[Pete_Pittock]

  I had the privilege of watching and helping Vincent Johnson during his junior and uviversity careers. He is a class act who hasn't gotten any breaks.
  First round finished at one under par, midway in the field woth a decent chance of making the cut.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Jim Nugent,
Simply put, it's unfair, or abusive, or discriminatory behavior directed towards members of another race.

God only knows how many races exist today, so there's lots of chances to discriminate. Actually if you look at it from God's perspective, there is only one race, and he kicked their sorry butts in The Garden, so I guess that means the Knicks are responsible for most of it.
 

[Craig Sweet]

Craig E...you said you "believe a majority of Americans don't give racism much thought.."

That, I believe was the whole point of the AG's speech...we do not talk about racism near enough in this country.

I also think it is very easy for white people to claim there is no racism in America because they never experience it personally.

Anyone remember the book Black Like Me? 

[Mike Sweeney]

The bottom line is that those who long for an utopia where all the races and cultures will set aside their differences, hold hands, and sing "We Are The World" will be terribly disappointed. 

Lou,

I for one am against that. In an attempt to keep this from thread from getting deleted, that is like playing a Fazio course everyday of your golfing life!

I went to St Joe's Prep in Philly and in addition to learning some Latin from the Jesuits, I also learned:

1. How to ride the #2 bus as a white kid with a tie and jacket riding through Black neighborhoods in North Philadelphia. My teachers were "Foothead" and "Sam", Black classmates of mine who I recently saw at a 25 year reunion. Foothead had not changed a bit. 

2. The South Philly Italian kids taught me how to bet on pro and college football. Needless to say I got smoked!

3. The Northeast Polocks taught me how fight, but not so well.

4. The rich suburban kids taught me where to buy pot.

Reality is the Jesuits treated everyone equally and my buddy Paul, who ultimately got tossed from "The Prep" but ended up a year behind me at Boston College got tossed for being a pot head and his Dad was the main source of scholarship money for the school. He cleaned up his act after he got tossed.

Everyone has a story. Some are tougher than others and the question is how do you respond?

PS. The current Mayor of Philadelphia was my brother's class at The Prep and he supported Hillary at first over Obama:

[Craig Van Egmond]

Craig Sweet,

     My point was that we don't talk about it, because we aren't racists, we don't make race/color/sex etc an issue.

     Actually I think we talk about racism way too much, it is in our face all the time and especially with this last election.  In corporate America and University settings we have had diversity training for as long as I have been in the working world. It usually comes down to white males are responsible for all the worlds ills. 

[Jim_Kennedy]

It is ironic that 2 people who live in some of the least diverse states like Montana and Connecticut are talking up the we are all racist stuff

As far as Ct. goes, you don't know what you're talking about

[Craig Van Egmond]

Its all good... nothing to see here..

[Craig Sweet]

Craig E...

We have a sizable Native American population in Montana...according to census about 12% of us are non white.

Frankly, I think a lot of racism is built into our society...right along with gender bias...and if asked, a majority of Americans would deny it exist.

[Jim_Kennedy]

As I said, you don't know what you are talking about.
                                      
White/ non hispanic    74.8              
Hispanic                      11.2
Black                            10.2
Asian                            3.4
Indian & Eskimo            0.4
Hawaiian                       0.1

Percent of population that is foreign born     10.9

......and by the way, don't accuse me of "talking up the we are all racist stuff." because just like your post about diversity shows, you don't get your facts right.

[Craig Van Egmond]

Craig S,

I agree that there a bunch of small minded people of all backgrounds, color and sex who are racists, but I also believe it is a small minority and that the majority of Americans are not racists.

[Craig Van Egmond]

Jim,

    Since I had no idea you were from Connecticut then I couldn't be talking about you. I was referring to BK.

    I fixed the numbers and I take back what I said about your fine state.





 

[Jim_Kennedy]

We don't exclude Dr. Klein from using the same set of figures. 

[George Pazin]

Frankly, I think a lot of racism is built into our society...right along with gender bias...and if asked, a majority of Americans would deny it exist.

Congrats on perfectly illustrating Gib's point.

[David Botimer]

David,

I think people of your ilk cling stubbornly to past grievances because it is easier than admitting that racism is finally in the rear view mirror and getting smaller by the minute . . . . .

           

Gib,

You might have missed the real angle of my attack when I said the sponsor can ask whomever he damn well pleases.  My suggestion of a minority in every tournament including the Masters was to note that sponsors are allowed the opportunity to pick a few favorites to be included in the field.

