[Greg Murphy]

To speed PLAY, the focus needs to be from the green back out to the tee. Match play is faster primarily, though not exclusively, because less time is spent putting.

I don't use alignment markings when I set my ball down but I cannot imagine that even if each player in a foursome aligned the ball while placing it, it could amount to a couple seconds MORE each time the ball is placed. If all 4 players do it that might add 5 minutes to a round, and I think that's really pushing it. I can't say I've ever noticed it taking any longer for a player to place and align rather than just place. However, the act of placing a ball for each putt (needed to align) as part of the pre-putt routine must have a far larger effect. It would not surprise me in the least if 20-30 minutes was added to a round when all members of a foursome mark, lift, and replace before and between putts.

Any objections to a rule in medal play requiring continuous putting and banning lifting a ball once on the green?

[Carl Johnson]

To speed PLAY, the focus needs to be from the green back out to the tee. Match play is faster primarily, though not exclusively, because less time is spent putting. . . .

Granted.  How to we get away from the medal play mentality?  How to we recover original golf -- match play?  The game.

As an older recreational golfer I don't play medal play and don't care about my "score," except that I post according the rules for handicap purposes.  My typical game is the common four-ball Nassau.  I pick up when I'm out of the hole, but often others in my group won't do that; they want to "finish" the hole for a "real" medal play score.  Sure, I could say something, but with friends it's difficult.

Several other observations.  Several days ago my club hosted a dual match between two local high schools.  I followed the young men for the first three holes.  They were playing medal play.  Six players were on each team and the sum of the best four medal scores were going to count for the team.  From a skill standpoint, I'd say they were typical high school golf team players, but boy were they slow.  They weren't playing ready golf, as best I could tell.  Is medal play in high school typical for dual matches?  I'd think this sort of competition is the perfect place for match play.  It would speed the play itself in high school matches, but more important it would help to bring match play back to a major role in the game.  Is the idea that we're training every kid on a high school team for the PGA Tour?

Recently I was watching a PGA tournament on TV and one of the commentators mentioned that a US pro, I can't recall which one, had begun play in the Ryder or President's Cup (can't recall which) without prior match play experience and did not realize you could concede puts in match play.  What's wrong with this picture?

Obviously, televised medal play PGA tournaments are a problem in contributing to the medal play mindset.

I could make other suggestions regarding pace of play, but they'd add little, if at all, to the comments of others.  However, I think the greatest contribution could be made by a refocus on the match play game as "golf."

[Bradley Anderson]

Many years ago I allowed some tall grass areas to develop as an attempt to reduce mowing of rough in out of play areas.

I was surprised how much it did slow down play. Most of these areas were very far off the line but all it takes is one golfer to loose a ball in there to slow down an entire golf course. And some of those guys may have actually been hawking for free balls in the tall grass.

As much as I liked the tall grass areas they did slow down play.

Also, from an environmental standpoint, I honestly can not say that those tall grass areas saved energy. After three years when all the volunteer weeds, thistle, and softwood trees began to take over, they probably actually consumed more energy than when they were cut 30-40 times a year with rough mowers.

[Wade Whitehead]

Beyond ways to speed up play, there is a simple way to make players more aware of their pace.

Try: Place a clock on each tee box.  For each clock, figure out ideal time to that point on the course from the first tee.  Subtract that amount from actual time and set the clock.  The clock on ten tee, for example might be set two hours and seven minutes slow.

Ideally, when players arrive on any given tee, the clock will display their tee time.  Guys who tee off at 9:20 and who play at appropriate pace should see 9:20 on every clock all day.  If they see a time after 9:20, they're behind.  Before 9:20 is golden.  The exemplary ten tee clock would read 9:20 at 11:27.

To me, this is the simplest way to make players aware of their pace of play, which can't hurt.

WW

[John Moore II]

Beyond ways to speed up play, there is a simple way to make players more aware of their pace.

Try: Place a clock on each tee box.  For each clock, figure out ideal time to that point on the course from the first tee.  Subtract that amount from actual time and set the clock.  The clock on ten tee, for example might be set two hours and seven minutes slow.

Ideally, when players arrive on any given tee, the clock will display their tee time.  Guys who tee off at 9:20 and who play at appropriate pace should see 9:20 on every clock all day.  If they see a time after 9:20, they're behind.  Before 9:20 is golden.  The exemplary ten tee clock would read 9:20 at 11:27.

To me, this is the simplest way to make players aware of their pace of play, which can't hurt.

WW

9:20 at 11:27? This is the problem we face. That means it took 2 hours and 7 minutes to play the front 9. So, even if 10 minutes stop at the turn is factored into that, it took 1hr 57mins to play the front, figure the same to play the back and that means it will take 4 hrs 1min (I think thats right) to play the entire 18. So, we are considering a 4 hour round to be "exemplary." And this is the state of golf.....and why it takes so long to play a round of golf.

