[hhuffines]

John,

I was having the same thought, not many tough ones.  I will add that Pinehurst #4's last green is really difficult for me to hit and hold.  The finisher at #8 was long and uphill as I remember.

What would you say is the toughest, private or public?  Raleigh CC and Treyburn come to mind.

[Joe Bausch]

  For Pa. I see either Paxon Hollow or Glen Mills as contenders.

M2:  good calls.  I considered GM, but have no idea why I missed Paxon.  Big numbers are easy on both.

[Tom Huckaby]

To that end, JSP's long par three finisher is a damn good suggestion also!  JSP - what course is that?

TH

My current home away from home (read: the course I take care of and sometimes loose sleep over ) Empire Ranch GC in Folsom, CA. Opened in 2002, designed by Brad Bell (see also: Turkey Creek, Teal Bend, Apple Mountain, Coyote Moon, etc.), local archie done good.

Let me know if you're ever in the vicinity and want a tour......or a playing partner. Seems like I'm always here......

EDIT: It do well to note however, that this hole may be the most entertaining of the round, as many of the locals use the snaking S-curve asphalt cartpath to the bottom of the hill as diversion from a wait on the tee. Almost every other group has a bet or some small competition to see who's ball can stay within the confines of the path's curbing without bouncing out.......farthest one down the hill wins! Loser buys beers at the grill. 

JSP - great stuff, and that sounds darn fun to me.

 

[John Moore II]

John,

I was having the same thought, not many tough ones.  I will add that Pinehurst #4's last green is really difficult for me to hit and hold.  The finisher at #8 was long and uphill as I remember.

What would you say is the toughest, private or public?  Raleigh CC and Treyburn come to mind.

CCNC Dogwood is about the hardest I can think of off hand. Tee shot into a semi-pinched landing area and a sharply uphill shot to the green. But it is a par 5. I still think its a fairly tough finisher. I haven't played RCC or Treyburn. I have seen a pic of the 18th at Treyburn and it looks to be a back breaker. The 18th at Eagle Point comes to mind as a tough one, but its a mid-length par 5 with a little bit of water, its not terribly hard.

I mean, the 18th at Bryan Park (Champions) is somewhat hard, 470 par 4, but it has a 50 odd yard wide fairway and a huge green. For someone able to hit the ball semi-straight its not a hard hole, especially since it plays downhill.

Wakefield has a pretty good finisher, risk/reward par 5, but its not exceptionally hard.

But I really can't think of a club in NC, public or private, that has an 18th hole that really makes you think about it for the whole round, like the 18th at Sawgrass. Or a hole that is just plain hard like the 18th at PGA National.

I am just not sure, among the courses that I have played in NC, that any of them have a finisher that really stands out as being very much harder than any of the rest.

[Scott_Burroughs]

For NC private clubs, Quail Hollow's 18th seems to give the best players in the world fits.  Also, Roaring Gap's 234-yard uphill par 3 finisher is a bear (about 10 yards longer than Hope Valley's very similar closer).

For NC publics, there aren't any real ballbusters that I can think of either, though I'd add Duke's 18th as not easy.  457 yards, all uphill, into a green with a narrow-ish opening.

If you go by 'Course Rating' difficulty, Tobacco Road's is 'easy' for the scratch golfer, but it's 'Slope' difficulty is quite high, given the big carry needed on the tee shot.  I know mid-teens handicappers who can't reach the fairway from the most forward "men's" tees.

[Russell Lo]

Ko'olau on Oahu

[Andy Troeger]

The 18th on the valley nine at BWR is the original closer. The Rivers current finisher was the original ninth. Sans that horrible addition of the water left side. It use to be rough grass and was a recoverable feature. This example should teach some of the difference between quality and difficulty.

Phil and Adam,

When was the last time you played Blackwolf? When I played in the 2005 the left side was a combination of sand/grass and was certainly recoverable. If it were water I'd agree with you on its difficulty, but its much more strategic and less penal as a bunker. Has it changed since 2005? I thought they made it water for the US Women's Open and then it went back to sand when they realized it was likely too hard.

