[Bob_Huntley]

Can anyone tell me when the Weed-Eater was invented?

The photograph of the 15th at CPC shows some pretty ratty conditions just off the tee.

Bob

[Chip Gaskins]

Pine Valley #14

[Chip Gaskins]

Pine Valley #2

[Chip Gaskins]

Pine Valley #6

[JSlonis]

Chip,

Good comparison.  Quite surprising...That older version of the 14th green appears to be significantly larger than the current. 

Is there any way you can post the smaller version of those photos for this thread so it fits the page?

[Chip Gaskins]

Augusta #12 (I think)
 

[Chip Gaskins]

Cypress #15

[Chip Gaskins]

delete

[Chuck Brown]

One thing to note about ANGC #12 back in that era was that they had not yet fully controlled the creek (Yes, Steve Melnyk, I'll call it "The Tributary of Rae's Creek") and that no doubt led to the untidiness of the stream-bank and surrounding grass.  There are now more elaborate measures, both upstream and downstream from 12 to make sure the creek doesn't overflow its banks.  What we are seeing is a bigger, and less controlled, stream than what exists now.

[BCrosby]

Yes, there are more controls on the stream now, but the big change is that the 12th green surface is now 3 or 4 feet higher than in the photo. There were a series of floods over the years, the last of which was several years ago when the green was completely rebuilt and raised a bit more. The 11th green was rebuilt at the same time for the same reasons. It's at the low point on the course.

The '52 photo also recalls that the 12th green is now less wide and less shallow than the original. It looks like the putting surface is much, much flatter now. Also the back of the green has been reworked considerably. The second bunker on the left (you can only see a bit of it) was probably added by RTJ in the late 40's. I don't know who is responsible for the current combo back bunkers.

Bob

[TEPaul]

"Is the PV picture #6?"


Chip Gaskins:

Yes, that picture in post #3's hyperlink is PV's #6.

Let me tell you something about that picture. Note all that vegetation in that basic right side bunker or sand area on that hole that stretches about 175 yards along the right of that hole as the land drops quite steeply from right to left.

If you could compare that photo to one from the very early years of the course you would see that in the beginning that entire area was nothing but sand---eg no vegetation!

That area, like a few others around the course was prone to slides and collapses that were unmanageable and so in the late 1920s the club got into a program that was referred to as "holding the course together." All along that right side of #6 and between #10 and #18 and a few other areas of the course they actually "terraced" those areas and dedicatedly vegetated them with all kinds of stuff for the purpose of stabilizing those areas.

If you're there take note of the old terracing, not to mention the vegetation. If you can find a really old photo of those areas originally you'll be shocked at the difference.

It was, however, absolutely necessary to stablilze those areas.

[Sean Leary]

When I first looked at that picture of 6 at Pine Valley, my initial thought was that it was 4 before tree growth since the pic seems uphill...

[Karl Bernetich]

here's another cool early PV photo.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/72/Pine_Valley_1915.png

from this same era (i.e. prior to the trees growing), there is an old photo of 14 with the lake on 15 visible on the left & behind and with the pond in front, making 14 an almost island green.  First island green

I have a copy of that photo somewhere ... but for the life of me I can't find it.
Anybody have that one ?  It would be a neat series of photos to see in sequence.
#14 -- 1925, 1952, present.

Also on the inside cover of the PV course history book is an earlier picture of #2.
It's interesting to see the changes over time of #2 -- 1920's (as the original skyline green), 1952 and as it is today.

[Eric Johnson]

RTJ Series



http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=golf+source:life&imgurl=dac2b54354fad75c

Tim,

Where is this?  Our (Tom J. and I) best guess is: a mirror image of Spyglass 3 green with 4 fairway in the background.

Thanks

[Adam Clayman]

  Our (Tom J. and I) best guess is: a mirror image of Spyglass 3 green with 4 fairway in the background.

Actually, That's the fifth green with the fourth green in the backround.

[Sean Leary]

  Our (Tom J. and I) best guess is: a mirror image of Spyglass 3 green with 4 fairway in the background.

Actually, That's the fifth green with the fourth green in the backround.

 4 green looks bigger than it does now...

[Michael Dugger]

This should be the new home page image, how cute!!!

[Adam Clayman]

Sean, It is hard to tell but I suspect the farthest right side of green space that's visible is where the green slopes hard downward to the back half. That would make that other green area to the left part green and part approach. The amazing part is how invasive the ice plant has been since those many years, and, also how some other changes to the dunescape have occurred. I.e. the road that runs between the holes created a ridge that would likely make this photo impossible today.

Looking closer, I wouldn't discount Eric's guess.  The shape of the either green would've been altered. The reason I was certain of it being the fifth, was the right side shelf. They must've added the back right bunker, cutting into the shelf and creating a slight back left bulb-like small shape. . How does one do a reverse image?