As far as the clocks go, they are great, but think of this. If group A sees, say 9:21 on the 5th tee, my thought would be "oh, 1 minute off, thats ok." I even did that as a ranger, I wouldn't tell anyone they were off until it got to 5 minutes, I mean, if you tell someone they are 1 minute off, they'll look at you like you are stupid. So, if group A sees 9:21 and figures they are fine, eventually (figureing 1 minute lost per group like I have said) group X that teed off at, say, 11:30, might see something like 12:10 on a clock but be right on the tail of the group in front of them. Lost time is a major problem that really can't be fixed. Groups are going to lose time on the course. Thats why the early groups MUST play in under the pace recommendation or the whole day will be fouled up.

[Pete_Pittock]

Josh,
 Cut back on difficult hole locations. Be generous with them on par 3s. Encourage continuous putting.

[Pat Burke]

SNIPERS

[Doug Siebert]

wwhitehead:

That's actually the best idea I've heard in a while as far as making players aware of their pace.  My home course used to have a sign after the 4th hole stating that you should have played the first four holes in 55 minutes, and if you haven't you should speed up.  But I doubt very many people checked the time and compared it to their tee time.  Having a clock on each tee show you the time you "should have started" would be a bit more obvious.

While I'm not naive enough to think that it would change the behavior of everyone, or even a majority, it would at least make everyone conscious that the course desires faster play and the offenders would know when they are behind.  Letting the slow players know they are slower than the desired pace is half the battle, I find the percentage of golfers who think they are not slow players is exceeded only by the percentage of (automobile) drivers who believe they are above average drivers!

The problem with these inevitable threads about improving the pace of play is that everyone has one or two pet peeves that they personally believe are the primary causes of slow play, but unfortunately they are wrong.  It is not golfers playing from tees too far back, or using the cheater line, or checking their exact distance before every shot, or rough too long, or greens too fast, or course too long, or lack of ready golf, or stroke play versus match play, or any of the other causes that are usually suggested.  It is all of them, with each accounting for a few minutes on average (in different amounts on different courses) but when all added together may add an hour or more to a round.

I do have one foolproof idea for improving the pace of play that has never ever failed me.  Go to the course at a time when it is less busy, and play when during a large empty spot in the tee sheet.  That's the only way to guarantee you will play at the pace you would prefer - if there is never a group ahead to wait on

[Sean_A]

However, the act of placing a ball for each putt (needed to align) as part of the pre-putt routine must have a far larger effect. It would not surprise me in the least if 20-30 minutes was added to a round when all members of a foursome mark, lift, and replace before and between putts.

Excellent point, Greg.

The fact that the cheater line exists increases the number of balls marked, lifted and placed by a very significant factor, particularly in casual games.

Once a guy uses the cheater line, he HAS TO mark, lift and replace - even if his ball is clean and nowhere near anybody else's line.  Ergo, more slow play...

Greg

One more reason why medal play should be played only for comps and probably in no more than 3 balls. 

I like the idea of graded times.  Something like 8-9am 2 ball play only.  9 to 11:00 am 2 and 3 ball play.  From 11:00 to 1pm up to 4 ball play.  1 to 2 pm 2 ball play only.  2pm onwards anything goes. 

10 minute intervals.

Mandatory call throughs if a group decides to search for a ball.

If there is a lost ball with no group in position to play through make sure one player is playing while the others look - sort of a tag team system.  It is so annoying to watch fours guys looking for balls before anybody has played especially as so often guys walk to their ball, then don't hit because they are going to look for another ball - stupid. 

Ciao 

[Bradley Anderson]

This is just an idea.

If a public club really is struggling from the issue of slow play, maybe it should try moving the tee blocks forward on the days when slow play is an issue.

This is something that I would not do at a private club, but for the resort clubs where slow play is an issue, I think that would help.

[Bradley Anderson]

The 150 yard pole, and colored stones on the edges of the fairways, at 100, 200, and 250 yards (on par 5's) help people to find their yardage much more quickly than sprinklers.

[Joe Hancock]

The 150 yard pole, and colored stones on the edges of the fairways, at 100, 200, and 250 yards (on par 5's) help people to find their yardage much more quickly than sprinklers.

You know...that old chestnut.....

Trying to get Ralph and Melvyn out of retirement?

Oh, and Good Morning from the West Side...

Joe

[Ulrich Mayring]

A business model centered around peace and tranquility may affect pace of play as this advertisement shows:

A round of golf on our scenic Carmel Valley golf course is so relaxing, the wildlife may ask to play through. Go ahead and let them—when you’re surrounded by hills and lakes this beautiful, it seems a shame to rush.