[TEPaul]

"In FLorida, #18 at Doral's Blue Monster?"

Deucie Bies:

I very violently disagree with that. It has just got to be Fernandina Beach Municpal's 18th.

By the way, your name is Deucie Bies, is it? Very, very cool name---it sounds distinctly GOLFISH!

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Regarding PA, since the state is really 3 separate areas-Philadelphia, Pittsburgh and the rest, for the Philadelphia area,I'll nominate Lederach's new 18th hole, the former 9th. A middle bunker divides the fairway. To the left, the fairway slopes dramatically to the lake making it virtually impossible for a drive to stay dry. To the right, there is little fairway and mostly rough. The green is impossible to hold and putt even though it has been expanded.

[Wade Whitehead]

Regarding PA, since the state is really 3 separate areas-Philadelphia, Pittsburgh and the rest, for the Philadelphia area,I'll nominate Lederach's new 18th hole, the former 9th. A middle bunker divides the fairway. To the left, the fairway slopes dramatically to the lake making it virtually impossible for a drive to stay dry. To the right, there is little fairway and mostly rough. The green is impossible to hold and putt even though it has been expanded.

Thinking PA:

How about the 18th at Phiadelphia Cricket?  I recall both the drive and approach being challenging shots.  And there's plenty of trouble to be had.

Add the folks having an afternoon sandwich just a few feet beyond the putting surface, and one's got his hands full.

WW

[Steve_ Shaffer]

The last time I looked Cricket is PRIVATE. This thread is about PUBLIC courses.

No doubt 18 at Cricket is a tough hole as is 18 at Merion East and 18 at Commonwealth.

[Wade Whitehead]

The last time I looked Cricket is PRIVATE. This thread is about PUBLIC courses.

No doubt 18 at Cricket is a tough hole as is 18 at Merion East and 18 at Commonwealth.

Apologies.  Brain let me down.

WW

[Patrick Kiser]

Scott,

That one crossed my mind as well.  Especially since I almost always drive that hole well and somehow make a mess with the approach.  That  euc needs a clipping.  It has simply overgrown now and is too much into play in my book.

But I'm going to disagree in light of the Wente suggestion from Matt.  That's a mean looking finish.


Gib,

Now I have to go to Bodega just to see the 18th there.  But I'm gonna when it's up like you mention.  Probably good practice for what's across the pond.


Reef,

Harding's a good one, but more from the approach in my opinion.


TH,

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the 18th at Pasa.  That is a tough little par 3 from the back.  Semi private ... but that makes it sort of public too.  Trouble short (just ask Kaylen), trouble back, and anywhere left or right is death.  Get on but short or long and you're in trouble.

While I now live in Virginia, and I can't forget the 18th at La Purisima GC in Lompoc, CA (Note: Ryan Simper dislikes this course). It is a tough finishing hole for just 387 yards from the blue tees.

It plays into the wind. The best angle is from the left hand side of the fairway but there are two bunkers on that side. So you hit your drive to the middle of the fairway. You are now viewing the green from 170 yards or so. But there is a large euclyptus tree about 60 yards short of the green that you have to have to hit around or over.  There is a dry creek about 40 yards in front of the green. You can find your ball but it is not an easy chip from the sandy bottom. The green is wild.

[Jim_Kennedy]

I very violently disagree with that. It has just got to be Fernandina Beach Municpal's 18th.-TEPaul

Would that be #9 north, south or west?   

JKMoore,
Where would the 770 yard par 6 at Farm????something or other rate?

[John Moore II]

I very violently disagree with that. It has just got to be Fernandina Beach Municpal's 18th.-TEPaul

Would that be #9 north, south or west?   

JKMoore,
Where would the 770 yard par 6 at Farm????something or other rate?

Jim-I am not familiar with that hole. Though it sounds like one I would like to play. What course is it exactly?

