[Lou_Duran]

"Whitty",

Do you have a feel for the general acceptance of pull carts, electric or manual, in South Carolina?  At my former home club in north Texas, hardly upscale, the manager said that they would never be accepted because they give the place a muni look and feel.  I am glad to hear that a more upscale club like Lakewood now allows pull carts.

Melvyn,

I don't think you take the "high moral ground" at all.  You just have a very strong, parochial, limited view of what golf is and don't have much tolerance or appreciation for those who might love the game just as much as you, but with different preferences.  Just be happy that you can love the game so "purely" while others get equal enjoyment from its less traditional attributes.  One of the great aspects of the game is how easily and intensively it can entice us in many different ways.  We even have a couple of folks on this site who are great aficionados and they seldom if ever play.

JNC,

The claim that riders are slower than walkers is nonesense.  Holding everything else equal, riders will play faster than walkers.  Cart paths only combined with inclement weather might be an exception.

There are many walkers who don't have a clue, and it is inarguable that it takes longer to get from point A to point B walking than riding.  I've played behind many fivesomes that I never saw again after the first hole.  I've watched walking threesome hit nearly all their shots while playing behind them.  It all comes down to common courtesy whether walking or riding.  My preference is to play in three to three and a half hours walking.  Unfortunately, I seldom have a course to myself with partners who wish to play at that pace.  I have a choice to let it upset me or slow down and enjoy other aspects of playing golf.  And in many metro areas like in CA and NY the speed of play is a moot point when it comes to daily fee golf; five hours plus is the norm.

Kyle,

You have a point.  And if it wouldn't be for Augusta National, Pebble Beach, Cypress Point, Chambers Bay, etc. there wouldn't be a need for the $20 Million golf course and the high dues and green fees that go with it.  Or if there weren't automobiles we could still be riding horses; no planes and we would be going home for Thanksgiving in trains.  I suspect that you can still find courses where you are allowed to walk.  And proportionally, I bet courses which don't allow walking are relatively few.  Perhaps one of the upsides of these crappy economic times is that course operators will have to become more flexible and inclusive.

Eric,

Are you really that easy to offend?  BTW, I am over 50, 35 pounds overweight, and normally walk even when carts are available at no extra cost.  The two posters generally spell out the realities in golf; Kavanaugh in his usual provocative and at times insightful manner.

[Tim Liddy]

Eric,

Sultan’s Run was a remodel so you have to give me a pass on its walk-ability.  It probably has an overall elevation change of approximately 100 feet so would be relatively easy to make very walk-able if I would have had the chance to route it originally.
It is a wonderful site for a golf course and is very good, but I think it could have been much better if  more thought was given to its original routing.

Tim,

Sorry about the management issues at Wintonbury.  That is the first I have heard of it and am surprised. I still have a few contacts in the area and will check it out to see if this policy has been corrected.

[Kyle Harris]

Lou,

Sorry, I didn't bring my skis to navigate that slippery slope argument.

I think it's a major problem when I can't walk one of Golf Digest's "Best New Municipal" Courses. We agree on a lot of the nuts and bolts of golf course operations, but the retort that I can find another course to walk is bull. My preference to walk should not limit my access to any course.

[Michael Blake]

I used to call Lederach weekly to ask for the walking rate in order to at least give the perception that people would want to walk - but it's been three years and carts are still mandatory with no walking rate.

Funny, Kyle:

I used to make those same phone calls to Lederach in hopes of the same result.

And I always got the same reply, "Great news!  It doesn't cost ANY EXTRA to take a cart."

Carts are not mandatory though.  I've walked it a number of times.

[Tim Bert]

My preference to walk should not limit my access to any course.

Nor should your preference to play golf wearing jeans, pajamas, or a bathrobe...  

[Kyle Harris]

My preference to walk should not limit my access to any course.

Nor should your preference to play golf wearing jeans, pajamas, or a bathrobe...  

I am hitting the gym in earnest this winter in the hopes that a Speedo round can happen sometime in July.

Probably at Squires.

[Chris Cupit]

IMHO golf is basically lost right now....with not much direction.....so many of our courses from the last 20 years are not built for the game as much as they are an amenity to housing developments and resorts......if most had to operate solely as golf courses and not lost leaders they would never make it.......we talk about how many core golfers are out there.....BUT I have never heard this question answered directly and independent of all the other jibberish......  HOW MANY GOLFERS WOULD ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME TODAY IF THEY COULD NOT RIDE?  My assumption is that if it were not for the golf cart the percentage of our population that plays the game has decreased significantly.  Not sure the DG can realize that but it seems to be the norm around the places I see.

Great thoughts for a Bulldog   I am afraid you would lose a significant amount of play in our country.  As you mentioned many courses designed today were built to sell homes and are virtually unwalkable.  In fact, one way courses in the states are given "Holy Grail" status is if they were designed to be walkable   Kinda basakwards if you ask me but my guess is that most of the courses in the US would be difficult to walk versus courses in the UK for example.