For example, a friend of mine gained entry into a couple Nationwide events by being the club champion of the host course.  Let's call that the "I can beat hackers" exemption.  In another case, a friend of mine is granted exemption into a Nationwide event because his college teammates father is a top executive at the title sponsor.  Let's call that the "I know a guy" exemption.  Sometimes you will here of the club pro of the host course playing in the tourney.  Let's call that the "I am the guy" exemption.  Then there's the John Daly type exemption.  We'll call that the "I sell tickets" exemption.  Then there is of course Annika and Michelle.  We'll call that the "I sell tickets AND I'm a novelty" exemption.  At the Masters, the US Am, British Am and US Am Publinx winners are invited.  We'll call that the "I'm gonna be somebody" exemption.  Then of course there's the US Am Runner up.  That would be the "I'm ALMOST somebody" exemption.  With the Mid Am winner exemption that would be the "I could have been somebody" exemption.  Of course, there is also the special foreign invitation, this year given to Ishikawa of Japan.  This would be the "I'll help grow the audience" exemption.  Then, just to end this charade on a high note, my personal favorite, the lifetime champions exemption, a/k/a "I used to be somebody" exemption.

The last I checked, for a regular tour event the sponsor could give out 4 exemptions to current tour players too low on the priority list to get into the tourney, plus 4 exemptions to WHOMEVER THEY DAMN WELL PLEASE (oh, he/she SHOULD have the game to justify this also, presumably a +2 handicap or better).

Now, my suggestion that a black or minority SHOULD be invited to every tournament might have been a LITTLE less than 100% sincere, but I am 100% sincere in suggesting that they COULD probably be as deserving as the current list of special exemptions.  Let's re-summarize the list:

1.  I can beat hackers
2.  I know a guy
3.  I am the guy
4.  I sell tickets
5.  I sell tickets AND I'm a novelty
6.  I'm gonna be somebody
7.  I'm almost somebody
8.  I could have been somebody
9.  I'll help grow the audience
10.I used to be somebody

And lastly.......

11.I'm a minority and could help grow the game.

You are 100% CORRECT, that pesky #11 is a real insult to the first 10 on my illustrious list of deserving special exemptions.  God forbid taking Gary Player's or Larry Mize's spot at the Masters given their ability to be competitive.  My friend who was the club champ?  He shot +14, +16 to miss the cut both years.

For the record, I'm a conservative who believes affirmative action does more harm than good in the world.  Yet we ARE talking about a game, paid largely by sponsors who, for their investment of millions ask a few favors, including, "Can I invite a few players of my personal interest?"  Given that scenario, and the rules which say 4 of their invitees can be "WHOMEVER THEY DAMN WELL PLEASE", I say "Sure, how about the guys in category 11 occasionally?!"

Oh, and about me clinging "stubbornly to past grievances"?  Uhhhh, you've got the wrong guy!

[Mike Sweeney]

Craig E...

We have a sizable Native American population in Montana...according to census about 12% of us are non white.

Frankly, I think a lot of racism is built into our society...right along with gender bias...and if asked, a majority of Americans would deny it exist.

Craig,

It is estimated that there are 170+ different languages spoken by students in the New York City school system. We barely understand each other to have racism. Add in the gays, cross dressers and transsexuals and it makes gender bias difficult to figure out too.

In case you don't understand my point, classifying "our" society as it relates to mine and your daily lives is a real stretch.

[Craig Sweet]

George...

I thought this was Gib's point:

"We all need to get past the idea of harping on past racism against African Americans and move forward. "

Getting past the idea of "past" racism is pretty difficult to do when it still exists. 

I think Gib illustrates my point...a majority of Americans deny it exist, or at the very least would like to move past it while denying it still exist.

[Craig Sweet]

By the way, here is another view of Holders speech from Melissa Harris-Lacewell

http://princetonprofs.blogspot.com/

[Lou_Duran]

Jim Kennedy,

No need for the edit.  I wrote what I was thinking.  I didn't understand the first part of your reply, the one about who was a coward.  I do not think that skin color is a big deal to a vast majority of people.  Attitudes, behavior, values, culture are what some people have issues with.

Craig Sweet,

I would have liked for the AG to have clarified his incendiary comment.  Since you seem to agree with him, perhaps you can flesh out his thinking.  What is it precisely that we should be talking about?  Who are the cowards?  White people?  Blacks?  What is it that he wants?  What do blacks want?  Reparations?  40 acres and a mule?  What should the dialogue contain?  Who needs to be involved?

I agree with Gib, George, and Craig E.   It seems that since the late 1960s that is all we've been talking about.  A number of black conservatives like Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, Michael Steele, J. C. Watts, etc. have been speaking about personal responsibility and against the yoke of "Great Society" government paternalism that has resulted in some 70% of black kids being born to single mothers and growing up largely without a positive male role model.  Their message has fallen on deaf ears for the most part and these gentlemen are called Uncle Toms and worse by the African-American community.  Look at the reaction to Bill Cosby's admonition for blacks to look internally for solutions to their problems.

