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Mike Hendren

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The Best Par 4 in Nebraska is...
« on: October 22, 2008, 07:50:29 PM »
The 4th at Omaha Country Club.  419 yards from the tips through the floor of a small valley.  About 150 yards from the tee the fairway quickly drops 5 to 6 feet, obscuring the sunken landing area.  Keith Foster added a left-hand fairway bunker cut naturally into a slight shoulder off the left hillside that is the ideal aiming point, but approximately 270 yards from the tee.  At that point the fairway narrows with anything right blocked by a single specimen tree on another shoulder coming off the right hillside 40 yards ahead.  The green at the head of the small valley is elevated and protected by two extremely deep left side bunkers cut hard against the putting surface.  The green is generally rectangular and raised in the middle to offset the cant from the right hillside.  The back third of the green falls away sharply to the left.   A bailout to the right is severely punished by an impossible up and down from above the green.   The hole probably played 440 to the extreme back pin. No. 1 handicap hole.

All in all, one of my favorite inland two shotters anywhere.  I so wished I had taken my camera.

Perhaps a certain Long Island dentist and Creighton graduate will weigh in.

Mike
« Last Edit: October 23, 2008, 10:04:22 AM by Michael_Hendren »
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Art Roselle

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Re: The Best Par 4 in Nebraska is...
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2008, 08:04:25 PM »
7th at Sandhills

Mike Hendren

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Re: The Best Par 4 in Nebraska is...
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2008, 08:08:54 PM »
Art, that's just a tough par three!
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Jeff_Mingay

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Re: The Best Par 4 in Nebraska is...
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2008, 08:16:56 PM »
Gotta be one of the par-4s at Rod Whitman's nine-hole addition at Firethorn  ;)
jeffmingay.com

Adam Clayman

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Re: The Best Par 4 in Nebraska is...
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2008, 08:26:58 PM »
An example of some of the intimacy found.



Green contours



Typical of the par 3's



Sloping terrain





My favorite, too. (not Ne. but at OCC)





Random





Best one shotter

« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 08:43:54 PM by Adam Clayman »
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Mike Hendren

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Re: The Best Par 4 in Nebraska is...
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2008, 09:33:47 AM »
Adam,

Thanks for this great photo of the 4th:



and this one from about 150 out:



The course bunkering is hardly stylistic but highly effective in that it is relatively deep and generally cut hard against the putting surface.  The almost unavoidable sidehill fairway lies throughout the course foster inaccurate approaches which frequently  find the bunkers - I was in 5 greenside bunkers. 

Overall I think Foster's work there was rock solid.

Mike
« Last Edit: October 23, 2008, 09:35:19 AM by Michael_Hendren »
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Chip Gaskins

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Re: The Best Par 4 in Nebraska is...
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2008, 10:37:07 AM »
Sand Hills #10

but Prairie Club - Marsh #16 (if I remember the routing correctly) will probably take its spot.  a long par 4 through a shoot of Ponderosa Pines ending out on a point overlooking the Snake River gorge.  amazing hole.

archie_struthers

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Re: The Best Par 4 in Nebraska is...
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2008, 10:43:10 AM »
 ;) ;D ;)

ditto

Only played one course in Nebraska ...but #10 a t Sand Hills is one of my favorites 

Tom Huckaby

Re: The Best Par 4 in Nebraska is...
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2008, 10:48:11 AM »
Not to rain on Mike's parade praising #4 at Omaha CC - that does look darn cool to me... but I have to ask Chip and Archie:  do you really believe 10 is the best par 4 at Sand Hills?

I like 10 - how can one not.  But if I had to rank the par 4s, I'd for sure put each of 8, 7 and 11 ahead of 10... and maybe even 6 also...

To me this is another testament to the greatness of the course though - there are so many great holes that honest disagreements like this occur when trying to sort out the best!

My recent trip there I really came to respect and love 11.  My gosh is that a great, great golf hole.

TH

Jason Hines

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Re: The Best Par 4 in Nebraska is...
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2008, 12:44:27 PM »
#15, 5 and 8 at WH deserve some consideration as well.