My course allows walking at no charge but few people walk.  My seniors account for a significant group of players and if they had to walk they could not play.  If I have to keep carts on the paths I will lose 30% of my play for sure!

Courses are also dependent on the revenue carts bring in and it would be like trying to take crack away from an addict if you banned carts.  My guess is if for some reason golf cars were banned tomorrow you would see 50-70% of Atlanta courses go under or have to completely re-strucutre and re-think how they would survive.

A sad but true fact of golf in Atlanta.

PS  I had a handicapped parent so I compeltely appreciate the NEED of many to have a cart.  As a business owner I say we need to make the game more accessible and more enjoyable for as many people as possible even if my personal preference is to walk.

[Lou_Duran]

Kyle,

Is the "slippery slope" argument similar to the"moral hazard" problem in bailing out private companies?  If so, I didn't mean to be so philosophical in trying to answer Mike Young's initial inquiry in the affirmative.

I am not real big on the evolution of all sorts of new rights and entitlements.  In the universe of "major problems", mandatory riding at a minority of golf courses is not found.  Bull?  Surely you can find courses that you can walk where you live.

I do find it very regrettable that ANY golf course would require cart use where a walker can keep up with the golfers in front of him.  I detest being forced to pay for something that I don't want.  And it upsets me that I can't get access to Cypress Point, Merion, Oakmont, Pine Valley, etc.   But such are the facts of life and I don't think golf is going to hell as a result.

[Matt_Ward]

JNC Lyon:

BB doesn't allow carts because of insurance reasons tied to the fact that carts would need to cross a public road (Round Sawmp) when crossing from the 14th green to the 15th tee. You also have the issue that if carts were used the very fragile nature of the terrain on the Black could be at great risk for harm and costly remedial efforts.

In addition, Bethpage can handle the "loss" of carts on the Black because the other four (4) courses can use them.

[Lloyd_Cole]

Regarding pull carts and their déclassé (note copy and paste from Mac Dictionary application actually gives me the acute accents I cannot type) connotations - I was pleasantly surprised to see that Merion has nothing against them. They have the usual 'top course' cart or caddy rule on the East during peak hours, but you can, if you like, take a pull cart at other times - the club even keeps a few for members' use. And, I'm told, quite a few members regularly utilise them on the West where there are no restrictions as to their use.

[mike_beene]

It seems like two games to me.When I go somewhere where everyone rides I ride also.I don't enjoy it as much but I have gotten over being angry.I will not ride my home course.I do need the exercise and the escape from a four hour living room visit.In the summer I pay the $10 to rent a push cart.Call me cheap if you want but it works for me.People generally wont pay for caddies at our club and several efforts didn't work.May be finances,but I think people just want to be on their own.

[Rob Rigg]

Golf carts are critical to the game today in the US which just goes to show you how bloody lazy many people are in this country, and it is a poor reflection of how the game is changing globally as the cart epidemic is spreading.

Game 1 - Golf
Game 2 - Cart Golf
Totally different game.

I understand why carts are used for RE communities and in certain locations where you need to be a mountain goat to get around but I still think they are BS. It makes sense economically, but that does not mean it was ever the best thing for the game.

Cart paths are eyesores - simple as that. They either compromise or ruin the aesthetics of most courses.

Players should be able to walk unless they have a serious medical condition. Push carts, pull carts or Electric push carts, it's pretty straight forward. Most courses are only a few miles, it's not like you are running a marathon. For people with conditions who have to take a cart - the wear and tear on the course under normal conditions would be minimal so it's no big deal.

People say carts are better for business - challenge! - you get just as much or more "face time" walking a course.

I grew up playing golf in Ireland on a rather hilly county course. Everyone from the age of 6 to 80 walked the course. There were no caddies, except for tournaments, and everyone managed to get around just fine. I believe they called it exercise, but people walked because that is how the game was intended to be played.

The course I played at through high school and college in Toronto is a freakin' goat track. At least 75% of the membership walk the course. It was tough but rewarding, because you can actually take in the environment and aesthetics instead of driving past them.

How can you appreciate the GCA of a course from a cart?

I know, most people do not care about that. Golf is about chugging beers, smoking cigars and getting away from the wife for a few hours.

O wait, that is Cart Golf - different game altogether.

[Mike Golden]

90% of people who walk and carry or use a push cart do so because they are cheap. 

Based on the ravings of the author on this site, at least 90% of the concrete contractors in the US are idiots.

[Anthony Gray]

Anthony

So, if the carts were all lost, destroyed perhaps by some green avenger, couldn't you play the course?

Wouldn't you  all be walking the same distance from green to tee, so pace of play wouldn't be  compromised, relatively.

Frankly, this is a future I might get a little tickle from... would the course then be labelled 'impossible to walk' or just 'crap'?

  My home course goes threw a houseing developement and is impossible to walk because of the distance between the holes.

  Anthony

  The average round would increase by at least one hour If you had to walk.