[Jim_Kennedy]

JKM,

Here's their website:

http://www.farmsteadgolflinks.com/farmstead/

[Matt_Ward]

In NJ --

I'd put forward a few -- the closer at Twisted Dune doesn't suffer many fools.

Ditto the closer at Ballyowen -- much shorter than TD's but no less forgiving.

As much as it pains me to say -- the closer at ShoreGate is also quite demanding -- 462 yards and a green that is a minimm of 4-5 clubs deep.

Since I'm favoring the Shore region -- the closing hole at Cape May National also is a very touch hombre. The tee shot comes out of chute and the approach must be precise with H20 pinching in from the left and the green protected on the right by a sizeable and nasty mound.

In Pennsy --

Stone Hedge outside Scranton has a tough closer -- 437 yards and plays every inch of it.

Mystic Rock's 18th at 468 yards is also a contender from Nemacolin Woodlands.

Speaking of long par-4's that play tough -- the 18th at Downing in Erie is 480 yards and gives up pars in a miserly fashion.

Another worth possibly including -- the 18th at Birdsfoot - 460 yards and a tough driving hole to boot. Ditto the closing uphill par-4 at Quicksilver in Midway.

In New York -

The closer at Montauk Downs has to rate a mention.

If I had to make a clear front runner -- the finale at Saratoga National -- 470 yards and you need to two Herculean shots to get there and two putts to claim your prize of a good cold beer on the porch of the nearby clubhouse.

[Carl Nichols]

In Maryland, of the courses I've played,* I'd nominate the 18th at P.B. Dye:  442 yards uphill with an environmental hazard in front of the green, water left, and a very undulating green.  Even though the fairway is pretty wide, I think it's also an awkward tee shot.

*I haven't played Bulle Rock; the 18th there looks really hard.

[John Moore II]

JKM,

Here's their website:

http://www.farmsteadgolflinks.com/farmstead/

Yeah, I have never played there, so I can't really comment on how hard it is. But if its just a straight or mild dogleg then I can't see it being terribly hard. I mean, for a somewhat average golfer who can hit a 230 drive, then its D-3-3-5 or something like that. So in that case it would be fairly hard (though I would wonder why someone who only hits a 230 drive would be playing from the far back tees). But I am trying to think for me (assuming its a somewhat straight hole with no cross hazards) I could play with like D-3w-6i or something like that and be on the green in 3 shots. So, I don't know.

[Carl Nichols]

But I am trying to think for me (assuming its a somewhat straight hole with no cross hazards) I could play with like D-3w-6i or something like that and be on the green in 3 shots. So, I don't know.

How far do you hit your 6i?   

[John Moore II]

But I am trying to think for me (assuming its a somewhat straight hole with no cross hazards) I could play with like D-3w-6i or something like that and be on the green in 3 shots. So, I don't know.

How far do you hit your 6i?   

Well, it depends on the overall conditions of the course. If its firm, I can get 310 from the driver, maybe 275 from the 3w. So, thats 585 yards. That would leave roughly 185-200 yards to the green. So, that would either a 6 iron, which I hit 190ish, or a 5, which I hit 200ish. Now, if the course is soft and the wind in my face, I might hit D-3-3-3 and still be short 

[Jay Kirkpatrick]

For NC, I'd say Tanglewood's 18th is a pretty good test.  Majorly uphill dogleg right to a well-guarded green.

[John Moore II]

For NC, I'd say Tanglewood's 18th is a pretty good test.  Majorly uphill dogleg right to a well-guarded green.

Yeah, its a toughy, but I just can't say its the hardest. Now, 17, is a real tough one, and that one used to play as #18 for the Vantage Championship on the Senior Tour. That would be a hard finisher.


So, on another thread, I was reminded of another course in NC that I have played that I seem to remember having a real hard finisher. The Emerald Golf Club in New Bern. 18th there is about 440 (IIRC) with the tee shot big time over the water from the very back tees. Not an easy closer.

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