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C. Squier

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"The golf courses matter zero" - Gary McCord
« on: January 21, 2009, 07:30:06 PM »
In the latest issue of Golf World, Gary McCord says that "the golf courses matter zero, it's all about the membership around here" when talking about Whisper Rock. 

I've never been to Whisper Rock, though I hear it's quite nice.  But his comment startled me.  Would anyone join a club without giving the golf course(s) any thought at all? 
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ed_getka

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Re: "The golf courses matter zero" - Gary McCord
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2009, 07:38:22 PM »
I wouldn't. Perhaps what McCord meant to say was that the membership is so much fun to be around that he doesn't care about course (even if the course were excellent). I doubt he would have thought that before becoming part of the club and learning what the social dynamic was.
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PCCraig

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Re: "The golf courses matter zero" - Gary McCord
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2009, 09:44:06 PM »
Gary McCord is a grade-A idiot.
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RJ_Daley

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Re: "The golf courses matter zero" - Gary McCord
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2009, 10:27:59 PM »
Perhaps McCord can use that line in any promotional material if someone looking to market a new R.E. and club design and would think of him as the "signature" pro.  You gotta admit on originality it beats the old trite line of "we want a course design that is playable for the high handicapper yet challenging for the skilled player".   McCord cares zero... where is the party? ::)
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David_Tepper

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Re: "The golf courses matter zero" - Gary McCord
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2009, 11:18:03 PM »
Here is a link to the article. I think it should be read before commenting further on McCord's remarks:

http://www.golfdigest.com/golfworld/columnists/2009/01/gw20090126hawkins?currentPage=1

Clint -

I think what McCord is saying is Whisper Rock as a total entity (the ownership, the way the place is run, the practice facilities, the membership, the condition of the courses, etc.) is much more important to him and the success of the club than the status or ranking of the golf courses. This is a club that has not needed its courses to be ranked in the Top 100 nationally or the Top 10 in Arizona to be a success. The fact that it has attracted a membership where everyone has paid the $100,000 initiation fee and 40% of the members have handicaps of 6 or less is testament to the total "golf experience" there. A great golf club is not required to have a "great" golf course.

DT 
« Last Edit: January 21, 2009, 11:21:03 PM by David_Tepper »
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C. Squier

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Re: "The golf courses matter zero" - Gary McCord
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2009, 11:27:20 PM »
Quote from: David_Tepper on January 21, 2009, 11:18:03 PM
Here is a link to the article. I think it should be read before commenting further on McCord's remarks:

http://www.golfdigest.com/golfworld/columnists/2009/01/gw20090126hawkins?currentPage=1

Clint -

I think what McCord is saying is Whisper Rock as a total entity (the ownership, the way the place is run, the practice facilities, the membership, the condition of the courses, etc.) is much more important to him and the success of the club than the status or ranking of the golf courses. This is a club that has not needed its courses to be ranked in the Top 100 nationally or the Top 10 in Arizona to be a success. The fact that it has attracted a membership where everyone has paid the $100,000 initiation fee and 40% of the members have handicaps of 6 or less is testament to the total "golf experience" there. A great golf club is not required to have a "great" golf course.

DT 

Isn't noting that the club has a bunch of PGA pros as members and that EVERYONE pays another method of showing status?  It does to me, certainly shows a bit of cache compared with other clubs that may bend the rules for a celeb. 

But I digress....the quote was an easy way to pose my original question.  Possibly better stated:  Would you join the club all your buddies play at even if you didn't like the course?  (Assuming you can't just play as their guest all the time....no cheating :) )
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David_Tepper

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Re: "The golf courses matter zero" - Gary McCord
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2009, 11:58:37 PM »
Clint -

I am pretty sure McCord is engaging in a bit of hyperbole, as he often does, when he states "the golf courses matter zero."

I cannot imagine many people would join a club where they did not enjoy playing the golf course, although convenience and access might be an issue in some cases.

My own experience is that a "great" golf course is by no means requisite for having a great golf experience, nor is playing a "great" golf course are guarantee of having one.

