[Mike Hendren]

Can we make a difference?
Are we willing to?

I believe the 1500 members of this discussion group can answer yes to both questions. 

The Links Trust is minting money so funding is not an issue - even in these challenging economic times.  Besides, surely a few hundred grand would be sufficient.

It was not over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor and I see no reason the golf world has to live with the ill-conceived and implemented changes to this gem.

A 1500 person petition might be a good start.  Who's with  me?

Mike

[PCCraig]

And what's wrong with the Eden course as is?

[Melvyn Morrow]

Michael

Your idea, so what are your suggestions, what are the actual proposals you are promoting or wishing to debate?

If it is your intention to make a serious suggestion to the Links Trust then we need to get the majority on board and a single detailed list of suggestions/improvements.

I like the thought but getting our group behind the idea will be the major hurdle.

The Links Trust will be receptive to ideas, but the direction must be an identical letter to each Trustee given the outline proposals with a step by step guide to each modification. Anything less will not be considered. Oh don’t forget to budget the whole project as money is king and will be through the current credit crunch.

Looking forward to your comments i.e. first what’s wrong then how to correct these problems. This will be then open to the 1500 for dissection in the hope of finding a single way forward. You have a mountain to climb.

Melvyn 

[Sean_A]

To be honest, I still don't have a clear idea of what Steel did.

1. How many Colt holes cannot be revitalized because they are no longer part of the course?

2. Of Steel's holes, what is the land like?  

3. What was Steel's brief?

4. What did Steel change of Colt's work that is still played over today?

If anybody knows this stuff, I think it would be very interesting to go over the iterations of the Eden hole by hole.  I hear so much about this course and what became of it.  Its amazing there could be so much passion for what essentially was the 4th course at St Andrews, though I think at one time it was considered a strong contender for the #2 slot.

Ciao

[Anthony Gray]

   No room to make it longer. The first is a great opener. I like the greens.
Maybe add some more mounding or gorse to frame the holes a little better.

  Anthony

[Garland Bayley]

Shame on you Anthony! You wrote the GCA F-word!
 

[Mike Hendren]

You have a mountain to climb.

Melvyn 

Tennesseans have a saying:  "That ain't no hill for a climber."  

I agree that we should first establish consensus that the revisions to The Eden Course are sufficiently poor to warrant additional renovation - obviously restoration is not possible given the holes displaced by the practice facility.

IF there is sufficient support for the premise - and I agree it should be overwhelming and well documented, I defer to you and others better connected as to the most feasible and efficient course of action to follow.  

I must confess that I have only played the course once and that was several years ago.  I will review the card and my notes over the next day or two to support my comments.  I have no photographic documentation but suspect others do.   Alternatively, I'm confident we can find a "man on the ground" in Fife to squeeze off a few digital photographs.  

Kindest regards,

Mike

[Mike Hendren]

PAGING PAUL TURNER!

[Anthony Gray]

Shame on you Anthony! You wrote the GCA F-word!
 

   Garland,

  I am sorry for my language. Maybe because it is so short we could turn The Eden into a mini-Merion.

  Anthony

[Kyle Harris]

The Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

[Anthony Gray]

The Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

 That is what I learned at WVU.

  Anthony

[Eric Smith]

for Kyle...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtP3whUbgZE

[Marty Bonnar]

Any thread which combines a potential re-working of a classic Colt and the marvellous ramblings of Mr Belushi in his pomp, is good with me.

Put me down for evenings and weekends. I have my own spades, shovels and rakes.

cheers,
FBD.

A Pledgepin? A PLEDGEPIN!?!?!?

[Reef Wilson]

Fill in the pond. Anything more than that and they'll want to jack up the price on us.
Reef

[Anthony Gray]

Fill in the pond. Anything more than that and they'll want to jack up the price on us.
Reef

  Is it man-made or natural? If natural I think it stays.

  Anthony

[Reef Wilson]

Fill in the pond. Anything more than that and they'll want to jack up the price on us.
Reef

  Is it man-made or natural? If natural I think it stays.

