[PCCraig]

Shoreacres.

Unless something's changed in the last 10 years (I don't think it has), I've often wondered why they even bother.

Nothing has changed...that is why it is the best range in America. Cleared out of a forest, 30 yards wide, 200 yards long and right next to the drive into the clubhouse. Just enough room for a 4-some, nice balls, no frills. Take 20-30 swings and get to the first tee.

That is a good range, not these 360* "practice facilities." I understand the standalone practice spots, but if there is a course onsite... you shouldn't need "shot value" on the range beforehand.

[jeffwarne]

Prestwick(or nearly anywhere else in the UK)- a quick stretch , a bit of kummel and off you go.


Seriously, does anyone need 6 different varieties of grass and sand?
target greens
and 2 different putting greens ,one each to match the 2 courses?
 

The whole world (golf included) got so high maintenance over the past 20 years.

Pat,
Shoreacres' range sounds nice-(that's a lot like Palmetto)
I'd wait for you while you warmed up

[JMEvensky]

Another vote for Kinloch.

[tlavin]

Shoreacres.

Unless something's changed in the last 10 years (I don't think it has), I've often wondered why they even bother.

Nothing has changed...that is why it is the best range in America. Cleared out of a forest, 30 yards wide, 200 yards long and right next to the drive into the clubhouse. Just enough room for a 4-some, nice balls, no frills. Take 20-30 swings and get to the first tee.

That is a good range, not these 360* "practice facilities." I understand the standalone practice spots, but if there is a course onsite... you shouldn't need "shot value" on the range beforehand.

I absolutely love Shoreacres, but I really thought you were joking, Pat, when you mentioned it in this thread.  The "range" is the only mistake on the property.  They had a chance to buy some adjoining land from a member who was willing to give the club a good price, but the club somehow managed to goof it up, so they're stuck with the small chute that is squeezed in between a forest and the club driveway.  I recognize that a lot of the old courses are stuck with inadequate practice facilities, but this is right up there with the worst in Chicago, right alongside Ridge and LaGrange.

The best in Chicago that I've seen is Conway Farms.  Cog Hill has an excellent facility and among the older private clubs, North Shore and Knollwood have solid facilities.

[Tom Huckaby]

A rare chance for me to go Mucci on someone!  JW - please take this in a spirit of friendly stuff-giving.. I am smiling and winking as I say all of this....

Seriously, does anyone need 6 different varieties of grass and sand?
target greens

in the case of Stanford, they have that so that the team may prepare for whatever they may be facing the next tournament... it is really something to see. 

and 2 different putting greens ,one each to match the 2 courses?
 

I assume this refers to MPCC - didn't know they had that - but if you have the space and the turf and two differently grassed courses, why not do this?

The whole world (golf included) got so high maintenance over the past 20 years.

in the end you are correct.  Still, these things are not NECESSARY by any stretch.  Still, if you have a large membership..and the means.. I surely don't see the harm in these luxuries.

Pat,
Shoreacres' range sounds nice-(that's a lot like Palmetto)
I'd wait for you while you warmed up

funny thing is that is my style also.. back can only take so much... short attention-span also

[jeffwarne]

Tom,
Where's the Mucci color?

I think the best short game players have the best imaginations.
How do you develop imagination??? by using it.

Having to have a situation spoon fed to someone for every possible shot doesn't develop the player at all-when the situation is even slightly different(and they are all different) such a player becomes helpless.
My favorites are the players who laser or walk off yardages from 20-40 yards.
You're not born with instincts,imagination, and feel-you develop them.

drop towels at landing spots, lay clubs down to simulate green edges.
find tight or fluffy lies.

Don't get me wrong, I do like a decent short game area and love a shag range, but people's expectations have gotten way past their abilities

[Tom Huckaby]

Jeff:

That makes way too much sense and you have sold me completely.  Uncle.

BTW my color is black.  Mucci gets green.

 

[Steve Lapper]

FRIARS HEAD belongs at or near the top of any list.

It is easily in the league of PV, Metedeconk, or Bandon

[Kyle Henderson]

Bandon, MPCC, Dismal River (two full ranges, lots of practice greens, though some distance to cover between them), Stevinson Ranch, Poppy Ridge, Metropolitan (Oakland, Ca)

[Tom Huckaby]

Kyle - agreed re Stevinson and Poppy Ridge - pretty cool, large grass ranges in each case - by why Metro?

Range has grass yes, but each time I've been there it has been beaten to hell.  And I am not enamored with a short game area limited to school teams, or that one has to pay extra to use.  Have things changed there?

[Steve Salmen]

My top 3 practice places in Chicago are:
1.  Rich Harvest
2.  Conway Farms
3.  Chicago

Outside Chicago:
1.  Bandon
2.  Olympic
3.  Piping Rock

[PCCraig]

Shoreacres.

