[Patrick_Mucci]

Having not been there, does Seminole meet this criteria?

Joe

Probably not.  The rise on the 2nd hole and then down on the 3rd would disqualify it.

I'll add Riviera which may be a stretch.  The drive on the first is downhill but other then that, it's a surprisingly flat course.

Joel,

Would you categorize # 18 as a flat hole ? 

There are a number of elevation changes at Riviera, including the 9th green, tee on # 10 and other lesser changes.

[Patrick_Mucci]

How about Kittansett??

While Kittansett has some flat holes, it's not a flat golf course.

[Patrick_Mucci]

How about Kittansett??

While Kittansett has some flat holes, it's not a flat golf course.

Neither is Winged Foot West, Hidden Creek or Hollywood, unless your definition of "flat" permits 10, 20 and 30 foot elevation changes..

[JNC Lyon]

Don't forget to add in:

Yeaman's Hall
Winged Foot West
Fairfield CC
Hollywood CC
Hidden Creek

I don't think any of those courses qualify as flat.  One of the reasons Yeamans Hall is so interesting is because of the way Raynor uses the great rolling terrain.  There are many courses in the low country area that are great flat courses, but Yeamans is distinguished by hills that are uncharacteristic for the area.

[Sam Morrow]

Colonial

[C. Squier]

Dave, I think CGC v. GCGC would be a fun debate.  Though similar pieces of ground, they had distinctly different feelings for me. 

Wowie, wowie, wow!

Boy, I couldn't disagree more. 

I don't think I've ever played two courses that feel more alike!

In fact, when I first played GCGC, I was thinking to myself "I've never played anyplace in the US that has this feel."  And I felt that the whole way around.

Then, when I went to CGC, the first thing that popped into my head was "Holy Cow, this feel just like Garden City!"

Ha!  That's compatible.  The key difference for me was that you see every ball hit the ground at Chicago and many, many tee shots are somewhat to very blind at Garden City.  Plus playing 18 in 2 1/4 hours trying to beat the hurricane rains this summer made it pretty intimidating trying to find a line.  I can see much more similarity after the tee ball, but GC was one of the most disorienting driving rounds I've played.  Hope I get to see it again without worrying if the sky was going to open at any second.....though the Guinness on the porch watching the monsoon was fun.  

CPS

[Jeff Goldman]

Chicago Golf Club

That corner with the Redan, Eden, etc isn't really that flat.  That must have been pretty contoured because Raynor wouldn't have moved that much dirt, do you think?  That also a pretty nice hill going up to #17.  Is that supposed to be the Alps hole?

Bill,

Actually, I think the redan is completely manufactured and built up.  Don't know about the flatness of that area, but I believe that the greensite isn't original grade.

[Bill_McBride]

Chicago Golf Club

That corner with the Redan, Eden, etc isn't really that flat.  That must have been pretty contoured because Raynor wouldn't have moved that much dirt, do you think?  That also a pretty nice hill going up to #17.  Is that supposed to be the Alps hole?

Bill,

Actually, I think the redan is completely manufactured and built up.  Don't know about the flatness of that area, but I believe that the greensite isn't original grade.

Hard to argue looking at Clint's photo above.  But I do think there is a pretty good hill behind #7 (Redan) tee, the knob with trees where the Punchbowl #12 green sits along with #13 and #7 tees.  And you see the hill starting off to the right of Clint's first photo.  That's going up to the #1 and #17 greens and #2 and #18 tees.  Otherwise yes, that's a very flat site.

[John_Cullum]

I have experienced far more than my quota of flat courses, having learned the game in coastal Georgia/Hilton Head.

I don't know if it's one of the best, but Brunswick Country Club is absolutely one of the flattest. It makes Fernandina Beach MGGC look undulating. I've seen airport tarmacs with more contour.

[Pete Lavallee]

How about Kittansett??

While Kittansett has some flat holes, it's not a flat golf course.

 

There must be two Kittansetts, because the one that I played has elevation change on only one hole, the 17th falls off from landing area to green. Can you ame another significant contour on that course?

[Pete Lavallee]

I'll nominate Kittansett Club; the only elevation change there is in the mounds, which are rock piles covered with earth. The course is suprisingly strategic despite the dead flat site. The mounds in concert with sahara bunkering on the par 5's provide all the interest one needs when the wind blows. Even the majority of the pushup greens, especially the ones most exposed to the wind, have little height. The greens on the interior of the course are the most interesting. Although the course is surounded by trees, the scrub oak and pines are no larger than 20 feet tall, increasing the effect of the sea breeze.

In case you missed this.

[Philippe Binette]

The Old Course is flat overall, but so bumpy that it's hard to call it flat... I wonder if the swale in front of 5 is below sea level...

[Steve Lapper]

How about Kittansett??

While Kittansett has some flat holes, it's not a flat golf course.

Neither is Winged Foot West, Hidden Creek or Hollywood, unless your definition of "flat" permits 10, 20 and 30 foot elevation changes..

Pat:

If yours (or others) definition is "perfectly flat," than perhaps. If that is truly the case than than wouldn't the depression/rise's at 6 & 7 at Garden City disqualify it? Yes, WFW & Hollywood have a few rises and falls (mostly man-made btw), but are mostly flat by nature. Same for HC (save for #'s 4/11/18..all small shifts don't you think?). I think that adds to the brilliance of their designs!
Liberty National is flat as well....but little in the way of any brilliance there! More like Doral North!

