[Mark Bourgeois]

I've always felt a jarring disconnect upon coming to the water holes on Worplesdon, St Georges Hill and Woking.

They just feel so wrong. These holes have in my opinion a very different feel (and obviously, look!) from every single other hole on those courses. I even would go so far as calling St G Hill's a blot.

I can see how links courses where possible sought some sort of relationship to "big water" in the play of holes.

That goes for "small water" like burns and streams on both links and early heath courses.

But for some reason ponds seem so contrived. Should a golf hole come with a warning sign and a life preserver?

My question is how ponds were seen initially by designers: as necessary evils (borrow pits, drainage) or as things worth seeking or building.

Today we take manmade or seemingly unnatural water in stride, but surely at some point it felt novel and even weird, yes? There ain't no ponds on Walton Heath.

Seems like Worplesdon's gets all the notoriety. (Didn't Darwin write about it?)

Is this Where It Began, and were ponds some sort of fad?

Hydrophobic in heathland,

[John Chilver-Stainer]

The first pond I came across was on the old plans of the original layouts of Gullane. However the pond was before the golf course - a duck pond for the village. Since the gold old days the pond has disappeared.

Sunningdale 5th is another that doesn’t deserve a pond - especially with unnatural timber boarding sides - at least make it look natural and tie it in with the woodland.

[Brad Tufts]

There is the very famous one at Royal County Down, but in the perusal of a couple books about the layout, it appears that this drainage pond was there from the VERY beginning...circa 1880s.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Brad necessary evil then not preference.

John looks like a trap door into the netherworld.  It's like the Scots woman said when asked if she wanted water with her whisky: "I've troubles enough without adding to them."

No water on a heath!

[Rich Goodale]

The original 17th at Dornoch ("Witches Pool") has always featured a pond, but of course it is very far from the Stockbroker Belt, except in August.  It does, on the other hand, have the beneift of being adjacent to the site of the last witch burning in Scotland........

[Tom_Doak]

Mark:

I always figured that pond at Sunningdale was just the quickest way to deal with a low spot that was mushy ... there are some of those hidden among the heathlands you know.

[Neil_Crafter]

I think you are dead right with that observation Tom. However, at Sunningdale, they could have made it into a less formal looking affair couldn't they?

Mark "the unbearable weirdness of ponds" - how do you come up with these titles?!

[Pete_Pittock]

Neil,
It could have come from the unbearable weirdness of writing, but, then again, from the unbearable weirdness of Stephen Colbert.

Mark,
Another pond which seemed out of place is at Ganton.

[Garland Bayley]

Seems like this thread needs a sound track by Glass.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Neil, to quote Leonard Zelig, it shows exactly what you can do if you're a total psychotic.

Pete, I know about that pond at Ganton.  As an unabashed Ganton Apologist, I simply note they did their best to minimize its impact -- not as good a job as they did hiding the reservoir they've built just up the way along the 6th.

I do believe the pond on St G's Hill does play a drainage role; the first half of the 15th has a soggy history.

Again, I can see the necessary evil angle, but was there a pond fad at any point? The one at Woking even has carp!

Mark

[Bob_Huntley]

If you don't like ponds do not play Samoset in Maine.

Bob

[Rob Rigg]

Did they have sufficient land at these courses in England to "hide" the reservoirs (if needed) by whacking a few trees, routing away from that area, etc. or is that unrealistic?

They do look very out of place, but possibly provide something that other courses in the area could not bring to the table . . . for better or worse.

[Mark Bourgeois]

If you don't like ponds do not play Samoset in Maine.

Bob

The "Pebble Beach of the East" is all ponded up?  What's up with that?

Rob, it probably has more to do with holes being dug in the lowest ground (history).

[Tom_Doak]

Rob:

Even today, it is a tough sell to convince a client to "hide" the reservoir ... he figures if he's paying for the damned thing then everyone should see it!

Neil:

It's the first artificial pond on a golf course.  I suspect they were very excited and thought it was really cool and WANTED people to notice it, sad to say.

[Tim Gavrich]

Mark "the unbearable weirdness of ponds" - how do you come up with these titles?!

A play on the title of the Milan Kundera novel *The Unbearable Lightness of Being* is my guess.  Pretty interesting book.