Unless something's changed in the last 10 years (I don't think it has), I've often wondered why they even bother.

Nothing has changed...that is why it is the best range in America. Cleared out of a forest, 30 yards wide, 200 yards long and right next to the drive into the clubhouse. Just enough room for a 4-some, nice balls, no frills. Take 20-30 swings and get to the first tee.

That is a good range, not these 360* "practice facilities." I understand the standalone practice spots, but if there is a course onsite... you shouldn't need "shot value" on the range beforehand.

I absolutely love Shoreacres, but I really thought you were joking, Pat, when you mentioned it in this thread.  The "range" is the only mistake on the property.  They had a chance to buy some adjoining land from a member who was willing to give the club a good price, but the club somehow managed to goof it up, so they're stuck with the small chute that is squeezed in between a forest and the club driveway.  I recognize that a lot of the old courses are stuck with inadequate practice facilities, but this is right up there with the worst in Chicago, right alongside Ridge and LaGrange.

The best in Chicago that I've seen is Conway Farms.  Cog Hill has an excellent facility and among the older private clubs, North Shore and Knollwood have solid facilities.

Not joking at all.

The range is perfect and exactly all you need before a round in order to warm up. I am well aware of the land directly to the south of the course. Even if the club were to acquire it, why bother build a "state of the art" practice "facility?" I would think a solid little par-3 course with cool greens and views of the lake would be a better use of the land, no?

I don't understand why many think that having these huge open areas with 360* of teeing ground and lifelike greens all over the place is all that useful. How many on here is actually a good enough player to fully utilize a range like that? 1%?

[Tom Huckaby]

Pat:

Try to think of these large practice facilities as a luxury. I doubt anyone here finds them necessary.  Just again, if a club has the space and the means, I sure can't see them as a bad thing.

Short game areas in particular jazz me.

TH

[PCCraig]

Pat:

Try to think of these large practice facilities as a luxury. I doubt anyone here finds them necessary.  Just again, if a club has the space and the means, I sure can't see them as a bad thing.

Short game areas in particular jazz me.

TH

That is my point. Why use 20-30-40 acres on a practice facility when you could build 9 greens and make it a short course? You could have hole distances of 30-100 yards. Would that not be the ideal "short game area?"

[Bob_Huntley]

Not one reply here has mentioned that the most splendiferous range in the world can be undone by a constant left to right wind.

Ben Hogan refused to practice in such conditions.

Bob

[Kyle Henderson]

Kyle - agreed re Stevinson and Poppy Ridge - pretty cool, large grass ranges in each case - by why Metro?

Range has grass yes, but each time I've been there it has been beaten to hell.  And I am not enamored with a short game area limited to school teams, or that one has to pay extra to use.  Have things changed there?

Huck,

I was factoring the existing facilities, not the surcharges associated with them. I certainly see your point.

Come to think of it, Haggin Oaks (Sacramento) has two practice holes that can be rented, plus a massive mat range. One is allowed to borrow three clubs at a time from their tremendous golf shop along a small bucket of balls with which to try them out. You can literally hit balls all day with new sticks for free.

Has anyone used Stanford's new practice facility? That looks awesome, though access/surcharges would again be an issue for most.

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,35915.0.html

[Kevin_Reilly]

Re: Stanfurd, the golf team's schedule is not exactly a tour around the World Atlas of Golf like the athletic department PR agency would have one believe.

Each complex is inspired by a different design style that Stanford's men's and women's intercollegiate teams play on a regular basis.  Driving the design concept for what have been tabbed the "Road Game Greens" was the objective to provide practice conditions most realistic to those players encounter in competition. RTJII and the Stanford golf coaching staff together settled on adopting specific characteristics of six designers: Alister MacKenzie, Pete Dye, A.W. Tillinghast, Tom Fazio, Robert Trent Jones Sr. and Robert Trent Jones II.

As an aside, I dislike all these overdone practice facilities.  In my opinion they lead to more members spending time on the range instead of on the course.  To borrow from Al Czervik, golf ranges and cemeteries are the biggest waste of prime real estate.  In place of these two sided 360 degree monsters, a normal range and maybe a practice pit where you can bring a shag bag is what I'd prefer.

[Kyle Henderson]

How are the facilities at Pinehurst?

[Tom Huckaby]

Heck of a point, Bob.  That's why it's nice to have spots on both ends - make that wind right to left....

Pat:  works for me - huge ranges are surely not the best use of space.  However again, my assumptions remain that space is not at a premium... or the space is used wisely.... MPCC again proves this in spades.  And as I looked at World Woods, they weren't hurting for land either...

Kevin:  well I have agreed all along with the great Rich Goodale, a Stanford alum who stated he is embarassed by that facility, thinking what greater good that land could have been devoted to.  However, if we do try to see it as a luxury, it remains one hell of a place.  Does it serve an actual great golf purpose?  Hell no. Would it be fun as all heck to use often, and would one improve if one did so?  Have to believe solid yesses to each of those.  I can speak to the fun part, having spent an hour there once... and wishing I had 6 hours.