If socialism and redistribution of wealth is what Mr. Holder really wants to talk about, well, we can do that but he shouldn't expect much consensus.   Government cannot replace a father.  It neither has the means nor the disposition to love a child like good, caring, responsible parents.  Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and other socialist dictators killed tens of millions of their people in their crusade to create Marx's New Man and a classless utopia.  Not only did they fail completely, today we have Vladimir Putin counseling President Obama that socialism is a sure way to ruin as the Soviet experiment clearly demonstrated and imploring him to shift course.

As one who has experienced discrimination first hand, a few times very overtly, most often subtly, I fully identify with the advice to "get on with it".  It is the human condition that some people will like us and some will not.  Government can't force my former friends in the northeast to like me because I don't hold President Bush to be Satan and I won't apologize for my conservative values.  I may not get invited to the great clubs in Long Island, but there are some elsewhere that may have me.  For every door that closes another opens provided that one keeps knocking.

[Jim Nugent]

That, I believe was the whole point of the AG's speech...we do not talk about racism near enough in this country.

Only thing is, the AG is not the national guidance counselor.  He's not a talk show host and doesn't lead an encounter group.  He enforces the laws of the United States. 

Holder has just given us, or at least me, a clear signal of where his (and probably Obama's) legal priorities lie.  This promise of a post-racial society is a joke. 

[Jesse Jones]

Damn...
I thought this was about the Sifford Exemption.
Here's the deal.
Sifford and many other blacks were kept out of the game because the Tour would not let them play.
It was then, that more of the black players should have been offered a spots in events.
But now, I'm not so sure.
I like the First Tee Program.
But there shouldn't be spots open to minorities in PGA events to "grow the game".  Sports is the one place where a competitor should earn his/her spot. I'm telling you, it won't be all that encouraging to black kids to see a golfer of their own race on Tour if he was given a spot.
Making matters worse, if invitee plays poorly, I believe it would turn kids away from the game.
I'd much rather see more minority PGA Professionals who can really reach out to kids.
It's there where you'll see change. But it will take patience.
It seems since the FT hasn't created its TW yet, folks panic and scream... We gotta do something!!
This reminds me of the Great White Hope syndrome that prevailed in boxing from the 60's until the 90's..
There was nothing worse than being a decent white heavyweight. Why? Fans, promoters and the sport's ruling bodies would literally push the white guy into a title fight for which he just wasn't ready.
Typically, the fight would be against a black champion.
While the competitors would be cool with each other, everyone trying to make a buck off the fight would fan the flames of racism and bigotry.
The fight's a sell-out, the white guy loses and then disappears under the weight of disappointment and shame.
I do not want to see black golfers is this situation.
I want to see kids from the inner city first have the opportunity to learn the game.
I want them to be able to play in high school and win championships.
I want them to go to college and become great men and women who just happen to be superior golfers.
I want those who have the skills be able to play in the mini tours, graduate to the Nationwide Tour and EARN their spot at the highest level of the game.
See, there are no short cuts here.
Just doors of opportunity that continue to open as one raises their own game as a human being.
And if you choose not associate with a black person who has reached some of those goals, based their color of their skin, then who's the real loser?

[Mike Sweeney]

Jesse,

Any insight as to why GCA.com does not have many members who are minorities in general and black guys specifically?

[Sam Maryland]

does anyone here know Charlie Sifford?

what's he like?

edit:  I see Tim W. had a passing acquaintance with Charlie, anyone else?

[Craig Sweet]

Jim Nugent...

You realize this was a Black History Month speech and he is probably the second highest ranked black in government?

The speech had nothing to do with law enforcement, and everything to do with his view on where we are in America when it comes to racism...

Lou...yes, I agree with Holder...the majority often dance around any deep discussion of race...I agree we tend to leave the discussion to the extremist on both sides...and yes, I agree we might not have the stomach (cowards?) for having a good, far ranging discussion about race.

If you read the reply to Holders speech from Melissa Harris-Lacewell, a black woman and professor at Princeton, that I posted a link to, you will get an introduction to that deeper conversation...

[Craig Van Egmond]

Craig S,

Talk is cheap.

The problems facing blacks/Africa-americans are fairly well documented.

  - 70 percent of black children are born to single women, compared with 25 percent of white children

  - Black high school graduates, on average, read four grade levels lower than whites

  - Only 17 percent of blacks hold a college degree compared with a third of whites

  - Black males between the ages of 14-24 represented only 1 percent of the population but committed almost 28 percent of homicides, and their victims were overwhelmingly other blacks.

Is racial discrimination responsible for all of these things?  How will talking about this help them? Where does personal responsibility fall into this discussion?

Holder apparently was successful in getting people to dialog about race, hopefully he will be just as good enforcing the laws of the nation. 

Would you work for/play/join a golf club that you knew had discriminatory policies? 

[Craig Sweet]

Craig E..true enough...and I think if you look at those criteria and use income as a measurement, the difference between black and white are not so great.

Did you read the Harris-Lacewell piece?

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()