News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.


Bill Satterfield

  • Karma: +0/-0
Sand Hollow Golf Resort - St. George/Hurricane, UT
« on: February 08, 2009, 04:49:20 PM »
Last month I had the opportunity to play Sand Hollow outside of St. George, UT (Hurricane) and thought I would post some pics.  The course is fantastic.  In a earlier post Tom Doak said he chatted with someone who felt it would win the Best New Course award, but told him not to get his hopes up after Ballyneal finished 6th.  There is a HUGE difference between Ballyneal and Sand Hollow; Ballyneal is Private and Sand Hollow is Public.  Finishing in 1st place in the Public category is a TON easier than in the Private category where there seems to be much bigger budgets in play.  It will be a Best New Candidate for Golf Digest this year so we'll see how well it does in the January 2010 issue.  But if Coyote Springs about an hour north of Las Vegas can finish 2nd in the Public category than I like Sand Hollow's chances of doing well.

The designer is John Fought that has ties to Utah after playing his collegiate golf at BYU.  The course is managed by Vanguard and Mark Whetzel is the Director (Vanguard and Mr. Whetzel also manage Thanksgiving Point just south of Salt Lake City).  I wasn't able to play the 9-hole Links course, but the 18 hole championship course was quite impressive.  Below are some pics:


The opening hole features a very wide and inviting fairway from an elevated tee box.  The fairway actually connects on the left side over to the 9th fairway for additional width.



The 2nd hole is a par five with several natural rock formations along the right side of the hole.  The middle of the fairway features a large bunker in the driving zone to contend with.  I decided to play the hole 3 iron, 3 iron, sand wedge before two putting for par.



The 3rd hole is just a straight away par 3 with a large green and a bit of a false front.  This view of the green is looking back from the 4th tee at the side of the 3rd green.



The 6th hole is a long par four that doglegs left and then goes downhill a bit to the green.  The large boulder on the left side of the photo is in the middle of the green and is in the landing zone with a big drive from the back tees and a decent drive from the other tees.  Features like this may bother some people, but I enjoy the extra character, strategy, and memorability it offers to the hole.



The 7th hole is a fairly straight away par five the features a large knuckle in the front portion of the green which kept me on the hole an 10 extra minutes as I tried different approaches (runners, high fliers, skippers, etc) and putts with this knuckle in play.  It is a neat feature, especially for a reachable par 5 where all sorts of shots will be coming in at this green.  This photo is a side view of the hole; I wished it showed the dramatic nature of that knuckle better.



The 8th hole is a shorter, picturesque par three.  Not near as stunning as the 15th hole, but an attractive hole that shows off some of the natural features of the area nonetheless.


Side view of the 8th:
 


The back nine starts off with a par five that plays from an elevated tee down to a generous fairway and then plays back uphill to the green.



The 11th hole is a great par three that features a series of bunkers on the right side of the hole that will catch wayward shots before falling off the cliff.  The left side of the hole features a large hill that will kick balls back towards the hole.  I foolishly took dead aim at the back right flag and found myself in one of the deep bunkers, and lipped out my par saving putt.


This view shows the severe fall off to the right of the hole:



The whole back nine at Sand Hollow is just fantastic, but the stretch of holes from 11 - 15 is one of my favorite I've played anywhere.  The number one handicap is this uphill par four that requires a forced carry off the tee and features a massive cliff drop off to the left.



The 13th hole features the same drop off to the left side, but at just 320 yards you can uncork your driver and make a run at driving this green.  If you keep it up the right side with enough length, the countours will kick it onto the putting surface.


Looking back:



The 15th hole is spectacular!  There were some articles in the Salt Lake newspapers that were comparing the drama of the 15th hole to Cypress Point's 16th hole and I thought to myself, "Oh please."  Well, while it isn't Cypress Point it did at least live up to the hype of being fantastic!  On the card I think the hole says 230 yards, but from the tee we played and the pin placement it lasered out at 250 yards.  It plays downhill and features a nice landing area to the right of the green where a low trajectory shot can hit and run up onto the green.  I hung my first tee shot out to the right into the sage brush.  So I reteed and hit my 3 iron to about 10 feet and dropped the putt.  If only you could execute perfectly the first time around . . .





Matt_Ward

Re: Sand Hollow Golf Resort - St. George/Hurricane, UT
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2009, 06:28:29 PM »
Bill S:

Many thanks for the comments / pics.

