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Melvyn Morrow

The Great Match between W Park & T Morris of 1870 for £200
« on: December 15, 2008, 07:30:25 AM »

Would anyone be interested in reading the reports of this Contest, well
the First & Second games. If so I will happily post them on GCA.com

To give you an idea of the value of £200 in the 1870’s it was worth the equivalent to over four years pay for average worker in the Victorian Age
or in today’s terms £25,000 a year making the pot worth over £100,000. 

Melvyn

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Sam Morrow

Re: The Great Match between W Park & T Morris of 1870 for £200
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2008, 07:33:19 AM »
This sounds very cool, I've never heard anything about this match/.
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Melvyn Morrow

Re: The Great Match between W Park & T Morris of 1870 for £200
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2008, 02:06:01 PM »

Sam

As the only one showing any interest I will e-mail you the reports on the four games at St Andrews, Prestwick, North Berwick and Musselburgh. Plus the report on the additional 6 hole replay due to confrontation at Musselburgh

Enjoy

Melvyn
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Ari Techner

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Re: The Great Match between W Park & T Morris of 1870 for £200
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2008, 02:07:11 PM »
Melvyn-

I'd be interested to see the reports as well......very cool!!
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Rob Rigg

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Re: The Great Match between W Park & T Morris of 1870 for £200
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2008, 02:08:04 PM »
Melvyn,

If you would not mind, I would be interested in reading about it. Especially if the discussions provides some insight into the 4 venues that were played.

Thanks
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Sam Morrow

Re: The Great Match between W Park & T Morris of 1870 for £200
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2008, 02:10:30 PM »
This stuff is awesome, I've been reading it today!
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Tom Huckaby

Re: The Great Match between W Park & T Morris of 1870 for £200
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2008, 02:11:21 PM »
Melvyn:

Wasn't this recounted in the recent biography?

But I loved that anyway... so please do post or send on to me also.  Thanks.

Tom Huckaby
huckaby72@yahoo.com
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Kyle Harris

Re: The Great Match between W Park & T Morris of 1870 for £200
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2008, 02:29:13 PM »
Melvyn,

I would LOVE to read this, and may end up using it in about a month with your permission.

kwh132@gmail.com
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Melvyn Morrow

Re: The Great Match between W Park & T Morris of 1870 for £200
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2008, 03:23:50 PM »

Hi Ari, Rob, Tom & Kyle

Your e-mails will be on the way soon. The following is just page 1 of game 1 out of a total of 16 pages.


Melvyn
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Paul Stephenson

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Re: The Great Match between W Park & T Morris of 1870 for £200
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2008, 03:35:21 PM »
Thanks Melvyn.  Keep them coming.  I enjoyed reading about this in Tommy's Honour.  It's wonderful to read contemporary reports.

I do have one question I know you'll be able to answer.  Where did Old Tom and Park come up with the money? Was club-making/caddying that lucractive, or were there silent backers from their respective towns?
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Melvyn Morrow

Re: The Great Match between W Park & T Morris of 1870 for £200
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2008, 05:19:20 PM »

Paul

Most of the major money was provided by backers. Plus the side bets which well exceed the prize money.  Hope that answers your question

Melvyn
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Kirk Gill

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Re: The Great Match between W Park & T Morris of 1870 for £200
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2008, 05:48:59 PM »
Interesting material, Melvyn.

Include me in, if you don't mind, or keep posting.


Thanks !
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Joe Perches

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Re: The Great Match between W Park & T Morris of 1870 for £200
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2008, 11:07:29 PM »
Quote from: Melvyn Morrow on December 15, 2008, 03:23:50 PM

Melvyn, you're such a tease...

May I please have the entire content?

cheers, Joe
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RSLivingston_III

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Re: The Great Match between W Park & T Morris of 1870 for £200
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2008, 12:27:10 AM »
Melvyn,
I would very much appreciate receiving the full text.
Thank you for offering.

Ralph Livingston

ralph@hickorygolf.com
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Anthony Gray

Re: The Great Match between W Park & T Morris of 1870 for £200
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2008, 08:16:54 AM »


  Melvyn,

  How "friendly" were these matches? Can you comment on Old Tom's and Park's relationship off the course?

   Great research!

  Anthony


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Rich Goodale

Re: The Great Match between W Park & T Morris of 1870 for £200
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2008, 08:35:43 AM »
Anthony

From what I know these matches were played within the rules by the players, but as for the spectators......  :-X

Melvyn, please feel free to correct me, but my understanding is that in these challenge matches, the players were using OPM (Other People's Money) and that there may well have been betting going on by the sponsors, fans and even participants! :o

In 1887, Archie Simpson laid out a challenge to all players of the day for a home and away match with a purse of 100 pounds.  Willie Park Jr. (1887 Open Champion) took him up on this and Archie beat him by 9 holes (out of 36) at Willie's home course (Musselburgh) and then another 2 holes at Carnoustie.  When Archie finally got a day job (as pro at Royal Aberdeen in 1891) his annual salary was 4 quid.

Often I think that one of the most class-centered/misconceived rules of the R&A/USGA is the ban on betting.  How else are we of the lower classes expected to have any fun?

Good stuff, Melvyn

Rich
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John Chilver-Stainer

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Re: The Great Match between W Park & T Morris of 1870 for £200
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2008, 08:55:27 AM »
Hallo Melvyn,

Thanks for the offer and send my anything you want - I'll even check my spam!!

johnchilverstainer@yahoo.com

Cheers
John
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Andy Hughes

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Re: The Great Match between W Park & T Morris of 1870 for £200
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2008, 09:11:52 AM »
Melvyn, I too would enjoy reading this.
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Melvyn Morrow

Re: The Great Match between W Park & T Morris of 1870 for £200
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2008, 09:17:08 AM »
Anthony

To my knowledge most of the major money was by others as Rich has advised. But side bets included nearly everyone on the course as well as the other Pros at the time - not to mention Members of the R&A.

As for Old Tom and Willie Snr, I believe it was a friendly relationship as the years progressed. In fact it was Old Tom that helped organised some matches to help Willie financially in late life. Also we must not forget that Old Tom was a supporter of Willie Jnr.

To prove Rich point below (I have a few copies of the matches in a file) is the TOC match between Simpson & Campbell just after Archie’s victory over my great grand Uncle Jamie Morris.



Melvyn

PS Andy, John will e-mails the reports to you in a few mins.
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Mike_Cirba

Re: The Great Match between W Park & T Morris of 1870 for £200
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2008, 09:22:18 AM »
Melyvn,

This is absolutely tremendous stuff.   Thanks for sharing!!
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Andrew Mitchell

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Re: The Great Match between W Park & T Morris of 1870 for £200
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2008, 10:25:19 AM »
Melvyn

From the tasters you've posted I'd like to read more.  My email is amitchell@robertshawmyers.co.uk
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Melvyn Morrow

Re: The Great Match between W Park & T Morris of 1870 for £200
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2008, 11:51:34 AM »

All requests e-mailed, none outstanding - check your e-mails for 2 x 4MB attachments.  They are 138 years old and I still have fun reading them.

These Matches are what helped make the modern game - we should all draw strength from these old guys who are getting passed their prime, yet still able to attract a large crowd and play some wonderful golf. Please note without yardage or distance aids, so it can be done and by Professionals with just Hickory clubs and gutty balls.  Those far off days when Men were Men and did not need artificial help to play golf - Tom H please note.

Its no wonder why some of us get passionate, must get into the blood!

Melvyn
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Mike_Cirba

Re: The Great Match between W Park & T Morris of 1870 for £200
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2008, 11:53:45 AM »
Melvyn,

It says quite a bit about the permanence of both golf and human nature that this ancient match was decided by a disputed ruling!  ;)

Great stuff...thanks for sending.  ;D
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Sébastien Dhaussy

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Re: The Great Match between W Park & T Morris of 1870 for £200
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2008, 02:53:15 PM »
Melvyn,

Count me in those interested by the entire text. And thanks for this early Christmas present  ;)

Great stuff.



« Last Edit: December 17, 2008, 04:10:48 AM by Sébastien Dhaussy »
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Tony_Muldoon

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Re: The Great Match between W Park & T Morris of 1870 for £200
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2008, 05:37:35 PM »

Melvyn please include me on the list of eager recipients.

Can you please tell me what you know of the famous match at North Berwick where news was received of the difficulties in child birth of Young Tom’s wife?

As I recall it the version in Tommy’s Honour has OTM being given the news on the 16th tee but him holding this back form his son.  I’ve read similar accounts and they all seem a  bit ‘Hollywoodish’ to me. Do the facts support this version?

Thanks Tony
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