I am fortunate enough to have access to 2 of the "great" golf courses in the world. While each is rewarding to play, I have often times had just a much, if not more, fun playing a nearby lesser course.

DT   
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Rich Goodale

Re: "The golf courses matter zero" - Gary McCord
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2009, 03:55:56 AM »
Thanks for the link to the article, David.  Except for the facts that I'd have to move to Arizona and cough up $100k it sounds like an ideal club for me.  I too agree that the quality of the golf course is far less important than the quality of the overall experience (people issues, mostly), but I will also admit that I didn't feel that way when I was younger and more foolish....
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Sean_A

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Re: "The golf courses matter zero" - Gary McCord
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2009, 08:43:01 AM »
Having belonged to 5 clubs and several societies I have come to the belief that people are people.  No matter how much or how little money is involved, group dynamics win out.  If folks are unhappy with their membership they likely haven't met the right crowd. 

Ciao
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Andy Troeger

Re: "The golf courses matter zero" - Gary McCord
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2009, 09:45:06 AM »
I haven't played them but its not as if the Whisper Rock courses are poorly thought of--one is top 100 modern and both are ranked at very respectable levels. They just might not be any better than some of their neighboring clubs.

I have a friend that works there and he's told me repeatedly that the membership and the atmosphere are absolutely wonderful. I've only made it as far as the pro shop...
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Bill_McBride

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Re: "The golf courses matter zero" - Gary McCord
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2009, 09:46:47 AM »
My nephew Michael caddies there, as well as Golf Club of Scottsdale, and says it is a terrific club with great members (i.e. good tippers  ;D ) and wonderful facilities.  High praise from Mike.
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JESII

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Re: "The golf courses matter zero" - Gary McCord
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2009, 09:53:35 AM »
The relative quality of the course would be pretty low on my priority list when considering a primary club to join...why should it be at the top of the list?
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Mark Smolens

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Re: "The golf courses matter zero" - Gary McCord
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2009, 09:55:50 AM »
There is a maximum tip for caddies at WR (it's either 40 or 60 dollars), and if you try to give them more, they won't take it. 

It's a great place.  The Upper Course (done by Fazio) is loads of fun, and it was pretty cool to hit balls on the range next to Miller Barber.
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Mike Bowline

Re: "The golf courses matter zero" - Gary McCord
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2009, 10:19:08 AM »
Quote
  and it was pretty cool to hit balls on the range next to Miller Barber.

Next to X, your swing probably looked like Tom Purtzer's
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Mike_Young

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Re: "The golf courses matter zero" - Gary McCord
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2009, 10:26:38 AM »
I think it was an ANGC member that was talking with a guest who was complaining of the membership at his home club.....his comment back to the guest....." our membership is the same as yours except for their mode of transportation" ;D
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"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

PCCraig

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Re: "The golf courses matter zero" - Gary McCord
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2009, 10:29:24 AM »
Sure they probably have a great membership...but do they bikini wax the greens?  ;) ;D
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archie_struthers

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Re: "The golf courses matter zero" - Gary McCord
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2009, 11:08:32 AM »
 

Hey , guys , in the words of  Heath Ledger ,


        "Why so serious"

It's pretty obvious that it's more fun to play iwth a good group at a decent golf course than a bunch of  zero's at  a great one. 

I'm with McCord

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JMEvensky

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Re: "The golf courses matter zero" - Gary McCord
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2009, 11:16:52 AM »
Isn't this just a high-level example of the question "would you rather belong to Pine Valley without knowing anyone or XYZ local club where all your friends play?"?
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archie_struthers

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Re: "The golf courses matter zero" - Gary McCord
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2009, 11:33:32 AM »
 ;D ;) 8)


Mike Young....there is a famous Augusta story regarding Jackson Stephens , the Arkansas maverick (lol I love that word)

Stephens happened to overhear a member bemoaning the fact that there was no "action" at Augusta, that all these big shots wanted to play for was a one or two dollar nassau ...