J.

Gene Greco

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Re: The Best Par 4 in Nebraska is...
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2008, 04:02:08 AM »
Mike:


      I've had numerous cocktails at OCC but never played it during my time there. But the 4th hole there would appear to be a contender for the title.

However, I think the best par 4 in Nebraska must be at Sand Hills Golf Club, which as you already know, I believe to be the greatest course in the world.

Towards the end of each trip I always ask the group of 8 what their favorite hole is, what the best hole is, best par three, four and five are, and over the years I  have heard all 18 holes mentioned.

I believe THIS IS AMAZING and would wager my house there is not another course on earth in which this is the case.

After twelve years of evaluating all the amazing golf holes there in all wind conditions, and specifically the par 4s, my own personal pick for the best par 4 at Sand Hills and therefore in Nebraska is mighty #15.

It has yielded the second fewest number of birdies of any hole there (#18 is the rarest bird).

It is unforgiving around the green and lets you know quickly you don't have the hands of a surgeon, incorporates classic risk/reward strategy off tee as the more one challenges the right side bunkers the better one's view is on the approach, is memorably brutal and violates your sanity when played into an easterly wind, has a green which appears negotiable but never is, incorporates a cool element of quirk when the pin is set on the left side as it is all but blind for the approach, is visually stunning, abuses even the most gifted hands once again when played downwind, forces you to hit any number or type of approach and tee shots to TRY to gain some advantage in attempting to attain par but can be sweet as a lollipop when played from the square tees to a center cut middle/back pin in no wind.

Also, how much will the ball bend off the left to right canted fairway in a northerly wind?  Does one really have to aim left of and over that 3 story bunker on the left to try to hit the green? 

And voila!

In a southerly wind, you can finally hit a fade and a draw with one swing like Tiger does.

And what is truly astounding is that because you are at SAND HILLS GOLF CLUB you can actually be forced to attempt all these shots ON THE SAME DAY!!!!

"...I don't believe it is impossible to build a modern course as good as Pine Valley.  To me, Sand Hills is just as good as Pine Valley..."    TOM DOAK  November 6th, 2010

Scott Szabo

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Re: The Best Par 4 in Nebraska is...
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2008, 09:28:42 AM »
Gene,

Interesting comment regarding the 15th at Sand Hills.  I've heard in passing from a few that they regard the 15th as the only WEAK hole at Sand Hills.  I don't share that opinion, but that's what I've heard.

Huck,

I find it interesting your love for the 11th.  In my two rounds there, with no wind mind you, I birdied it both times.  The second round from the massive pit to the left of the fairway from about 110 out. 

I really enjoyed the 4th hole at Sand Hills, with the falloff to the right of the green and the massive pit to the left.  It got me both times I played it, as I put it in the stuff to the right of the fairway bunker and made double each time.

I do love all the discussion on Sand Hills as it is my favorite course, even only after two rounds.

I'll throw out a different hole, one that many of you likely have never heard of.  #18 at Cross Creek in Cambridge, Nebraska.  It plays about 460 from the tips, 420 from the regular tees with a creek all the way down the left side of the fairway, cutting right up into the green.  There is a large stand of trees to the right of the green, which can come into play if the tee shot doesn't hug the left side of the fairway.  In fact, the second shot from the right side of the fairway would appear to call for a fade, starting the ball out over the creek to avoid the stand of trees.  Obviously, I don't consider it to be the best par-4 in Nebraska, but it is certainly a good one!



"So your man hit it into a fairway bunker, hit the wrong side of the green, and couldn't hit a hybrid off a sidehill lie to take advantage of his length? We apologize for testing him so thoroughly." - Tom Doak, 6/29/10

Gene Greco

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Best Par 4 in Nebraska is...
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2008, 12:08:39 PM »
   Scott:

       Over the years many who have visited have come to respect #15 in ways they had not previously noticed. Those playing the back nine have always known they were playing one of the greatest nines in the world but may have had their attention focused elsewhere each time they wrote bogey down on their scorecard after playing 15.

I have played over 250 rounds of golf at Sand Hills and have only come to this realization myself within the past couple of years.