      Anthony

[Anthony Gray]

I guess I would have to lose more weight...Actually, I'm doing that anyway, but if I was disabled or something, I would learn how to crawl really good..... It might take me 8 hours to play a round, but I'd crawl 5 miles to play golf.

  There is hope for me. And all this time I thought I was alone.


       Anthony

   

[John Kavanaugh]

90% of people who walk and carry or use a push cart do so because they are cheap. 

I don't think any of you would disagree that those of you who post on this site and walk&carry are in the top 10%.  I was unusually careful to not be uncomplimentary.

[Lloyd_Cole]

Fair enough Anthony. But this type of course, this type of business model does differentiate itself from a golf course. It is a Cart Golf Course. We can argue all we like about whether one or two games are being played, but I'd say it is pretty clear that some courses are not golf courses.

Anthony

So, if the carts were all lost, destroyed perhaps by some green avenger, couldn't you play the course?

Wouldn't you  all be walking the same distance from green to tee, so pace of play wouldn't be  compromised, relatively.

Frankly, this is a future I might get a little tickle from... would the course then be labelled 'impossible to walk' or just 'crap'?

  My home course goes threw a houseing developement and is impossible to walk because of the distance between the holes.

  Anthony

  The average round would increase by at least one hour If you had to walk.

      Anthony

[Sean_A]

90% of people who walk and carry or use a push cart do so because they are cheap. 

I don't think any of you would disagree that those of you who post on this site and walk&carry are in the top 10%.  I was unusually careful to not be uncomplimentary.

JakaB

Top 10% of cheapskates?  I feel uncomplimented.

Ciao

[Anthony Gray]

  Lloyd,

 We agree that walking and rideing are two different games. I totally desire to walk and I hate fairways lined with houses, but it is my neighborhhod and it is the best I have.

  Anthony

[Anthony Gray]

  Only one person has acknowledged the real reason people use carts.
That man is MIKE YOUNG. And that is to drink. It is impossible to carry a six pack and a golf bag at the same time. After several drams walking becomes more difficult. How many times do you see a liquored up golfer in Scotland as opposed to one here in the US. Is it truly a round of golf if by the 18th hole you're not trying to sink putts into your playing partners mouth.

     Anthony

 

[Lloyd_Cole]

Anthony

The solution is to drink hard liquor. Get a hip flask.
Well, I suppose that might now work for US Summers, but for New England right now it hits the mark. For the proper Socttish experience mix blended soctch and Stones Ginger Wine 50/50 to make  a whisky mack. Don't use single malt, it is a waste.

  Only one person has acknowledged the real reason people use carts.
That man is MIKE YOUNG. And that is to drink. It is impossible to carry a six pack and a golf bag at the same time. After several drams walking becomes more difficult. How many times do you see a liquored up golfer in Scotland as opposed to one here in the US. Is it truly a round of golf if by the 18th hole you're not trying to sink putts into your playing partners mouth.

     Anthony

 

[Melvyn Morrow]

Lloyd

I hope your game is better than your taste in booze, ‘ Whisky Mack’ indeed and 50/50, boy, do you like your drink diluted. If we ever meet I’m not sure whether to shake your hand or kiss you. Whisky Mack  – if you have just ordered that at a Scottish bar make sure that when you visit the restroom you go by yourself, you sweet boy you. Is it the new carters drink?

The secret of a Single Malt is just a dash of water (teaspoon full – no more). 

Melvyn

[Eric Smith]

  Only one person has acknowledged the real reason people use carts.
That man is MIKE YOUNG. And that is to drink. It is impossible to carry a six pack and a golf bag at the same time.

Joe Six-Pack's problem solved

[archie_struthers]

 


I'm over 50 now...love to walk ...but tend to ride when I play weekdays after work...that way we can get as many holes in as time permits ...and can jump around a little bit if we run into some slow play...just skip a few holes and move

All winter and  if I play weekends I'll walk , as will about half our "hardy" players"  who don't mind the cold and wind ..but walkers are a small minority out of the full membership ..

the Segways definitely caught my eye..I know they are a littel pricey
 but  anyone have any info on cost maintenance and durability...and if they can make it up hills etc

from an architectural perspective they would eliminate the need for lots of unsightly cart paths

[Anthony Gray]

  Only one person has acknowledged the real reason people use carts.
That man is MIKE YOUNG. And that is to drink. It is impossible to carry a six pack and a golf bag at the same time. After several drams walking becomes more difficult. How many times do you see a liquored up golfer in Scotland as opposed to one here in the US. Is it truly a round of golf if by the 18th hole you're not trying to sink putts into your playing partners mouth.

     Anthony

Joe Six-Pack's problem solved

   Eric,

 I swear I play with a guy in the weekend low ball that has one of these.
 After every bad shot (he is about a 25 handicapper) he makes a negative comment about his ball that is a derogatory name fo a weoman. YOU WHORE YOU BITCH YOU SLUT and others. Not the kind of guy you want to date your sister.

 Did you see the post after you first picture on this thread?

  Anthony

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()