JNC,

I'd bet Yeaman's has no more than 10-20 ft of elevation changes anywhere across that course.

[David Druzisky]

I posted a similar thread a while back while working with very flat The Arizona Country Club and many of the same courses were mentioned.  Pine Tree seems to be a great example.

There is a big difference between 'really" flat and just flat.  A course can have 30 to 40 feet of fall from one end to the other and feel or appear flat.  There are courses on properties with very little fall and only the features are built up and lakes down etc.  Talking stick had a consistent 3% grade to it before the course went in.  Perfect for subtle design features that also still drains.

The one real positive about the very flat courses is that you can really dictate hole designs as you want.  If you go into a renovation and feel the need to shift a fairway bunker back, you can without worry to natural land form etc..  In the end you can create some very nice strategic variety. 

[PCCraig]

My first thought when I saw the thread was Chicago GC.

In fact Chicago probably has the largest collection of great flat courses in the States, considering very few courses really have any drastic elevation changes to speak of. (Maybe only Shoreacres? and even that is half flat.)

[jeffwarne]

While Maidstone has some flat holes, it's hardly flat.
#1's, 18, 9,10, 14 have significant elevation change and if you eliminated them, Maidstone wouldn't be that great.
Even #8 is blind due to the elevation in front of you.

CC of Charleston is flat (and excellent) Yeaman's isn't flat (also excellent)

[Chuck Brown]

I had a number of nominees; they have all been mentioned above:  Garden City, Pine Tree, CC of Detroit.

One other to mention, a course that is rarely noted on GCA, is the Essex Golf & Country Club outside of Windsor, Ontario.  A former Canadian Open site.  A very nice Donald Ross design, and rather well-preseved.

[Jordan Wall]

Richard,

I believe you're a northwest guy.  Check out Skyridge in Sequim.  It has become my favorite course in WA state.  It's dead flat, very challenging, and some of the best greens in the state.

Mike

Mike,

Interesting you mention that.  I played it once and could not imagine anyone from here doing the same.  However, I totally agree with you.  The greens are great, the course plays firm, and I was more then surprised how wonderful it was to play.

What a little gem.

Cheers,
Jordan

[PCCraig]

My first thought when I saw the thread was Chicago GC.

In fact Chicago probably has the largest collection of great flat courses in the States, considering very few courses really have any drastic elevation changes to speak of. (Maybe only Shoreacres? and even that is half flat.)

Are you kidding?  Even if I call CGC great for the sake of argument, name one. 

Chicago golf, shoreacres, old elm club, glen view club, beverly, butler national.

Any one of those.

[J_ Crisham]

Yeah,  Dave just tell me Beverly isn't you're favorite course in Chicago!   I know you think it's overrated-to each their own. I happen to think the Jans is overrated too. At least we have Dan Ryan woods next door and weekend music at no charge.      Jack

[J_ Crisham]

Pat and Dave, I forgot to mention a flat course in Chicago that is a nice design and you hear very little on this site about it. Bob O Link. Great mix of holes-very nice set of par 3's. Fun par5's. Talk about a fun place to spend a day!                 Jack

[K. Krahenbuhl]

Beverly is far from flat.

[J_ Crisham]

Kyle,  Most of the greens are flat at Beverly-right?   But then I remember some schmoe on this site claiming Champions greens were flat-he must have played a different Champions!       Jack           

[Jaeger Kovich]

Winged Foot West not flat? Tilly himself described the property flat in his golf illustrated articles. There are only 3 holes with the slightest elevation changes, 10 and 18, because of the club house which is on the highest point in the property. The 3rd being #15 which plays down to the creek and then back up, leaving 15 flat holes. Winged Foot may appear to not be flat, but thats because of almost all of the greens are pushed up and surrounded by deep bunkers, which is why its a great course on flat land, and also the key to this "Man Sized Course"

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat:

If yours (or others) definition is "perfectly flat," than perhaps. If that is truly the case than than wouldn't the depression/rise's at 6 & 7 at Garden City disqualify it?

I never claimed that GCGC was flat.
The elevation changes at #'s 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 13, 14, 15, 16 and 17 would seem to disqualify the course as a flat course.

Yes, WFW & Hollywood have a few rises and falls (mostly man-made btw), but are mostly flat by nature. # 1, 3, 4, 5, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14, 16, 17 and 18 at Hollywood have elevation changes.

WFW's front nine is fairly flat, but, the back nine has a number of elevation changes, including # 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17 and 18.[/b]

Same for HC (save for #'s 4/11/18..all small shifts don't you think?). I think that adds to the brilliance of their designs!

#'s 4, 11 and 18 have substantive elevation changes.
As does # 12.
# 2 is more subtle.  # 5, 6, 8 and 10 also have good elevation changes.

Liberty National is flat as well....but little in the way of any brilliance there! More like Doral North!

There are some elevation changes like on # 1 and # 18.
What's surprising is that there aren't more changes given the constructed nature of the golf course.

JNC,

I'd bet Yeaman's has no more than 10-20 ft of elevation changes anywhere across that course.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()