore]

Tim,  Thank you for the additional information.  I have always wondered about the role of Daray and extent to which he deserves recognition as an architect.  To me the big round bunker style and greens scream Collis and the similarities to Flossmoor to obvious to miss. 

[Dan Moore]

Here is a closer look at holes 11, 12, 16 and 17 that use the landforms of the creek.  These holes alone are worth the price of admission.  I'm very curious about the round object to the right of the 11th tee.  Perhaps a bunker with a tree in it to protect the tee from the 13th fairway. 






11 Medium Long Par 4 No bunker on left.  Trees in landing area unnecessarily limit play.  Willows near green need to go. 







12 Medium Par 3 Very nice hole with 5 bunkers reduced to 1.  A lot like the 11th at Flossmoor.



16 Long Par 4   A brute which combines elements of 16 and 17 at Flossmoor.  Again trees intrude on the landing area. 







17 Shortish Par 4 Nine bunkers originally down to just 2.  Regardless still a very nice short par 4. 

[Tim_Cronin]

Dan, great pictures. You picked a perfect day for it. The pictures of the 17th bring back a mad memory: I made a million on there one day when I was slicing everything OB.

[Mark Smolens]

Back in the mid-80s I used to play Glenwoodie with NIMAGA.  They had a rule that you had to finish 12 minutes behind the group in front of you (or 24 behind two groups in front).  I can recall sitting on the south side of the ravine on 16 watching the group in front putting out, as the groups ahead of them were running up 17 and 18 to finish. . .  needless to say I don't play with NIMAGA anymore.

Other than the ravine holes, I've never cared much for Glenwoodie.  Good place to play in the winter, but the fact that a course is open year round isn't much of an endorsement for quality.  Even when the Jemseks ran the place, the conditions were not very good.

[Dan Moore]

These photos were taken last July.  As you can see in the photos the course was in fine condition at that time.  I didn't see conditioning as an issue at all.  The par 3's were all very good, but aside from the ravine holes some of 4 's and 5's were pretty bland, especially on the front nine.  The greens really make the course what it is; a super value with some golden age flavor. 

[C. Squier]

I played in the SouthTownStar Tournament a few times in my high school days, #16 seemed to give everyone fits.  I don't remember much, except a LOT of willow trees. 

[Tim_Cronin]

Clint, some years I did a hole-by-hole scoring average, and the 16th was always the highest, usually averaging double-bogey plus. Of course there was one year a kid took a 25 on the second hole, but that's another story. (He knocked 11 balls in the water on his approach, then hit the green and three-putted.)

[C. Squier]

Clint, some years I did a hole-by-hole scoring average, and the 16th was always the highest, usually averaging double-bogey plus. Of course there was one year a kid took a 25 on the second hole, but that's another story. (He knocked 11 balls in the water on his approach, then hit the green and three-putted.)

Any truth to the story that Tiger has played Glenwoodie?  The marshall that watched 16 spun quite a yarn to us, and presumably every other group that had played through about him visiting.

[Dan Moore]

Here are some more photos.

My favorite is the par 5 7th where many moons ago I missed a 4 footer for eagle in the State Am. qualifier and went on to 4 putt for a bogey. 

Dave Schmidt's favorite, the par 4 2nd





Par 3 3rd



Green on the par 5 4th  Good example of Glenwoodie's greens



Par 3 5th



par 5 7th



Par 3 14th



par 4 15th

[PThomas]

looks like it was in much better shape for you Dan than it was for me the one time i played it a LONG time ago...was really scruffy then

[PCCraig]

Clint, some years I did a hole-by-hole scoring average, and the 16th was always the highest, usually averaging double-bogey plus. Of course there was one year a kid took a 25 on the second hole, but that's another story. (He knocked 11 balls in the water on his approach, then hit the green and three-putted.)

Any truth to the story that Tiger has played Glenwoodie?  The marshall that watched 16 spun quite a yarn to us, and presumably every other group that had played through about him visiting.

I would find that highly unlikely...but would be loved to be proved wrong.

[Jeff Tang]

Clint, some years I did a hole-by-hole scoring average, and the 16th was always the highest, usually averaging double-bogey plus. Of course there was one year a kid took a 25 on the second hole, but that's another story. (He knocked 11 balls in the water on his approach, then hit the green and three-putted.)

Any truth to the story that Tiger has played Glenwoodie?  The marshall that watched 16 spun quite a yarn to us, and presumably every other group that had played through about him visiting.

I played Glenwoodie one time about ten years ago.  I don't remember much about the course but the one thing I do remember is the 16th hole.  At the time I thought it was just about the hardest par 4 I'd ever played.  Very tight and difficult tee shot and easy to get blocked out, and then over the ravine to an elevated green.  I remember thinking who in the heck could ever birdie this hole.

Regarding Tiger I have also heard this story.  In fact, I think I had read about it in a local Chicago golf magazine if I remember correctly.  The story as I recall is that Tiger was playing in a junior tournament (may have been at Cog Hill), it was match play, he lost earlier than expected, and since he had planned on being in town anyhow a match was set up with Tiger and another local junior golfer and they played at Glenwoodie.  I did not hear about any story related to this match and the 16th hole specifically, however, if anyone knows it I'd love to hear it.

[Tim_Cronin]

Without digging into my old notes, I recall that Tiger played Glenwoodie on the Saturday of his first Western Open appearance in 1994, when he had missed the cut. Shot a 71 or something. I think Earl played as well. Aside from Dubsdread and Medinah No. 3, how many other Chicago courses has Tiger played? Wynstone with Jordan, maybe?

Here's why 7-8-9 are dull in comparison to the rest of the course. When it was being built, the club ran out of money, so they just built basic holes. The pond on No. 8 was added by Joe Lee and Rocky Roquemore when the Jemseks took over. They also built an alternate tee on No. 11.

[PCCraig]

Tim:  aside from the obvious (Medinah, Cog, Olympia Fields), he has been to Edgewood Valley for the Western Junior, for sure.  I was there.  He played with Gary Nicklaus and Alex Buecking and I watched them with Bill Jauss.  I knew Jauss from Medill.  Toward the end of the round, Jauss asks "Schmidty, what's the story here? Golf's not my thing.  How good is this kid?" and I said "Bill, this kid has the best short game I've ever seen, but the story is local kid beats Nicklaus's son and the next Nicklaus".  (Buecking beat them both.)  That's what Jauss ran the next day. 

Tiger has also been to Bob O' Link and Merit Club, for sure.

The story they tell at Bob O' is that the Pro, Gary G., had to tell Jordan and Tiger they couldn't tee off for another 20 min because there was no play before 10 on Tuesday's or something like that.

Merit Club has Jordan and Tiger's scorecard up in the Pro Shop.

And Tiger played Shoreacres two years ago before the BMW.

[Tim_Cronin]

Good stuff, guys. I'd forgotten the Western Junior at EV. Saw Tiger for the first time when he played Cog No. 2 that week. Wild off the tee, but scrambled like Seve, putted like a dream. The rest of the EV story is that the club was closed, but someone got into the bar and a certain CDGA official and a certain player's father proceeded to end up happily cross-eyed. Fun times!