I will be there sometime this spring. I like a lot of things John Fought has done with other courses.

Couple of quick questions ...

1). Have you played other courses in the St. George / Mesquite area and how do they stack up against Sand Hollow?

2). It appears many of the fairways are very wide -- is there a strategic feature for such an inclusion or is it simply to provide for wider corridors given the wind that can blow through the area?

3). Many of the greens pictures look quite subtle -- is that the case or an error on my understanding ?

Thanks ...

Andy Troeger

Re: Sand Hollow Golf Resort - St. George/Hurricane, UT
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2009, 07:55:35 PM »
Looks very cool--especially the back nine. I think the Pete Dye course at French Lick will likely be a contender in the "Best New Public" category but it seems reasonable from the photos that this would be a contender as well.

Bill Satterfield

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Hollow Golf Resort - St. George/Hurricane, UT
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2009, 01:29:01 AM »
Matt:

1.  In the St. George/Mesquite area I have played Entrada, Coral Canyon, The Ledges, Green Spring, Sunbrook, St. George Golf Club, Southgate, Wolf Creek, Oasis, and the new Coyote Springs about 45 minutes from Mesquite.  I like Wolf Creek the best in that area, but then I'd probably put Sand Hollow 2nd among those courses with Entrada and Coral Canyon to follow.  Wolf Creek is pretty high on my personal list so there is a decent gap between it and Sand Hollow, but I think it is good enough to be the new king of St. George.

If I were to quickly compare the top par 3s, 4s, and 5s of Sand Hollow to Entrada I would say the following:

Par 3s:  Sand Hollow's 15th and 11th vs Entrada's 8th and 14th.  I give a pretty easy nod to Sand Hollow here, although I really like Entrada's demanding 14th hole.

Par 5s:  Sand Hollow's 2nd and 7th vs Entrada's 9th and 16th.  I pretty easy nod the other way in this category and think Entrada takes the cake here.

Par 4s:  Sand Hollow's 9th, 12th, 13th, 14th, and 16th vs Entrada's 2nd, 10th, 13th, 17th, and 18th.  If I were to pick from favorite holes from this ten hole offering I would take Sand Hollow's 12th, 13th, and 14th coupled with Entrada's 2nd and 17th holes.  Interestingly I would probably then select Entrada's 13th and 18th next coupled with Sand Hollow's 9th, so it is pretty close there but I give the edge to Sand Hollow.

When you throw Coral Canyon into the discussion I would say their best par 3s (6th and 17th) don't compete with Sand Hollow but are comparable to Entrada's.  Coral Canyon's best par 5s (2nd and 14th) don't compete with Entrada but are not quite as good as Sand Hollow's.  Coral's par 4s (5th, 7th, 8th, 9th, and 15th) it compares favorably, but falls just a touch shot of Sand Hollow and compares favorably to Entrada.  The stretch of holes 7 - 9 is a very nice stretch of par fours.

So in conclusion, I think Sand Hollow is a touch better than Entrada and Coral Canyon, but that gap is much tighter than the gap between Wolf Creek and Sand Hollow.

2.  I think the wide fairways are a combination of needing generous playing conditions as a resort course as well as the wind that can rip through that area.  The wind was blowing a decent amount the day I played and from what I hear from locals in the area it can really get going at times.  Also though, there is certainly strategy in the width offered.  For example, on the 2nd hole there is a bunker in the middle of the fairway but enough width is offered to play to either side of it if you wish.  On the 487 yard 6th hole, if you play it to the inside portion of the fairway you can shorten you approach distance but take a bunker into play on the approach and a slightly worse angle to the green.  At the 516 yard par four 14th there is a more advantage to bombing your drive up the right side of the fairway where balls will bound to the left and well down the fairway and probably gain a 50 yard advantage over a tee shot up the left side of the hole.  In the end, I think the wide fairways are more of an accomodation to the wind and playability, but with some of the fairway contours there certainly situations where the width of the fairway is there to deliver some strategic options and rewards/penalties.

3.  The greens have more contour to them than the pictures I offered would indicate.  I'll post a few more pics that will show some more putting features.  In general though there isn't anything severe on the greens which again could reflect that it is a resort course and trying to keep the playability high.  Actually, you will find more interesting contours right around the greens than on the putting surfaces themselves.  Those contours offer some nice approach possibilities in a variety of wind conditions and fairway firmness as well as some deceit with false fronts, etc.