[Sean_A]

I don't mind Woking's pond as it looks as though it belongs.  Plus, the pond creates a different look to three other par 3s of virtually the same length.  Finally, water is in play (even a pond on the 18th) at a few other holes so it isn't a case the weird stand out hole. 

The main problem I see with ponds and water in general, is that archies want to place beaches next to them.  At least in the old says archies didn't do silly stuff like this. 

Ciao

[Tony_Muldoon]

Mark how you’d have hated this when it was first dug!


It was square, constructed for Curling.

Does the similar feature on 14/15 at Alwoodley get a pass because Dr Mac designed it?   

I take your point about the use of sleepers and the triangulation at RCD but,  BUT… drive through the home counties of England and you will ALWAYS find at the heart of any village: the green with 22 men, in white playing Cricket with the harmonious sound of leather on willow; broken by the sharp “Quacks” from the Duck Pond, right next to the 13th century Norman/Tudor church with 12 happy Campanologists ringing in the New Year. 

I.e. water is not unknown in these locales, just don’t overdo it.


(Re a fashion for Ponds? It is not appreciated that about 95% of all buildings with Moats in England had nothing to do with defence.  They were added because they conferred status on a building.)

[Mark Bourgeois]

A lesser man would note the Aussies have proper cricket grounds not duck-quacking, pond-addled bogs! (That sentence was soo much fun to write...)

A clarification: understand ponds as necessary evils, it's when they are chosen to play a starring role in a heathland hole.  The ponds on Alwoodley and on 18 Woking therefore are not a bother.

And Woking 16 green is fantastic.  But wouldn't it be better to play across a sea of heather?

Moats as status symbols...

[Sean_A]

And Woking 16 green is fantastic.  But wouldn't it be better to play across a sea of heather?

Mark

I'm not bothered either way, though I would rather see the water more in play.  I spose this would mean raising the green for flood protection.  I reckon once Colt came along with his many raised greens it wouldn't have been a problem, but Woking's greens are generally more grade level, and to be fair, I haven't seen a set of Colt greens in the class of Woking's.

Ciao

[Mark Bourgeois]

Woking's greens were an absolute revelation to me.  I didn't think a course that old could have greens that fantastic.

[Peter Pallotta]

Mark - I think it's in Tony M's wonderful sentence/observation that you may find an answer as to why those weird ponds exist:

"....Drive through the home counties of England and you will ALWAYS find at the heart of any village: the green with 22 men, in white playing Cricket with the harmonious sound of leather on willow; broken by the sharp “Quacks” from the Duck Pond, right next to the 13th century Norman/Tudor church with 12 happy Campanologists ringing in the New Year..."

The answer being, with that kind of history in hand, the Brits get to stick a pond wherever the hell they want.  In other words, when the pond at Woking gets to be nearly a hundred years old, it stops being A pond and becomes THE pond -- a royal subject and subject only to itself!

(The 'answer' won't satisfy you, Mark, I realize - but I just wanted to highlight Tony's sentence)

Peter

[Sean_A]

Woking's greens were an absolute revelation to me.  I didn't think a course that old could have greens that fantastic.

Mark

Woking's greens are most unusual for England.  I am sure they are the product of much fooling around over many years. 

Ciao 

[Tony_Muldoon]

And Woking 16 green is fantastic.  But wouldn't it be better to play across a sea of heather?

...Is it me?

Most of my Heathland golf has been played in winter or the evenings.  Take one pond, surround it with trees and you get dank cold air.  The ball will not fly.  Unless you are a better man than I ("Gunga Din"), you will not take enough club.  With luck you're ball will be dry, but you'll still have a long way to the pin on a short Par 3. 

Maybe this is true of all water holes but it seems particularly so on the holes we've discussed.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Tony, the air should be warmer above a pond in the evening, unless, being in a hollow, it never sees sun or is otherwise warmed.

And St George's Hill 14 is just plain long!

[Jon Wiggett]

Tony, the air should be warmer above a pond in the evening, unless, being in a hollow, it never sees sun or is otherwise warmed.

And St George's Hill 14 is just plain long!

Mark,

it probably the trees surrounding it that block the sun light. Also, doesn't land heat up quicker than water?

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