Ulrich

[archie_struthers]

 

Praise the members who move it out,  Make sure the starter gets a couple "rabbits"  (3:15 types) to lead the parade.

Teach your rangers ready to be forecaddies and not prison guards....thank people for catching the group in front when they get out of position. Let the employees play golf in off hours .....they will be more productive !

Do not ever accept the 4 hour round as good... it isn't ....always stress staying in position with your "mates" on the golf course

(p.s. being position conscious vs. time conscious can't be stressed enough)


critical.....get to know your players / members and promote courtesy and speed of play as a communal goal ....reward those who help you in some way ....sometimes a thank you is enough


this policy has worked at our club at the Jersey Shore ....even our octogenarian members play fast  ( note no time designation LOL)

rave on boys !

[Tom Birkert]

Carts slow down the game unless they can be driven anywhere...

I'm a bit confused by this "cheater line" slowing down play. I line up on my putts, as do several of my friends. Yet we get round the course in very good time, a fourball is normally finished in 3 and a half hours.

Slow play in the UK is generally caused by players who walk slowly, or leave their bag in the wrong place, mark their scorecard on the green etc.

[Morgan Clawson]

At most moderate to upscale public facilities there are usually 2-3 kids taking clubs from the cars to the carts.  This is usually a total waste of manpower.  Who needs someone to carry their bag 50 yards?

Instead, put these kids out on the course and have them act as forecaddies.  Usually there are 2-3 holes where players have trouble seeing their tee shot land.  This is where play gets backed-up.  Rangers should act as forecaddies too.  Usually they drive around and add very little value.

[Mike Nuzzo]

I'm mostly a positive reinforcement kind of guy.

At BulleRock you get a beer for the cost of your score at the end of a round.
Shoot 75 =  get a beer for 3 quarters.

I'd modify it a bit.
For every 10 minutes under 4:10 you play you get to buy a beer for your score.
Play in 3:30 get 4 beers for $4.

And a little punishment won't hurt:
If they finish in over 4:20 make them snort some jeigermeister -- it makes your eyes water a lot btw.

And Shivas did prove it years ago that the cheater line and pre-shot routine add 45 minutes to every round played in america - a huge cost.

[J_ Crisham]

Josh,           Welcome to GCA. I believe that walking speeds up play. Walking with your own caddy speeds it up even more. In this era of tough economics it is an added expense but if a player is able to afford it, the day is more special. The WGA does a great job of setting up programs across the country. Mike Maher has been very helpful to those in need of advice. The added benefit of supporting a caddy is not just monetary . You also have the ability to expose them further to the game not to mention scholarships like the Evans or Ouimmet. AS an aside, thanks for your support of the ESF,   Wish you well , Jack

[Carl Johnson]

. . . Do not ever accept the 4 hour round as good... it isn't ....always stress staying in position with you "mates" on the golf course. . . .

" do not ever" . . . That's a pretty bold statement.  I have to disagree.  The course and the conditions can make a siginificant difference.  I played a 4-ball Nassau at our club today.  We had three walkers (including me) on hilly course and one rider (who would normally walk but has a foot injury).  Because our fairway grass is new, the latter's cart had to remain on the path.  We finished in 4:15.  We lost a little space (1/2 hole) to the three ball ahead of us, but put about the same distance between the us the the three ball following.  So, we stayed well ahead of the group behind, but not quite up with the group ahead, our target.  The day was very windy.  If you tell me I should have played faster, I'd have to go back to road (running) racing.

[John Moore II]

. . . Do not ever accept the 4 hour round as good... it isn't ....always stress staying in position with you "mates" on the golf course. . . .

" do not ever" . . . That's a pretty bold statement.  I have to disagree.  The course and the conditions can make a siginificant difference.  I played a 4-ball Nassau at our club today.  We had three walkers (including me) on hilly course and one rider (who would normally walk but has a foot injury).  Because our fairway grass is new, the latter's cart had to remain on the path.  We finished in 4:15.  We lost a little space (1/2 hole) to the three ball ahead of us, but put about the same distance between the us the the three ball following.  So, we stayed well ahead of the group behind, but not quite up with the group ahead, our target.  The day was very windy.  If you tell me I should have played faster, I'd have to go back to road (running) racing.

Typically, I do not consider 4 hours to be something exceptionally fast. Its merely an OK pace. Now, the really poor thing about the situation you describe is that you played in 4:15 and the 3some in front of you played in only 5 or 10 minutes less than that.  A 3some playing in 4 hours, thats unaccepatable. Ideally, faster would be best though. But the course itself makes a difference. If the course has long distances from green to tee, it will take longer to play. If it has a half-way house, it will take longer to play. If the course is just plainly difficult, it will take longer to play. All those things have to factor into figuring out pace of play.

[Matt_Ward]

I've read a few of the comments that have been posted so if what I add is somewhat redundant my apologies -- but here goes ...

1). If power carts (gas / electric) are mandated then the facility CANNOT require that they stay on the path. This only causes massive back and forth of the players getting clubs and the like and invariably you're paying a fee to simply be a driver of the cart rather than playing golf.

2). I agree that having personnel situated at key parts of any course is essential.

3). Another tip for course operators -- stop all the BS about looking to speed up play when you add more beverage carts throughout the course which are there for one reason -- GET PEOPLE TO STOP and fork over $$ for your benefit. Frankly, it makes me shake my head in wonder that people who enter a course need to fill themselves up with a range of goodies and can't wait for the turn or the completion of the round. Have no issue with water and power bars and the like -- but do we really need Zabar's on the course ?

4). Set REALISTIC tee time intervals. Jamming a course like a freway with endless cars only ADDS TO THE CERTAINTY that play will crawl along.

5). Train staff people to understand that collecting credit card info is not their ONLY function when working. Private clubs can operate and enforce slow play remedies differently. If a resort or public operation cannot treat slow play in a relentless manner then stop with all the BS about wanting to make your time at the course enjoyable.

If a facility is not PREPARED AND ABLE to refund money from paying customers and have them leave the course when all other options have failed then please stop being in the enjoyment business because of the pain you are causing to others who want to keep the pace of play moving.

6). Related to staffing -- it's time to 86 the grandpa retired military types who think they are reliving their earlier days from Camp Lejune. Customer service is the top priority and barking at players is not effective. Management needs to set the tone by orientating staff on how to approach people, while at the same time, being fully capable in getting cooperation for the larger objective - which is to keep the greatest number of players satisfied through a relentless push to keep play moving.

Likely I have a few more thoughts -- most of them are tied to management practices because so few courses here in the States really care about speeding up play. It's all smoke / mirrors and very little attention to detail.

[PCCraig]

The 150 yard pole, and colored stones on the edges of the fairways, at 100, 200, and 250 yards (on par 5's) help people to find their yardage much more quickly than sprinklers.

I very much agree that some sort of consistent marking system helps golfers speed up as well as "show them the way" down a hole, which helps.

[PCCraig]

At most moderate to upscale public facilities there are usually 2-3 kids taking clubs from the cars to the carts.  This is usually a total waste of manpower.  Who needs someone to carry their bag 50 yards?

Instead, put these kids out on the course and have them act as forecaddies.  Usually there are 2-3 holes where players have trouble seeing their tee shot land.  This is where play gets backed-up.  Rangers should act as forecaddies too.  Usually they drive around and add very little value.

Sure that may help from time to time, but what happens when that kid you put out on 14 is a bad forecaddie and can find anyone's golf ball. Then the kid looks bad, the club looks bad for putting him out there, and the group is mad because they now think they shouldn't loose any balls on that hole.

Rangers should act as a forecaddie when a group falls way behind and are obvoiusly loosing golf balls and taking too long to find them.

[Jason Topp]

Pace of play relates primarily to how full the tee sheet is.  In general, I think pace of play at public facilities is much better now than it was 20 years ago.  I do not recall a 6 hour round in years and consider 5 a total disaster.  I cannot recall the last time a round took five hours.  I attribute the difference primarily to courses in the US being less busy than they were at one time.

I agree that barking rangers are counterproductive and rude.  I thought Tobacco Road had an effective program on a course that could be a disaster.  Primarily it had rangers that assisted players in finding balls at trouble spots and made the round more enjoyable.

New Carts with GPS that constantly provide information on how a cart is doing against the course's pace of play standard should be very effective tools provided that a course effectively uses them.  I pay attention to that pace whenever I am in a cart with such feedback.

I also think a 9 hole executive facility that drains off people who are not ready for a big course can be a big help.

[archie_struthers]

 

to Carl Johnson

Carl the reason that the oft accepted 4 hour round as good doesn't work is that if you set that as the goal a group out of position but playing at a 2 hour nine hole pace might l not care that they are gumming up the works ...many times rangers / not just players have stated to me ...hey , they are on par for a four hour round....

Pretty hard to push anyone once you set the bar so slow   LOL

Also , it's much easier to push speed of play at a private club , as you can get the members to buy in to the concept.  They eventually understand that it's more fun to keep moving....when you are taking someones cash as an occasional visitor , they tend to get more critical about being pushed to move it out!

You'd be amazed how easy it is to get around in 3-3:15 once you get used to ready golf....and for most it's more fun   cheers

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