Stephens , hearing his lament,  called him aside and asked about the action statement , and  the  fairly new member, caught off guard could barely muster an answer... stammering that at his home club they had a pretty robust game  ...... Stephens thought for a second, then reached in his pocket  , pulling out a coin ...

Mr Stephens , the story goes.  then asked the member how much he was worth , all in...  to which the answer was. .... probably around $25 million

The Chairman then held up the coin and  calmly  said,  I'll flip you for it  !               

  be careful what you wish for!
« Last Edit: January 22, 2009, 11:43:05 AM by archie_struthers »
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PCCraig

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Re: "The golf courses matter zero" - Gary McCord
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2009, 11:51:34 AM »
Quote from: JMEvensky on January 22, 2009, 11:16:52 AM
Isn't this just a high-level example of the question "would you rather belong to Pine Valley without knowing anyone or XYZ local club where all your friends play?"?

I would choose Pine Valley 100/100 times.
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Tom Birkert

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Re: "The golf courses matter zero" - Gary McCord
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2009, 11:58:46 AM »
Quote from: archie_struthers on January 22, 2009, 11:33:32 AM
;D ;) 8)


Mike Young....there is a famous Augusta story regarding Jackson Stephens , the Arkansas maverick (lol I love that word)

Stephens happened to overhear a member bemoaning the fact that there was no "action" at Augusta, that all these big shots wanted to play for was a one or two dollar nassau ...

Stephens , hearing his lament,  called him aside and asked about the action statement , and  the  fairly new member, caught off guard could barely muster an answer... stammering that at his home club they had a pretty robust game  ...... Stephens thought for a second, then reached in his pocket  , pulling out a coin ...

Mr Stephens , the story goes.  then asked the member how much he was worth , all in...  to which the answer was. .... probably around $25 million

The Chairman then held up the coin and  calmly  said,  I'll flip you for it  !               

  be careful what you wish for!

Archie,

I'm pretty sure this story originates from a very famous Kerry Packer incident in Vegas when a guy at a high roller table was offering constant comments about his playing tactics...
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C. Squier

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Re: "The golf courses matter zero" - Gary McCord
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2009, 12:32:13 PM »
Quote from: JMEvensky on January 22, 2009, 11:16:52 AM
Isn't this just a high-level example of the question "would you rather belong to Pine Valley without knowing anyone or XYZ local club where all your friends play?"?

Are you friends with those people at XYZ before or after you've joined?  I think there's a difference between a 25 year old joining a club when it's likely none of their peers are members anywhere and the 45 year old joining a club where his long time friends have played for years.  The 45 year old has something to think about, whereas the 25 year old won't know many people where ever he chooses. 
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Mark Smolens

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Re: "The golf courses matter zero" - Gary McCord
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2009, 01:20:02 PM »
Quote from: Mike Bowline on January 22, 2009, 10:19:08 AM
Quote
  and it was pretty cool to hit balls on the range next to Miller Barber.

Next to X, your swing probably looked like Tom Purtzer's

I think Messrs. Troeger and Yost, my playing partners last weekend at Apache Stronghold, would disagree.  But Mr. X was very pleasant, and the Whisper Rock experience is definitely worth the effort to make happen.
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Dean Stokes

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Re: "The golf courses matter zero" - Gary McCord
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2009, 04:40:56 PM »
I've never even been to Arizona let alone played Whisper Rock. I already know I would like to be a member there.

Sounds like good golf (not rated or ranked which I really like), good golfers, great social scene, great staff that are well looked after and good weather.

What is not to like?

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Living The Dream in The Palm Beaches....golfing, yoga-ing, horsing around and working damn it!!!!!!!

tlavin

Re: "The golf courses matter zero" - Gary McCord
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2009, 04:51:44 PM »
It's the kind of place where the members get to gush over being a member at a club with a preening cipher like Gary McCord, who last said something funny when he played junior golf.  You also have the benefit of seeing Phil in his 54DDD cups on a regular basis and the occasional sighting of the Beemer doing something real nutty, like lighting his golf bag on fire.  It's a real hoot of a place.

But based on everything I hear about the golf courses, it's worth a visit...
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