Sand Hollow 10th green (Par 5):



Sand Hollow 11th hole green (Par 3):



Sand Hollow signature 15th hole green (Par 3):



Sand Hollow 2nd hole approach shot from left side of fairway (Par 5):



Sand Hollow 5th hole green (a short par 4):

Matt_Ward

Re: Sand Hollow Golf Resort - St. George/Hurricane, UT
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2009, 09:54:50 AM »
Bill:

Many thanks ...

Appreciate the cross comparison process you provided.

Really does help me understand your thinking.

I like plenty of what John Fought has done. His work at The Gallery (North) w Tom Lehman was well done. Ditto his work at Pumpkin Ridge.

I agree with you on the width elements -- I've been to the Hurricane area on more than few occasions and the wind has nothing to stop it. It can be quite severe and the wider corridors give playability an opportunity to remain in place.

I think Keith Foster did a good job at Coral Canyon but it doesn't have the terrain that I see in the photos you provided with Sand Hollow. The combination of holes at the Fought layout do look good.

Clearly, the St. George / Mesquite area is adding another reason why a visit there can be so much fun. The weather is ideal -- the prices are very competitive and you have Vegas located roughly 100 miles away.

Not a bad combo ...

p.s. I share your thoughts on Wolf Creek. Always entertaining and certainly not for everyone.




Morgan Clawson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Hollow Golf Resort - St. George/Hurricane, UT
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2009, 10:39:49 PM »
Bill,

Great photos!

Sand Hollow seems to have a more natural feel to it than Entrada.  I played out there several years ago. Entrada had a few holes with water that seemed a bit contrived.  And some of Johny Miller's fairways got really tight in spots.  But, the string of lava holes on the back 9 are pretty spectacular.

Thanks again...

Mike_Cirba

Re: Sand Hollow Golf Resort - St. George/Hurricane, UT
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2009, 11:21:50 PM »
Bill,

Thanks for the photos...I really love the way it lies low on the ground.


Matt_Ward

Re: Sand Hollow Golf Resort - St. George/Hurricane, UT
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2009, 12:10:56 AM »
Bill:

Do you have any course rating / slope info for the course from the different tee boxes?

Thanks ...

p.s. The best three holes at Sand Hollow are ...

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Hollow Golf Resort - St. George/Hurricane, UT
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2009, 04:31:17 PM »
...
The whole back nine at Sand Hollow is just fantastic, but the stretch of holes from 11 - 15 is one of my favorite I've played anywhere.  The number one handicap is this uphill par four that requires a forced carry off the tee and features a massive cliff drop off to the left.



The 13th hole features the same drop off to the left side, but at just 320 yards you can uncork your driver and make a run at driving this green.  If you keep it up the right side with enough length, the countours will kick it onto the putting surface.

...

Isn't this just more of the same old RTJ era stuff that Geoff S and others have been trying to discredit and enlighten the public about? If a bunker is a half shot penalty, then how large is tthe penalty for these cliffs? IMHO, the best use of these cliffs would be to turn them into cart-baller jumps and drive herds of cart-ballers over them. Let the wild west reign supreme! ;)

"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Kirk Gill

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Hollow Golf Resort - St. George/Hurricane, UT
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2009, 05:42:12 PM »
A simple thing like using that sand color really aids in the feeling of the course in these pictures - helping the tie-in to the surrounding area. The cliff-side holes  seem of a very different character than the earlier holes - is that a feeling you got playing there, or does it all "hold together" for you? That first fairway is WIDE !
"After all, we're not communists."
                             -Don Barzini

Bill Satterfield

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Hollow Golf Resort - St. George/Hurricane, UT
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2009, 07:30:49 PM »
Bill:

Do you have any course rating / slope info for the course from the different tee boxes?

Thanks ...

p.s. The best three holes at Sand Hollow are ...

Mens -
Black Tees:  7315 yards, 73.7/137
Blue Tees:  6893 yards, 71.9/133
White Tees:  6462 yards, 69.6/126
Gold Tees:  6060 yards, 68.1/116

Ladies -
Gold Tees:  6060 yards, 72.8/124
Red Tees:  5306 yards, 68.6/114

David_Elvins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Hollow Golf Resort - St. George/Hurricane, UT
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2009, 07:35:48 PM »
Bill,

Is the course as narrow as it looks?

Ask not what GolfClubAtlas can do for you; ask what you can do for GolfClubAtlas.

