USA roadtrip - a few final questions

[hick]

Feel free to give a ring if you come to newport,ri.can be good fall golf weather up to thanksgiving.

[Scott Warren]

Thanks Mat, will do.

[jeffwarne]

Scott,
Only go to Augusta if you can get on Augusta CC (which your overseas pro can probably arrange). Good golf course well worth playing and you will get a small glimpse of AGNC.
You won't from the road- and the area around the course is a classic example of suburbs going urban in a bad way. (note-I'm from Augusta)
If you're going in November this is one of the  areas of the country that will have pleasant golf weather.

There's very little to see in the town that you won't see in a hundred other urban blighted  towns along your journey. (I did a drive from Augusta to Southeastern Alabama over Christmas) and was utterly STUNNED at the number of strip malls there are in this country-I kept saying-"who buys all the stuff they sell?"

If you really want to see a classic old southern town and play better golf, go to Aiken(15 miles), stay downtown-play Palmetto GC (private but accessible) and/or Aiken golf club(public)

[rjsimper]

Scott-

1) Isn't there a Coastal California train?  That would be up there scenery-wise in mybook.  Dallas - Denver would not excite me...lots of flat land along that route.  Chicago to Denver...same problem, just a lot of plains.  Phoenix-Denver would be my GUESS, however I do not know the route the train takes.  As I mentioned earlier, Denver to Vegas was a most beautiful drive, particularly the southeast corner of Utah, but I do not know the route the train you mention takes.

2) I would say no on Augusta....the town itself is nothing special, so unless you can guarantee that you'd actually get in the door at the club, probably not worth it unfortunately....unless peering through the fence is going to be fulfilling for you.  That would literally be the only thing you did in the area.  It's probably 2.5 hours from Augusta to either Savannah and Charleston, so if you wanted to take a kamikaze day trip from one of those you could...but both of those are destinations to better spend a day in than Augusta.

3) San Fran to Seattle is a LONG drive, but exceedingly beautiful.  You could stop at Bandon Dunes if you drove that stretch.  I know many that have chosen to drive from SF to Bandon on account of how nice the drive is....but it is definitely long.  It's strange to look at a map and realize how much California there is north of San Fran, but it's a lot!  Still, the Oregon coast, even if you miss Bandon, is breathtaking.  

4) I haven't made that drive - the northern route - but Yellowstone is the obvious item along that route.  I have heard good things about the Black Hills in the Dakota region, but Iowa is pretty boring as is a good portion of Montana (though I would like to have seen it)

[Carl Nichols]

My two cents on your 4 specific questions and then your broader one:
1.  I agree w/ Ryan about the trains; I’ve taken the Chicago-Denver train, and the scenery is really boring.  I expect Dallas-Denver is the same.  If you’re absolutely set on taking a train, one idea is to ride the train north or south through the Hudson River Valley – it goes right along the Hudson River, which is quite beautiful, and stops at a lot of great towns.
2.  I agree again with Ryan. 
3.  Though spectacular in many places, San Fran to Seattle is a very long drive.  Assuming you’re going to drive the central California coast from So. Cal to San Fran, one idea would be to extend the drive to Bandon and then fly to/from Seattle from Bandon.  You’d have covered an awful lot of coastline if you do that. 
4.  The problem with driving from Chicago to Seattle is that it takes a long time to get to anything that has really interesting scenery.  But once you’re there (i.e., in the Rockies), in addition to Yellowstone, there’s Grand Teton National Park and Jackson Hole, WY (both near Yellowstone), Glacier National Park (stunning), and the Cascades National Parks (also stunning). 

* * * *

In general, you’ve gotten a lot of great ideas from people.  For me, there are about 13 general areas in the U.S. that are in a tier above the others when you factor in accessibility (e.g., I think Glacier National Park is incredible, but it’s not easy to get to):  (1) Boston and coastal New England (Maine, Marblehead, etc.); (2) Vermont/NW Mass (prototypical quaint New England); (3) New York; (4) Washington; (5) Savannah/Charleston; (6) Florida (I’m not a huge fan, but should be seen); (7) New Orleans (though I don’t what it’s like post-Katrina); ( Texas; (9) Colorado/Rocky Mountains; (10) Southwest and Grand Canyon (way better than Niagara); (11) Southern California; (12) Central Cal Coast; and (13) Northern California (San Fran and Monterey).  Without taking away from any of the other places, these are the places I would try to visit.  (I haven’t been to Yosemite, but people rave about it enough that I think it would qualify).