Kyle - World Woods has been mentioned.. if not here, then in the MPCC thread where this began.  See my comments above also.

TH

[PCCraig]

Pat:  works for me - huge ranges are surely not the best use of space.  However again, my assumptions remain that space is not at a premium... or the space is used wisely.... MPCC again proves this in spades.  And as I looked at World Woods, they weren't hurting for land either...

TH

You could have all the land in the world, but in my point of view is that there is always a better use of land than putting in a big time range. Golfer's can enjoy and do enjoy actually playing golf. That is why people would rather go sneak in 9 holes at the Sheep Ranch than go hit the range and hit 200 balls with their driver.

As long as there is enough infrastructure to hold a group or two, you only need a few acres, a couple huge buckets of balls, and two pins stuck in the gound...you have yourself a perfect range. 

[jeffwarne]

Re: Stanfurd, the golf team's schedule is not exactly a tour around the World Atlas of Golf like the athletic department PR agency would have one believe.

Each complex is inspired by a different design style that Stanford's men's and women's intercollegiate teams play on a regular basis.  Driving the design concept for what have been tabbed the "Road Game Greens" was the objective to provide practice conditions most realistic to those players encounter in competition. RTJII and the Stanford golf coaching staff together settled on adopting specific characteristics of six designers: Alister MacKenzie, Pete Dye, A.W. Tillinghast, Tom Fazio, Robert Trent Jones Sr. and Robert Trent Jones II.

As an aside, I dislike all these overdone practice facilities.  In my opinion they lead to more members spending time on the range instead of on the course.  To borrow from Al Czervik, golf ranges and cemeteries are the biggest waste of prime real estate.  In place of these two sided 360 degree monsters, a normal range and maybe a practice pit where you can bring a shag bag is what I'd prefer.

And to think all that time I was working on pitch shots for Donald Ross greens!
complete fluff nonsense.
I'm going to concede (even if it is overkill) different grasses for a College level team that will be traveling, but different architects?

It's a wonder Tiger was able to develop such a short game without such a facility.

Tees (or a flattish area)on both ends are nice-when teaching you can switch ends and get a slicer hooking in no time

I'm with you Pat.
The UK is a prime example of this and the practice area(if there is one) is usually located out on the course somewhere between fairways.

[Tom Huckaby]

Pat:

I need to improve my writing skills.  Let's try this:

I TEND TO AGREE WITH YOU - large ranges are wastes of space.  But again, I assume all of the other cool things -= like short game areas, par three courses, whatever else jazzes one - are ALSO included.  In that case, why the heck not also have a large range?

Or to put it better... just assume the space is wisely used.

We need to show you MPCC.  If you can look at all that is there and say any part of it is wasteful or incorrectly used, then I would capitulate, saying you just see this differently than I do.

I just don't think we do see it differently at all.

TH

ps to Jeff - the Stanford facility does put the O in the word Overkill.  But it is also damn fun to spend time at.

[PCCraig]

Pat:

I need to improve my writing skills.  Let's try this:

I TEND TO AGREE WITH YOU - large ranges are wastes of space.  But again, I assume all of the other cool things -= like short game areas, par three courses, whatever else jazzes one - are ALSO included.  In that case, why the heck not also have a large range?

Or to put it better... just assume the space is wisely used.

We need to show you MPCC.  If you can look at all that is there and say any part of it is wasteful or incorrectly used, then I would capitulate, saying you just see this differently than I do.

I just don't think we do see it differently at all.

TH

ps to Jeff - the Stanford facility does put the O in the word Overkill.  But it is also damn fun to spend time at.

I can only understand when someone writes in CAPS haha. 

I understand you're point, I was just really forcing mine...sorry!

[Anthony_Nysse]

Berkeley Hall
Kinloch
Friars Head

[Scott Stearns]

1-Muirfield Village--no longer the best range, but top 10, and as the person who started the thread said, it changed the way people think abt ranges.

Old Memorial should be included-has a warm up range (meets JK's rule abt being close to the tee) short game area, and a second practice facility with two small areas instead of one big one--gives you more privacy.

Sea Island--still cant believe waterfront property can be used as a practice range

Friars Head--has it all, par 3 course, short game area, himalayas putting green-- i love this one, esp. the no tees on the short game area--makes it more of a practice area than a course

I personally love spending time on the range--it clears my head after work and i can take as much/little time as i have--dont ned 2-5 hours.

Finally, the Stanford range has more utility as a recruiting tool than a range---nobody needs the "road game" thing, but 17 year olds think its cool, and nobody else has one (yet).

As Jerry Jones said abt the Cowboys practice facility, paraphrasing--"We dont need all this stuff..but theres no way to know what we need and what we dont"

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