[Joel_Stewart]

Hint:  Nobody has played it, it opens in 2009.




The par 3 4th hole,

[Tom_Doak]

I know, but I won't say.

We did a routing for that same piece of property.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Joel,
Right click on the photos, select 'properties'. OOPS! 

Put them on a host, like flickr.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Is this the Fazio California mountain course I think you were raving about a few months ago?  (Maybe that was someone else and somewhere else, but that first pic seems familiar.)

[Peter Zarlengo]

New Coore/Crenshaw course in Tahoe?

[Kyle Henderson]

New Coore/Crenshaw course in Tahoe?

Was going to guess the same thing. That green complex in the lower photo is very similar in appearance to Bandon Trails #13.

[Joel_Stewart]

It is the new C & C course in Lake Tahoe called Clear Creek.  I suspect it will be one of the few new courses to open in 2009.

Lake Tahoe has become a real golf destination in just the last 10 years.  This course may have some advantage since it is located in Nevada giving potential owners some tax advantages.

[TEPaul]

Well, I'll be Go to Hell----it looks a like their mountain version of Hidden Creek----ie influenced by the English Heathlands----ie influenced by the world-wide undefinable English Arts and Crafts Movement----ie influenced by Horace Hutchinson through William Morris----ie influenced by the latter's dissatisfaction with the Victorian Era's bullshit architectural rennovations of cathedrals and the dehumanization of individual workmanship as represented in the Middle Ages and the prominence of its Gothic Design.

Bill Coore, and Ben, you old sons of guns, what have you been reading lately? It's some old manuscripts from the Gothic Middle Ages, isn't it? 

[Scott_Burroughs]

[Chris_Clouser]

Scott,

That third photo you posted looks like the same green complex that I have seen photos of on several other C&C courses.  A pot bunker in center front of a par five (guessing on that last part).  If I would have viewed that photo before the answer was provided I would have guess C&C based on that one piece of information.

[Kalen Braley]

The course will likely be a good track, and great fun to play but I don't think I've seen pics of a course where the bunkers look more out of harmony with its natural surrounds.  Sure its great in the old contrast dept, but couldn't they have used some neutral colored sand to help this out?

And being that the Sierras are constantly covered in Pine needles it doesn't look like anything natural is going to grow to help with the tie-ins.

[Mike Benham]

Where is the exact location of the course?

It may be semantics but I like to separate the Truckee area from Lake Tahoe.  Lake Tahoe in itself has 2 maybe 3 distinct regions that only really matter if you are trying to get from one to the other.  Example:  If you are staying in South Shore and you get an invite to play Martis Creek, plan for a + 1 hour drive on winding roads ...

[Joel_Stewart]

Where is the exact location of the course?

Its in an odd spot, closer to Incline then anything else.  It looks half way between Tahoe and Carson City which I thought was all National Forest?

[JWL]

Interesting that TD did a routing on that land.
I did a routing several years ago also.    One of the best inland pieces of land I have ever seen...lots of very natural golf holes and sandy soil in the mountains.   Very unique.
Beautiful natural stream on the property also.
If I remember correctly, I was told that the opening scene on Bonanza, where the screen burns open and the brothers ride out together, was filmed in an open valley near the entrance to the property.
I didn't think a course would ever get built on this land because of the local political scene and the land owner.
This is one that I really wanted to work on...I am very jealous.   
I hope to get to see what C&C did on the property this coming year.   That will be fun.
Cheers for the Holidays everyone!

[Tim Bert]

The course will likely be a good track, and great fun to play but I don't think I've seen pics of a course where the bunkers look more out of harmony with its natural surrounds.  Sure its great in the old contrast dept, but couldn't they have used some neutral colored sand to help this out?

And being that the Sierras are constantly covered in Pine needles it doesn't look like anything natural is going to grow to help with the tie-ins.

If Dave Miller were checking in on this thread, he'd take a second to remind us what an authority Kalen is on all things sand.

Seriously, while I agree they don't necessarily appear natural in this setting, I think we've all seen worse in terms of bunkers harmonizing with the surrounds.  Maybe that's a different thread.

[Kalen Braley]

The course will likely be a good track, and great fun to play but I don't think I've seen pics of a course where the bunkers look more out of harmony with its natural surrounds.  Sure its great in the old contrast dept, but couldn't they have used some neutral colored sand to help this out?

And being that the Sierras are constantly covered in Pine needles it doesn't look like anything natural is going to grow to help with the tie-ins.

If Dave Miller were checking in on this thread, he'd take a second to remind us what an authority Kalen is on all things sand.

Seriously, while I agree they don't necessarily appear natural in this setting, I think we've all seen worse in terms of bunkers harmonizing with the surrounds.  Maybe that's a different thread.

Tim,

But of course..you gotta get in them and subsequently spend a lot of time in them to be able to properly analyze them. 

[Mike_Cirba]

Perhaps this was a spot where C&C could have tried a bunkerless course?

The land certainly looks pretty dramatic all on its ownself.

[Peter Pallotta]

Mike - After reading your post I went back to look at the photos again. All of the contours do indeed look challenging and interesting enough in and of themselves, and in several cases the bunkers seem the friendliest places to be, i.e. hazards that will save the golfer from more hazardous places/predicaments. Maybe that was the intention.

Peter

[Matt_Cohn]

The bunkers remind me of leftover patches of unmelted snow. Anyone?

[Kyle Henderson]

The bunkers remind me of leftover patches of unmelted snow. Anyone?

Agreed.

[Jed Peters]

I'm very excited for this.

It's right next to our family's place in the Carson Valley.

Not too much of an "odd" spot, Joel.

[Joel_Stewart]

Not too much of an "odd" spot, Joel.

I'm not exactly sure of the spot even though I have driven that road probably 50 times.   As you leave the Tahoe area, you go over that massive pass and then downhill into the Carson City area.   I thought that was all part of the Tahoe National Forest.   Is the location closer to Carson City then Tahoe?

I like the melted snow look for bunkers.  Very creative although the 2nd photo I placed on the first post which is a par 3 has a very deep severe bunker on the front right.  Did Jeff Bradley do the bunker work?

[Tom_Doak]

Jim Lipe:

This would make for a hell of a comparison, then, because the only other routing I saw for the property was done by Tom Fazio ... so we'd have your routing, Coore's, mine, and Fazio's to compare.

In this case (more than most) I would be surprised if the routings were way different, because the terrain was steep enough in places to preclude playing up or down the hills.  Also, when I looked at it, the Fazio routing had already gotten preliminary approvals, so the goal would have been to improve it without having to go back through the whole process again ... and I presume that Bill was under that same restriction, because the project got going very quickly.

I never did get out on the land, though.  I did a couple of routing versions, and Eric Iverson went out to walk them and make suggestions, but our client bailed from the project after failing to reach a deal with the landowner.

[Jed Peters]

   I thought that was all part of the Tahoe National Forest.   Is the location closer to Carson City then Tahoe?

Joel:

"distance" is relative, but yes, it is closer to the costco at the base of 50 than it is to the lake.

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