My suggested itinerary would be:  fly into Boston; see at least one or two coastal New England towns north of Boston; drive to central Vermont; drive west to the Hudson River Valley, then south to New York (I would skip Niagara b/c of the distance and b/c IMHO it’s not nearly as impressive as a lot of other places in the U.S.); drive to Washington (see Virginia horse country if you have time – it’s close); fly from Washington to Charleston; drive through coastal S. Carolina to Savannah, then south into Florida to the city in Florida you want to see (for me, it would be Miami, for others it’s Orlando); fly from that city to New Orleans; fly from New Orleans to Denver (skipping Texas because of time); drive from Denver to Aspen, then southwest toward the Grand Canyon and Arizona; from Arizona, head west to So Cal; then drive the California coast up to Monterey, then San Fran.  If you want to go to the Pac NW, I would then fly to Vancouver, which to me is a more interesting city than Seattle….

Shoot me a PM if you’d like some more specific suggestions.

[K. Krahenbuhl]

My question exactly, Carl.

I was very keen to go there pre-Katrina, but the image I have been getting since then is that it is still very much in disarray. In a way, that's a great reason to visit and help the tourism trade stay in business, but if it's chaos, perhaps best to avoid it.

Can anyone give a first-hand account?

If you wanted to go before you should still go.  It really isn't any different at this point - certainly not in any of the places you would spend time.

[ed_getka]

Scott,
    The only train ride I have ever heard of that sounded intriguing was up in the Canadian Rockies. I'm not sure of the route, perhaps Vancouver to Calgary or something like that. Otherwise I would go for a train ride that can be done in a portion of a day. There is one down around Santa Cruz that I never got around to but that is nice country. There is a train station right outside Glacier National Park and once there you can get around by the free buses that run around the park. If I were ever to go up to Glacier again that is how I would do it.
   I took my 3-1/2 year old son on a spur of the moment road trip from San Francisco up to Portland where we camped in our emptied out minivan and stopped wherever the mood struck my son. We did that for 8 days and it is one of the highlights of my life as a parent. We looped inland on the way back down and checked out Crater Lake. I can assure you that you have never seen water that blue before. It is something you have to see to believe. Just north of San Francisco is Muir Woods which I would highly recommend if you have never seen redwoods. Also on the way down from Oregon through Northern California is a tree you can drive through. A totally tourist thing to do, but it is quite interesting.
     The Oregon coast, especially the last few hours in the southern portion (below Bandon) is utterly spectacular. There are turnouts every few miles it seems and everyone of them is worthy of a look. The only bummer is that you don't know what kind of weather you will get and it could be foggy and socked in, but over a couple of days you are bound to get some great views. There is some impressive coastline in Australia too so you may not be as impressed as someone from Kansas. Gold Beach in southern Oregon with its seastacks is a great place to watch the sun go down. If you make it down to Monterey (which you should) I would get out to Pt Lobos (just south of Carmel, which is just south of Monterey). Walk along the trails and you will see Pebble Beach off in the distance and otters down below. Find your way over to China Beach (in Pt Lobos) with a bottle of wine in the afternoon.
    One other thing to do is consider taking a series of one way flights on Southwest Airlines. That way you can cut out chunks of uneventful driving, especially through the midwest. One way to see many interesting things is to get AAA (an autoclub) guidebooks for the states you will be visiting and you will find all kinds of interesting things in the unlikeliest of places. They have a GEM rating, and we have never been disappointed by one of them yet. The other great advantage of these books is when you feel like calling it a day you can just call ahead to the next town and arrange for lodging.
    Have fun planning.

[Matt Day]

as an aussie whose been lucky enough to go to New York twice, its one of the great cities and experiences anywhere in the world and has got to be worth a couple of days in a five week trip

[Scott Warren]

Carl, Kyle, Ed and Matt, thanks for your suggestions. I appreciate the time some of that must have taken to type out!

Carl - that itinerary looks great. I liked your suggestion of driving to Bandon then flying to Seattle.

Ed - some of those areas sound like a must-see. The northwest has gone from not being considered to seeming like a must-see, based on what you and others have described. There is some amazing coast down in Australia, but I love the ocean and the dramatic land you get around it so much I never tire of it. I even got a kick out of going to Brighton a few months back!

Matt - NYC will likely be a three or four-day visit. I'm yet to meet a non-American who has been there and not loved it.

[Rich Goodale]

Scott

I haven't had the time to read anything but your initial post, so apologies if I am going over old ground.

Firstly, great idea and whatever choices you make you won't regret them.  There's always another time for things you might have missed, and you will miss a lot--4-5 weeks is only enough time to get a sniff at what makes America.

For the trip, the first bit is just fine, but rather than continuing south from Memphis, I'd drive up to Chicago, one of the only two world-class ciities in the US (ignoring the two great mini-cities, Boston and San Francisco).  From Chicago, take the train across the great plains and through the Rockies to San Francisco (or LA, if it is more convenient).  You will see more and learn more than in your current routing.  Stop for a day or two in Denver, if you can.  Once you get to California, spend the rest of of your time on a loop from LA, up through San Francisco to the wine country, back down by Yosemite and then to Las Vegas (which must be seen to be beleived, even though it sucks), and then the Hoover Dam, Grand Canyon, High and Low Desert of Arizona and then back to LA.  I wouldn't spend huge amounts of time in LA, but that's just my predilection as a dyed-in-the-wool Northern Californian (by adoption).