  Anthony

I feel like I learned it was not natural at some point but maybe it is just that it is so out of character with anything on the property that I convinced myself I heard that. I thought the holes going around it were not originally part of Eden, but that could be incorrect. Regardless, that was the main thing about the course I didn't like.
Reef

[Anthony Gray]

Fill in the pond. Anything more than that and they'll want to jack up the price on us.
Reef

  Is it man-made or natural? If natural I think it stays.

  Anthony

I feel like I learned it was not natural at some point but maybe it is just that it is so out of character with anything on the property that I convinced myself I heard that. I thought the holes going around it were not originally part of Eden, but that could be incorrect. Regardless, that was the main thing about the course I didn't like.
Reef

  Reef,

 I do not know if you saw the thread on Trumps course in Scotland or not, but there is a pond on that course also. I agree ponds and links don't seem to fit. Maybe it is a drainage issue?

  Thanks Reef,

  Anthony

[Tony_Muldoon]

Check out the Donald Steel thread for more info on these points. Likely it inspired Bogey.


Well done Sean to provide some counterbalance. But I stil think there's merit in Bob's point. One thing that gets me about the Princes job is Morrison’s letters about it in Colt & co.  Repeatedly he says it will turn out to be one of the greatest courses.  I like it a lot, but really what was he thinking?  If his generation couldn’t recognise greatness then it explains the relatively few great courses they turned out.

Anyway I still hope to get to St Andrews this year for the first time.   TEP admits he's never been.  Sadly your petition will be a lot shorter than 1500.  Still aim high, it sounds like you’ve got a good cause.

[Bill_McBride]

The Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

Don't stop him, he's on a roll. 

[Melvyn Morrow]

What’s that TEP never been to St Andrews, how can anyone post that many times without being to the Course at the centre of the Golfing World.

Marty should we allow him and Tony for that matter into The Kingdom?

Perhaps we need to look at import duty for modern clubs and balls (if we can find any on our North American Cousins as they sit on them most times they play golf). Also think the courses in The Kingdom are getting rather cheap considering the weakness of the pound, so I suggest a 50% price increase as soon as TEP sets foot in GB. Makes up for his part in the Merion debate last year.

Come to think of it if TEP post that many on GCA.com he must be the one responsible for the 5-6 hour rounds in the USA, Why say it with one word when ten or twenty will prolong the debate or game.

Melvyn

[Melvyn Morrow]

Bill

Re the bombing, I think it had something to do with the confusion coming from the radio operators at the time who misunderstood someone saying that the Zero’s were Fockers. Or have I got it wrong again

Melvyn

[Garland Bayley]

I don't know about linksland in the British Isles, but there are natural ponds and lakes in the Oregon dunes land next to the sea. There is at least one natural pond at Bandon. Also, the ponds/wetlands at the Trump project are natual.

[Rich Goodale]

As I just posted on the "Donald Steel" thread, if you want to blame anybody for the new Eden, blame the Links Trust, who mandated the basic routing which exists today.  Given the land which was available to him, Steel did a reasonably good job, and he did managed to preserve the 10-12 Colt gems which we are still lucky enough to be able to play today.

[Sean Walsh]

14, 15 and 16 are the obvious starting points.

So the first issue to deal with is the pond.  We'd have to find out how necessary it is in terms of drainage, environmental issues etc.  It is out of character with the rest of the course.  I think I played The Eden 6 or 7 times but only played 14 and 15 twice.

16 isn't a terrible whole but the runway operating as the first three quarters of it is the most boring piece of architecture in scotland.

These would be the starting points IMHO

I'll write more if I can find some time,

Interesting thread, instead of just bitching about something why not put together a proposal.  We could sell it like this "Well, when the sea rises you realises the Eden and the Strath is all you'll have left"   

[Brian Phillips]

As I just posted on the "Donald Steel" thread, if you want to blame anybody for the new Eden, blame the Links Trust, who mandated the basic routing which exists today.  Given the land which was available to him, Steel did a reasonably good job, and he did managed to preserve the 10-12 Colt gems which we are still lucky enough to be able to play today.

Rich,

Are you on drugs?   

The work is not reasonable it is bloody awful. To blame the Links Trust is a cop out. An architect takes the glory when things are good so he or sh must take the flak when things are not good.  It is not good architecture no matter how you look at it.

Brian

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