[Eric Johnson]

Sean, It is hard to tell but I suspect the farthest right side of green space that's visible is where the green slopes hard downward to the back half. That would make that other green area to the left part green and part approach. The amazing part is how invasive the ice plant has been since those many years, and, also how some other changes to the dunescape have occurred. I.e. the road that runs between the holes created a ridge that would likely make this photo impossible today.

Looking closer, I wouldn't discount Eric's guess.  The shape of the either green would've been altered. The reason I was certain of it being the fifth, was the right side shelf. They must've added the back right bunker, cutting into the shelf and creating a slight back left bulb-like small shape. . How does one do a reverse image?

I initially thought it was the fifth (RTJ would be on 6 tee) but, just not seeing the "dune" west and northwest of the green that now has a house perched above the green.  Also, the sand leading up to the front (where the bunkers now sit) was lower than what it seems in the picture. 

Also, look where the pull-cart and golf bags sit.  If it was 5, they would walking back toward 5 tee prior to the sixth hole.   Maybe this supports the theory of the mirror imaged picture??

The above and lack of landmarks do not allow me to support the thought of this being Spyglass 5.  I could be wrong though. 

[Sean Leary]

Sean, It is hard to tell but I suspect the farthest right side of green space that's visible is where the green slopes hard downward to the back half. That would make that other green area to the left part green and part approach. The amazing part is how invasive the ice plant has been since those many years, and, also how some other changes to the dunescape have occurred. I.e. the road that runs between the holes created a ridge that would likely make this photo impossible today.

Looking closer, I wouldn't discount Eric's guess.  The shape of the either green would've been altered. The reason I was certain of it being the fifth, was the right side shelf. They must've added the back right bunker, cutting into the shelf and creating a slight back left bulb-like small shape. . How does one do a reverse image?

I initially thought it was the fifth (RTJ would be on 6 tee) but, just not seeing the "dune" west and northwest of the green that now has a house perched above the green.  Also, the sand leading up to the front (where the bunkers now sit) was lower than what it seems in the picture. 

Also, look where the pull-cart and golf bags sit.  If it was 5, they would walking back toward 5 tee prior to the sixth hole.   Maybe this supports the theory of the mirror imaged picture??

The above and lack of landmarks do not allow me to support the thought of this being Spyglass 5.  I could be wrong though. 

Eric,

Click on the link again, and go to the right and scroll through the related images. There are a couple of number 3...

Isn't the 4th green farther left though? Maybe not. Weird.

[Dave_Miller]

John,

Very cool pic although it looks more like 12 with that tee in the background and bunker in the front.

Figures the sandman would recognize a bunker
Best
Dave

[Eric Johnson]

Sean, It is hard to tell but I suspect the farthest right side of green space that's visible is where the green slopes hard downward to the back half. That would make that other green area to the left part green and part approach. The amazing part is how invasive the ice plant has been since those many years, and, also how some other changes to the dunescape have occurred. I.e. the road that runs between the holes created a ridge that would likely make this photo impossible today.

Looking closer, I wouldn't discount Eric's guess.  The shape of the either green would've been altered. The reason I was certain of it being the fifth, was the right side shelf. They must've added the back right bunker, cutting into the shelf and creating a slight back left bulb-like small shape. . How does one do a reverse image?

I initially thought it was the fifth (RTJ would be on 6 tee) but, just not seeing the "dune" west and northwest of the green that now has a house perched above the green.  Also, the sand leading up to the front (where the bunkers now sit) was lower than what it seems in the picture. 

Also, look where the pull-cart and golf bags sit.  If it was 5, they would walking back toward 5 tee prior to the sixth hole.   Maybe this supports the theory of the mirror imaged picture??

The above and lack of landmarks do not allow me to support the thought of this being Spyglass 5.  I could be wrong though. 

Eric,

Click on the link again, and go to the right and scroll through the related images. There are a couple of number 3...

Isn't the 4th green farther left though? Maybe not. Weird.

OK guys.  Look at the mirror image (usually use Image->rotate->mirror) via any photo editor program and see what you think.

Another clue: look at the buttons on the sweater before and after the mirror tricky thingy.  Men have buttons attached to the right side of the garment.

[Adam Clayman]

This looks more like the third green. I'm fairly certain they are not the same green.

What you say Eric?

[Charles Scalzott]

When I first looked at that picture of 6 at Pine Valley, my initial thought was that it was 4 before tree growth since the pic seems uphill...

I also thought it was #4 due to the elevation from tee to fairway.  Actually looks like an old photograph of #4 that they have in the clubhouse at PV...of course it does look like #6 as well...hmm...on second look it does look more like #6...perhaps from the bottom/front of the tee box instead of at tee level.

[Eric Johnson]

Adam,

We posted about the same time.  Look at this though:

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