Hope this helps.  If you want an elucidation of the above, just ask.

Otherwise, enjoy!

Rich

[Jason McNamara]

Hi Scott -

I like the way you are looking at this - what's unique about the US?  A lot of those cities have been mentioned.  (Most recently by Rich, as I am just noticing.)  I will put in a plug for the following:

Chicago.  In fact, if you are serious train fans, then one good option may be to fly into Chicago to start your trip, then take the overnight train towards NYC, which drops you in Buffalo (for Niagara Falls) at 9am.  (You could even take this route from South Bend, Indiana/Notre Dame, in case you wanted to see a football game there.)  That same train the next day can bring you from Buffalo to Boston, or you can take that side jog from Bflo to Toronto.  It will be after peak foliage season, fwiw, but still a good countryside trip.

If you are anywhere near Lexington, North Carolina, there's a great small town for you.  Mainly because it's the pork BBQ capital of the world.  Eat here: http://www.hollyeats.com/Lexington.htm
Warning:  If your good lady is a furniture/antique devotee, please forget immediately that I ever said anything at all about western North Carolina.     Or maybe that's the trade: she can go drool over furniture, and you can eat pork shoulder, hush puppies, red vinegar slaw, and cobbler for 6 hours.  Come to think of it, that would work.  (If you go from Wash DC / Williamsburg VA to Atlanta, it's right on your way.)

College football.  If you wanted to combine it with some beach time, Georgia plays Florida in Jacksonville, FL on Oct 31st - that might be a bit early for your schedule, but it's a huge game.  Otherwise, Auburn is right on the way from Atlanta to New Orleans.  And Florida usually plays in Gainesville, which is not far from Disneyworld - if you do decide on Orlando.

New Orleans (a couple days is good).  Dinner here http://www.courtoftwosisters.com/ if the weather is nice out - you'll get brownie points for this.

San Antonio is a great city for a couple days, but honestly it's not really close to any other must-see kind of place.  (And I live in Houston.)  But see below for flights.

Grand Canyon.  If an American spends any time in Oz, he should go see Uluru, right?  Same idea. 

Las Vegas.  Go once, just to see the spectacle.  Once is plenty enough for many (most?), but do go once.  Plus if you drive to Vegas from the GC, you'll spend much of that drive on Route 66 (now Interstate 40), if that has any appeal for you.  You also go right over the Hoover Dam.

So to sum up, Chicago plus Chris Garrett's East plus San Antonio plus Cabell Ackerly's West (Moab is a cool idea), I guess.  And Charleston or Savannah is plenty, I don't think you need both.

This could save you lots of driving in the east.  In fact, you probably wouldn't need a car until you left DC.  Drive down to Georgia, maybe Florida.  Southwest Airlines does have non-stops from Orlando to N.O., easy connections from N.O. to San Antonio, and non-stops from S.A. to Denver.  Your longest drive there would be getting from the Denver airport to Denver itself!  But that way you wouldn't already be sick of the road before racking up all those miles out west.

I wouldn't put Memphis ahead of San Antonio, I don't think, and definitely not before New Orleans or Chicago.  And while I think Seattle is nice enough, I don't consider it a must-see except perhaps as a logical stop after a possible Bandon pilgrimage.

[Scott Warren]

This is amazing stuff guys. Thanks.

Jason, I like your idea for tackling the north east. One thing Kerry and has said to me is that she doesn't want the whole trip to be by car, so it would be good to eliminate road time in places that wouldn't benefit from it, but keep the car for maybe some of the south east and the time out west.

Chicago keeps getting mentioned as something to see. What exactly makes it so good to visit? All I really know about it is that Ferris Bueller's Day Off was set there, MJ used to play there and it's windy!

[Jason McNamara]

Scott, happy to help.  The itinerary I suggested shaves ~1500 driving miles off the eastern half of your first draft or 1300+ if you drive to Toronto from the falls.  Btw there are cheap buses between Boston, NYC, that Pennsylvania city, and Washington... some of them even tricked out with WiFi.

Things to see in Chicago are the architecture (Louis Sullivan & FLW), a jazz/blues/classical music concert (esp. the Chicago Symphony Orch.), maybe a hockey game if so inclined.  The shopping on Michigan Avenue (the Magnificent Mile) also has its attractions.  Wrigley Field is a must-see in season, which unfortunately you will miss.  Also there's a great collection of museums and the like, all in one convenient area.  And if you opted for a professional American football game, Solider Field would be a great choice.