Bill Satterfield

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Hollow Golf Resort - St. George/Hurricane, UT
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2009, 07:36:38 PM »
Matt, what are your thoughts on Entrada and Coral Canyon?  When I first played them I felt Entrada was overhyped and thought Coral Canyon was the better course.  The second time I played them I felt the gap was closer but still gave Coral Canyon the nod.  The third time I played them I gained some additional appreciations for Entrada that creeped it up in my opinion of the course and now I like it a bit better.  They are both pretty close for me.  The topography differences are fairly major for courses that are so close.  Anyway, I would enjoy hearing you compare and contrast the two.

Bill Satterfield

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Hollow Golf Resort - St. George/Hurricane, UT
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2009, 07:39:15 PM »
Bill,

Is the course as narrow as it looks?



I didn't find the course narrow at all to play.  In fact, I generally hit the fairway only 50% of the time (probably because I swing so hard) and I only missed three fairways all day when I played.  Holes 12 and 13 probably have the tightest fairways on the course and I still thought they were just fine.

Bill Satterfield

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Hollow Golf Resort - St. George/Hurricane, UT
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2009, 07:48:32 PM »
Matt,

I forgot to answer you question on the best holes.  My three favorite holes at Sand Hollow are probably 15, 13, and maybe 14.   I love big forced carries and 15 comes though there is a major way, 13 offers a risky driveable par 4 that I enjoy, and 14 gives the biggest reward for being able to place your drive in the right.  A big drive that draws towards the canyon wall will be rewarded with tons of extra roll and distance (which you need on this 525 yard par four).  Then the approach shot plays downhill a bit with a big burm wall up the right side that funnels back to the green.  I enjoyed playing some high, soft approaches coupled with some low runners that funnelled with the fairway contours.  Having both of those options I really enjoyed on that approach shot.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Hollow Golf Resort - St. George/Hurricane, UT
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2009, 07:54:25 PM »
Bill,

Now on to the important questions like:

1) Where does this come in on the Doak Scale?
2) How would you say this course stacks up to other courses you've played in both Utah and the Western United States in general?

Thanks,  ;)

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Hollow Golf Resort - St. George/Hurricane, UT
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2009, 07:57:40 PM »
Bill,

Is the course as narrow as it looks?



David,

It never is.....

David_Elvins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Hollow Golf Resort - St. George/Hurricane, UT
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2009, 08:02:45 PM »
Bill,

Is the course as narrow as it looks?



I didn't find the course narrow at all to play.  In fact, I generally hit the fairway only 50% of the time (probably because I swing so hard) and I only missed three fairways all day when I played.  Holes 12 and 13 probably have the tightest fairways on the course and I still thought they were just fine.


Thanks Bill, What about around the greens?  Do a lot of missed approaches finish in the scrup or are theire plenty of interesting recovery shots?

Thanks for posting the interesting photos.
Ask not what GolfClubAtlas can do for you; ask what you can do for GolfClubAtlas.

Bill Satterfield

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Hollow Golf Resort - St. George/Hurricane, UT
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2009, 08:19:59 PM »
David, it is a pretty good mix of greens that are bowled and kick balls in toward the green, coupled with other holes with contours around the green that kick balls away, and lastly some fairly flat, straight forward green surroundings.  Each situation delivers it's own unique challenges.  For example, in the bowl type greens there are more creative countours you can play with but speed issues come into play since your target will often be downhill from you.  The greens that repel around the outside get some creative lies but I think deliver an easier opportunity of hitting it close because your chip will play a little more uphill and stop easier as you hit it back into the crown.

Jon Nolan

Re: Sand Hollow Golf Resort - St. George/Hurricane, UT
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2009, 01:35:50 AM »
I played the Links nine yesterday.  Very, very enjoyable.  Massive greens, wide fairways, playing the ball down is possible and generally encouraged.  A few blind approaches.  Greens are full of contours with literally dozens of possible hole locations. 

Next trip to St. George I'll do 27 holes at Sand Hollow.  I want to see if the Championship course is as good.  FWIW, the staff seem to fairly well unanimously favor the Links course.

Rob Rigg

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Hollow Golf Resort - St. George/Hurricane, UT
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2009, 09:29:41 PM »
Garland - Your cart jump idea is excellent!

Bill - Is the front nine flat for the most part or are there subtle undulations? It looked a bit flat from the photos, at least in the fairways, but often the camera does not pick up all the movement.

Spectacular setting - wow.

Is it walkable?

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back