I'm sure that those "few in passing" who have a different opinion have not played the course as much as I have in all conditions, wind directions and seasons.

YOU need to play again. Hopefully, the opportunity will present itself soon and, if not, for sure a couple of years from now.  ;)
       
"...I don't believe it is impossible to build a modern course as good as Pine Valley.  To me, Sand Hills is just as good as Pine Valley..."    TOM DOAK  November 6th, 2010

Scott Szabo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Best Par 4 in Nebraska is...
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2008, 02:47:41 PM »
Gene,

The day we played we were the only foursome on the course.  It was as peaceful a day as I can ever remember having on a course.  I can still remember the feeling driving away from the clubhouse as if it were yesterday.

One of the things I will always remember about Sand Hills, apart from the course, was the people.  I can't imagine being treated any better anywhere else in the world, and we were playing the course as unaccompanied guests.  The staff at Sand Hills were genuine, and you are very lucky indeed to be a member of such a great club.

From what I recall, #15 requires a tee shot to the right-center to be in a position to attack the green.  From the left side the massive bunker would come into play, unless you were to play to the right side of the green.  At 450 plus yards, uphill, it's a great test.  I parred it both times I played it, but I would imagine it could be a beast with the wind blowing.  As a caveat, the wind didn't blow much at all during my day. 

I do hope to visit Sand Hills again sometime in the future.  In my opinion, it just doesn't get any better than that!

 
"So your man hit it into a fairway bunker, hit the wrong side of the green, and couldn't hit a hybrid off a sidehill lie to take advantage of his length? We apologize for testing him so thoroughly." - Tom Doak, 6/29/10

Scott Szabo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Best Par 4 in Nebraska is...
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2008, 02:49:43 PM »
Not to rain on Mike's parade praising #4 at Omaha CC - that does look darn cool to me... but I have to ask Chip and Archie:  do you really believe 10 is the best par 4 at Sand Hills?

I like 10 - how can one not.  But if I had to rank the par 4s, I'd for sure put each of 8, 7 and 11 ahead of 10... and maybe even 6 also...

To me this is another testament to the greatness of the course though - there are so many great holes that honest disagreements like this occur when trying to sort out the best!

My recent trip there I really came to respect and love 11.  My gosh is that a great, great golf hole.

TH

Huck, with all the love you show for Sand Hills, how could you forget that #6 is a par three? ;D  I'd be interested to know what hole you meant!
"So your man hit it into a fairway bunker, hit the wrong side of the green, and couldn't hit a hybrid off a sidehill lie to take advantage of his length? We apologize for testing him so thoroughly." - Tom Doak, 6/29/10

Kyle Henderson

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Re: The Best Par 4 in Nebraska is...
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2008, 02:30:10 AM »
I've only played two courses in Nebraska (out of around 200 total courses  in the last 7 years), yet a half dozen of my favorite par 4s are found there.

Sand Hills has no weak par 4s. #4,5,7,8, and 18 are the creme de la creme.
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Tom Huckaby

Re: The Best Par 4 in Nebraska is...
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2008, 10:37:41 AM »
Scott - sorry about that - I meant 4!  I do really like that hole also.  Call it a bad typing moment last week.

Re Sand Hills 11, man I played it in some strong wind last time there, also very firm and fast conditions, and that could well have been the toughest hole on the course.  Always before it was decently challenging drive, then just get something on the green, usually a shortish iron, somewhat ho hum (by Sand Hills terms anyway).  In this kind of ultra-firm and fast and wind, well... one's approach had to be pretty darn precise to have a hope of staying on top... if it was short at all, it rolled back nearly all the way down the hill.  Long was more dead.  NO putt was simple.  Add to it the very very cool skyline visual, and well... as I say I gained tremendous respect for this golf hole.

TH

Michael Wharton-Palmer

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Re: The Best Par 4 in Nebraska is...
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2008, 10:43:37 AM »
#15 and 18 at Sand Hills certainly come to mind...but I agreeit does not have any weak par fours...the hardest has to be #2 from that back tee box!