Also you should know that Chicago is where The Blues Brothers took place!

You will definitely need the car in some areas, but frankly in Chicago and the Northeast, it's probably more of a pain than anything.  Parking is either impossible to find and/or stupid expensive.  And the drive from San Antonio to Denver would be a very boring one!

[Rich Goodale]

Jason

You forget that if Scott gets to Chicago in early-mid October he can watch the Cubbies at Wrigley in the World Series!

Rich

[Chris Garrett]

Rich,

And where do you suggest Scott find the time machine that will take him back at least to 1945? 

[Tim Bert]

Unless you have another trip planned or have already done it, I think it would be a big mistake to spend 4-5 weeks in the states and not spend a week of that time in Canada.

As has been mentioned - you want rail?  Fly to Calgary then drive to Banff and spend a day. Take the train to Vancouver. Has to be one of the best in the world. Vancouver is a great place to spend a day or two as well.

[Dan Kelly]

Scott --

I don't have time, today, to read all of the replies before mine, so I apologize if this is repetitious.

If you're going to be here in October, you really should head north from Boston and just drive around the country roads of New England. You will not see finer Autumn colors anywhere -- even in the Upper Midwest, where I live. And you will find plenty of tidy little towns, some of which may be having their tidy little autumn festivals. Ask the New Englanders here for specifics.

I wouldn't bother with Las Vegas, myself, except for a very short stay. I speak as someone who has spent about six hours there, and that was plenty for me. It's worth seeing for its astonishing kitsch value -- but beyond that? You can have it!

What your trip lacks, in my view, is the chance to feel, in your bones, how BIG this country is. You get that feeling in one way, and in one way only: by driving a car West. I'd definitely go to Chicago. From there, I'd take a car west, over the plains, over the mountains, all the way to the coast. Drive across Illinois, across Iowa, across much of Nebraska. Wangle a day and a night at Sand Hills. Then head north into South Dakota. Arrange a day and a night at Sutton Bay. See Mount Rushmore -- just to see it. Then westward ho! Through gorgeous Big Sky Montana (drop down to see Yellowstone and the Tetons), through Idaho, across Washington to Seattle.

That drive west will chew up a bunch of your time, and some of it will be tedious as hell ... but you'll get a true American Experience this way, and four or five weeks is a good long time.

From Seattle, I'd drive the entire Pacific Coast, all the way to San Diego. The West Coasters can give you specific guidance on what to see and do en route.

I recommend that you read the book "Cross Country," by Robert Sullivan. You'll get some specific ideas from that -- as well as a good feeling why driving the continent is the American Way.

I'm really envious. Have a superb time -- and if, for some strange reason, your itinerary brings you to Minnesota, be sure to get in touch with me.

Dan

[Tom Huckaby]

Dan - your suggestions are fine, your wisdom solid... IF he went in the summer time.

He is doing this in November.  Would it not be wiser to stick to more southern routes?

TH

[Dan Kelly]

Tom IV --

I believe he said around October/November.

The stuff I've suggested ALL works in October -- except maybe that phantom day in Mullen, Nebraska. October is a fantastic time to drive west.

Isn't November a perfectly good time to drive the Pacific Coast?

--------------

Of course, if Scott doesn't care to see Mount Rushmore, he could head in a slightly more southerly direction and drive through the Rockies in Colorado, before heading up toward the Tetons and Yellowstone.

But I'd see the Mountain West in any month of the year before I'd ever bother with Orlando, Florida.

Have never been to Nashville, so can't comment on that.

[Tom Huckaby]

Dan:

It would be lovely on the west coast; my fear is for the route through the northern states heading west.  Early October could work... but October/November (yes, as stated)... doesn't that get into potential quite bad weather for driving/seeing anything? 

I did some of this drive once, in fall... I recall some regret I wasn't south as we fought through snow.  But then again I had to get from Chicago to San Jose and thus had no choice. 

But of course you know better than I do about the weather... I just don't think I'd CHOOSE the north parts if weather were any sort of an issue.  He can feel in his bones how big this country is pretty darn well going south.

Make it summer, no weather issues... and I agree your idea is the best.  That does cover some wide-open spaces he will not see elsewhere.

TH

[Scott Warren]

A question: what the hell are those circles in the pic below? It's north-east Colorado

[Rich Goodale]

Crop irrigation systems.

[Dan Kelly]

Crop irrigation systems.

Center-pivot irrigation systems. Cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_pivot_irrigation

[Scott Warren]

Fair enough.

Researching this trip with everyone's input has been a lot of fun. We are pretty close to settling on a revised itinerary.

[Rich Goodale]

Crop irrigation systems.

Center-pivot irrigation systems. Cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_pivot_irrigation

Thnakns, Dan.  I always thought their purpose was to water crops, rather than the central pivot.  You learn something new every day....(insert gormless emoticon here)

Rich