[Ally Mcintosh]

Excuse the ignorance but can anyone direct me to the best sources of Old Aerial Photos that may have been taken of Ireland... I suspect Luftwaffe photographs are few and far between given the stance of the Irish through WWII....

Desperately need some old photographs of well known Irish links courses...

Thanks for any help you can give

Ally

[Rory Connaughton]

Ally:

  I am sorry that I cannot give you any information on aerials though the GUI may be a resource.  www.gui.ie.

I have to say I was struck by your Luftwaffe reference.  As I understand it, a fair number of Luftwaffe pilots ditched in Ireland.  Many of them were interned in my father's Dublin neighborhood for the duration. 

[Rich Goodale]

The Luftwaffe actually bombed Dublin one day in May 1941, killing 34 souls.  Just to show that neutrality does not necessarily equate to safety.......

[Rory Connaughton]

Rich:

  There are a lot of theories on why the Republic was bombed (the May 1941 bombing was not the only time it happened).  I think the leading theory is that the bombs were intended for Belfast and were accidentally dropped in Dublin and elsewhere.  Another theory is that the Germans were miffed that their pilots were being interned and the RAF pilots that ended up in the Republic were allowed to "escape" back into the North to fight another day.

[Rich Goodale]

Thanks, Rory.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

My mother grew up in County Down in Northern Ireland. Although, as part of the UK, they were at war with Germany they were allowed to cross into the Republic, which enabled them to buy many things they could not get at home. Apparently you could see both German and British sailors and airmen walking on the streets in Dublin on parole.

My grandfather, who was in the Home Guard, was looking out for German planes (spies were often flown in over the Republic to parachute into Co Down) on top of one of the Mourne Mountains when a German plane flew up the valley beneath him. He saw the parachutist jump out a few miles away, but (just like the British Army in Afghanistan) he was inadequately supplied - he had no radio. So he had to walk down the mountain and along a road for several miles to reach a telephone box. By the time the army turned up to find the parachutist he was well hidden or several miles away!

[Matthew Hunt]

The Luftwaffe actually bombed Dublin one day in May 1941, killing 34 souls.  Just to show that neutrality does not necessarily equate to safety.......

Files have come out showing that this was a deliberate attack as the Irish were selling food to the British Army and they sent up Fire engines and Ambulances when Belfast was close to flattened in Easter 1941.

Incidentally Hitler’s brother became disillusioned with his sibling in the early thirties and moved to Ireland, changed his name and married Irish women.

Relating this back to golf, there was a huge amount of American Troops based in the vicinity of Royal County Down before D-Day (thought I doubt they had much time to play golf). The Tanks divisions were based in what was then the Anesley Estate, and in the 1950’s some guy’s who were based there came back to try and buy the place and turn into a Hotel and 2 18-Hole golf courses and RCD less than 5 minutes away on the Train (the line has since been removed). The local’s were all for it until it was reveled that there would be no access to the course for them and they would not even be allowed to walk round it as they had for century. There was public uproar and the estate was turned into a National Forest Park. With beautiful forest, a large lake, loads of sweet wee ponds and some cool elevation changes there could of been a really good course.

[Rory Connaughton]

Matthew

  Sounds like the dispute over access across the Old Head only in Down the locals prevailed!

[Matthew Hunt]

A strong one-party system (Ulster Unionists) has its up-points

The Solution is simple, give locals the right to roam at times/places that don't interfere with golf and have a way to play the course that is in thier means and everyone is happy!

[Neil_Crafter]

Ally
Try this link
http://www.ucd.ie/library/services_&_facilities/library_collections/maps/aerial.html
Neil

[Ally Mcintosh]

Lovely Neil... Thanks....and Tony via mail.... will check those sources...

[Neil_Crafter]

Ally
Please let us know if you have any luck as I would be keen to find some early aerials of Mackenzie's courses in Ireland.
cheers Neil

[Matthew Hunt]

There is very little around about lesser known courses at this time.

Colt and MacKenzie and many others edited the Number 2 course at RCD, but the only features that can be credited are those of Old Tom Morris.

[Neil_Crafter]

Matthew
Richard Latham has passed on info to us that Mackenzie was brought in to advise on the Ladies Course at RCD - apparently he was the Ladies choice! It appears that his plans were not proceeded with.

[Tim Rooney]

Guys, many thanks for the history! During my first Ireland visit('79),met a German couple whose husband, sporting a very Brit accent, proudly described the tacit Republic / U Boat provisions,etc. support.Enjoyed the story more than the storyteller.

[Rory Connaughton]

Tim

  Your acquaintance may have referring to World War I.  Prior to the Easter Rising in 1916 Germany agreed to support the independence movement and provide arms.  In the end, the arms were intercepted by the British Navy.  I do believe that there were cases where Irish fisherman sold provisions to U-boats during WWI.  Although the Republic was neutral during WWII, there was a fear that Germany would attempt to seize its ports and possibly invade.  The Republic and the British shared intelligence and adopted a plan for the defense of Ireland in the event of a German invasion.  As in WWI, there was a large contingent of Irishman fighting in the British army during WWII.

[Tim Rooney]

Rory, many thanks for your information.This sage appeared very definitive with his provided proclamation.

[Rory Connaughton]

Tim:

  The sage may indeed be correct but my guess is that if U-Boats were being provisioned during WWII, it was by the odd fisherman.  It wasn't by the government and there was not tacit approval. There were German spies in Ireland during the war and elements in the republican movement that favored Germany who theoretically could have provided assistance but the government was not only nervous about a potential German invasion but also feared provoking a British invasion. As a protective measure, the government had an internment policy with respect those elements.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

During WW1 some protestants in Northern Ireland (including my grandfather's family) somehow procured German Mauser guns in case they had to fight the British to stay British! That could only happen in Ireland!

[Ally Mcintosh]

An update on this (and a question for those photograph buffs)...

There were only ever 16 luftwaffe aerials taken in Ireland (on record anyway) and none are of golf courses... I have found quite a few aerial photographs of various courses through the National Library but these are all from acute angles - some good shots however...

As for direct course overheads / plans, i have just struck lucky finding stuff through the Air Corps here... Currently, i was only looking for 5 courses and have got great photos of Portmarnock (1956), Ballybunion (1960) and Baltray (1970)... Unfortunately they had none of Lahinch and Royal Dublin was clouded over.... Neil, I will investigate further MacKenzie courses in the future if you can leave it with me but I'm really disappointed about Lahinch...

Particularly excited about the Ballybunion ones because as a golf course, it wasn't really on the map at that stage...

Anyway, the questions - All the Air Corps are giving me is one printed 11" x 8" photo of each from the original negative...

Is there any way that old Negatives can be transferred on to a digital copy?... Can Photographs be joined (some of the plans are split over two aerials)?... If not, what will a scanned version of the hardcopy come out like?

Thanks...

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