Tom Huckaby

Re: The Best Par 4 in Nebraska is...
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2008, 10:45:52 AM »
#15 and 18 at Sand Hills certainly come to mind...but I agreeit does not have any weak par fours...the hardest has to be #2 from that back tee box!

Michael - #2 from the ultra-back tee does give one of the more intimidating tee shots one will face, on a par four, that's for sure.  Then if one succeeds on that, one still has an approach - to THAT green.  I think you're right - that is the toughest hole on the course.  #11 just played very very tough as I described it in the last post also.

There are no weak par fours... nor par threes.. nor par fives...

 ;D

TH

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Best Par 4 in Nebraska is...
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2008, 10:55:24 AM »
 ;) ;D 8)


Mr Huckaby .....I particularly like the 10th due to the fall away aspects of the approach to the green  ...it's so hard to do this just right and  this one is special  ....when I played there a few years back ......we played for three days straight and I looked forward to the shot every time ...got it right once or twice ...

adios
« Last Edit: October 27, 2008, 11:36:42 AM by archie_struthers »

Mike Hendren

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Re: The Best Par 4 in Nebraska is...
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2008, 10:58:15 AM »
Gene,

The 15th green at Sand Hills is surprisingly inaccessible.  As you rightly point out many difference holes will be named as favorite/best at Sand Hills.  I would add #2 to the list.

All said, I honestly believe that the 4th at Omaha CC is the best NE par four I've played.  I encourage you to play there at the first opportunity.

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Tom Huckaby

Re: The Best Par 4 in Nebraska is...
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2008, 11:03:49 AM »
;) ;D 8)


Mr Huckaby .....I particularly like the 10th due to the fall away aspects of teh approach to the green  ...it's so hard to do this just right and  this one is special  ....when I played there a few years back ......we played for three days straight and I looked forward to the shot every time ...got it right once or twice ...

adios

First of all, I appreciate the etiquette but you deserve to be Mr. Struthers FAR more than I do Mr.  Huckaby.   ;D

And that is a great thought re 10.  That is one damn maddening - and fun - approach.  Tee shot is pretty darn fun too.  So yes, 10 is very viable as a fave.  Shoot, each hole there is.

TH

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: The Best Par 4 in Nebraska is...
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2008, 03:46:04 PM »
I hate to comment on OCC....having interviewed there three times and only having been hired once - to route out a new nine that has never been built.

I think I have told the story of interviewing there in the early 1990's against C and C. I was told before my course tour that there was one sacred tree - front right of 4 green - that had to be saved.  Of course, when I went out there, it was on the south side, blocking the sun, it was a cottonwood that left leaves and branches all over and whose roots were so shallow that you could almost see them in the green.

They all looked at me and asked "Can you save that tree?"  My reply was "Sure, just tell me where to stack the logs!"
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Mike Hendren

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Re: The Best Par 4 in Nebraska is...
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2008, 06:02:51 PM »
Jeff,

Cornish & Whitten credit the original design to Langford & Moreau who in fact did two other area clubs in the 1920's.    For some reason I'm skeptical and Adam Clayman shared that you thought Bendelow was perhaps the original architect.  That seems to make more sense as it was not uncommon for his work to be altered relatively quickly in the the life of a course.  Any thoughts?

The routing is outstanding, though apparently the par three 5th was originally a short par four with the par five 6th being a pronounced dogleg right from the original tee.

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: The Best Par 4 in Nebraska is...
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2008, 06:32:47 PM »
Mike,

Whitten says its Styles, based on an ad they produced just before construction began and the look of the greens, which aren't quite LM dramatic.  There is no way of knowing whether they lost the contract to LM at some point.  The club believes it was LM, but chose to remodel to the five greens that Maxwell did - with 4 and 5 greens actually being the very last two he did before his death in 1952.

Remodeling to a partially complete redo plan 30 years after opening is a unique concept, but the members like the Maxwell gresn the best.  There is another par 3 on the front that was originally a punch bowl green, but a local pro remodeled that out of existence in the 1970's.

Dave Bennet also did a master plan in that time frame, but there is no record anyone ever implemented any of his suggestions.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach