[TEPaul]

Phil:

I've read your posts which essentially point out that you do not think it has been proven that Tillinghast ever wrote under the pen name "Far and Sure", and I understand what you're saying but do you feel there is anything your aware of that can specifically and particularly indicate that he COULD NOT have written under that pen name?

[Phil_the_Author]

Tom,

You asked, "Do you feel there is anything your aware of that can specifically and particularly indicate that he COULD NOT have written under that pen name?" [Far and Sure]

The short answer is no. There isn't a single place where Tilly ever wrote or stated that he never wrote under the pen name "Far and Sure."

But that begs the simple question of WHY would he ever state something like that? First of all, if he had written as F&S he could never say that he hadn't. Secondly, I can't find a single place, a single clue, a single inference where someone from his day actually thought that HE was F&S. Nothing, nada, bupkiss, no way Jose.... That means that there was no reason for him to give it any consideration if he hadn't. For why deny doing something you hadn't done when no one even considered it as having happened?

Tilly DID specifically identify himself as "Hazard" and did so in the pages of The American Golfer several times. First of all there was his column in 1918 where he told of his father's passing. In that column he stated that his father, B.C. Tillinghast, had died, had been the person known as "Duffer", that he had written almost every single poem that he had put under his columns as "Hazard" and that he was responsible for much of the research for the local news he wrote about in his column as "Hazard." No mention of F&S... No mention that B.C. had helped him with the research and local news reported by F&S. Nothing.

If Tilly had written columns as F&S he would have needed informatio & research provided for him by B.C. That he didn't credit him with doing that speaks volumes, at least to me, toward proving what can't be proven without a definitive ID of F&S, that Tilly wasn't him.

Style similarities and reporting of the same facts can be explained away very easily. After all, aren't the same ones who are championing this the ones who staunchly believed that Yilly had written the "Joe Bunker" articles as well? Yet the same argument, similarity of writing style and reporting of facts, was the basis of that conclusion. Heck, I'll even admit that I accepted it at first, until I read the differences in the story behind the discovery of the land for Pine Valley. Tilly would not have written conflicting accounts under two names. Never, and especially not about Pine Valley. Heck Tom, you know that when Tilly gave misinformation about the funding for the finishing of it he did a retraction to the story the very next article! Tilly just wouldn't have written two contradictory accounts. That is why he wasn't "Joe Bunker" and why there should be a great deal more caution shown toward  proclaiming him as "Far and Sure."

[TEPaul]

Phil:

Thanks for the explanations.

The fact remains there seems to be nothing conclusive to indicate that Tillie may not have used the pen name "Far and Sure" (at least some of the time). He may not have mentioned that pen name when his father died (and mentioned it under "Hazard") since I don't believe the pen name "Far and Sure" had been used in AG at all for about five years by 1918. Whoever wrote under Far and Sure in 1911 and 1912 sure did seem intimately familiar with most all those guys Tillie played golf with at ACCC in the winters before Pine Valley began. It is also odd to me that Hazard wrote the "Eastern Pennsylvania Notes" previous to 1911, and then "Far and Sure" wrote most of them in 1911 and 1912 and then Hazard wrote them again from 1913 on.

[Phil_the_Author]

Tom,

Really, you can't be serious with this line of reasoning?

In 1911, Tilly, writing as "Hazard," wrote 6 articles only for the American Golfer with the last one being in June. His next one was in the December 1912 issue.

What could have kept Tilly busy at this time?

Could it be the opening of Shawnee on May 1st? It did.

Could it have been his convincing Worthington that he should host a major Open championship (Shawnee Open) the very next year and that Worthington insisted that Tilly organize and run it?  The answer is Yes to both.

Could it be with the successful opening of Shawnee that Tilly was now in demand architecturally? The answer is yes. In fact I was just sent a newspaper clipping from 1916 by Neil Crafter wherein Tilly is quoted as saying that he had given bids on 100 golf course construction jobs all over the East and South.

Could it be that Tilly did a good deal of traveling in 1911 & 1912? Yes, he did... see above.

There is just no conceivably legitimate reason that Tilly would STOP writing for the American Golfer as "Hazard" continue to do so as "Far and Sure" and then return as "Hazard." NONE.

Not even Oliver Stone would concoct a conspiracy theory along those lines...

With all due respect, please be reasonable on this one point...

[TEPaul]

Phil:

So, do you think the "Eastern Pennsylvania Notes" appearing under the pen name "Hazard" almost monthly from about September 1913 on for a number of years were all written by Tillinghast?



"Not even Oliver Stone would concoct a conspiracy theory along those lines..."

Conspiracy?

I'm not too clear on what you mean by "conspiracy" if Tillinghast switched to the pen name "Far and Sure" for a couple of years.

[Phil_the_Author]

Tom,

You asked, "So, do you think the "Eastern Pennsylvania Notes" appearing under the pen name "Hazard" almost monthly from about September 1913 on for a number of years were all written by Tillinghast?"

Everything written under the pen name of "Hazard" in the American Golfer, including the "Eastern Pennsylvania Notes" section from February 1913 to April 1917 and that was then changed to "Eastern Department" in May 1917 up until the last article in May 1919, were ALL written by Tilly with the exception of the poetry and research as he directly attributed these to his father.

It was because of his father's death that he would end up quitting writing for AG because with his architectural work he had no time to do the research necessary for it.

[TEPaul]

"Everything written under the pen name of "Hazard" in the American Golfer, including the "Eastern Pennsylvania Notes" section from February 1913 to April 1917 and that was then changed to "Eastern Department" in May 1917 up until the last article in May 1919, were ALL written by Tilly with the exception of the poetry and research as he directly attributed these to his father."


Phil:

That's what I thought---eg that Tillie contributed almost monthly between 1913 and 1919. If that was the case, are you saying he was much less busy with architecture in those years than he was in 1911 and 1912 which you just used as a rationale for why he could not have contrbuted under the pen name "Far and Sure" when "Hazard" was rarely contributing in those two years?

[Phil_the_Author]

No Tom,

I am not. In 1911-12 he opened his FIRST golf course designed by him. It was followed by his organizing and running of the first Shawnee Open for his friend Worthington. He was immediately inundated with requests for design bids and was running around doing that, and so something ahd to give. He came back to AG when his life had become a bit more organized, yet still during these years when he continued to write for AG he stopped writing for the local papers and magazines for the very reason that he was just too busy.

The once a month column for AG he was only able to do because of his father's help (and he helped him with gathering info for his newspaper columns as well) and finally he had to quit that as well.

My point is simply that there is just nothing that even encourages belief that he wrote for the AG under two or more different pen names and that he was barely able to keep up with doing that despite his love for writing. For example, he had always wanted to write another Cobble Valley book but was never able to find the time to do so.

It has been written that "Logistics are the assassins of ideas" and this is the case with this. As micuh as I would love toattribute even more writing to Tilly, he was just one man and, superhuman though he was  , could only do so much.

[Mike_Cirba]

The introduction of Shawnee and golf in northeastern PA (i.e. Valley CC, Wyoming Valley CC, Scranton CC) during the years of 1911-12 are pretty clear indication of who "Far and Sure" was, I believe.

Go back and read the articles of "Far and Sure".   In his first ones he has first-hand accounts and knowledge of everything happening at Huntingdon Valley, and Merion, and Crump and Ab Smith, and Howard Perrin, on a detail level, but then in the same articles talks about golf in northeastern PA.

Phil just told us the other day that Tillinghast was involved at Abington Hills just outside Scranton in the same timeframe.

Ask yourself if there are any other golfers on the planet who were involved in both Philadelphia and NE PA as well as providing first-hand accounts and photos of tournaments in Atlantic City in 1911?   

His articles include poetry and limericks as well.   

Even the January 1913 review of Merion is followed by a pictorial discussion of the "Mid-Surrey mounding" introduced at Shawnee.

Better yet...consider this;

Merion opened in September 1912.   In the January 1913 "American Cricketer" article, Tillinghast stated;

"Before winter came down on us I visited Merion to play over the new course for the first time.   I liked it then, but I permitted weeks to pass before I attempted to put my impressions on paper.    It must be remembered that the golf course is not like the book or the play, for it is not a work to be finished and then judged as it is.....Previously I have said that I liked the course when I played it and after these weeks of cogitation I still like it very much."

In both the "Far and Sure" article, as well as Tillinghast's "American Golfer" article, the same players are photographed, but if one looks at the trees, it's clear that it is autumn...probably late September based on the fact that I can't see a single leaf having fallen in any of them.   Tilly likely penned the article quite a few weeks later...likely around Thanksgiving or early December, to make the January issue.

Is it once again simply about the 7,242th strange coincidence that both the Tillinghast "American Cricketer" article reviewing Merion and the "Far and Sure" article in "American Golfer" reviewing Merion BOTH appeared in those respective magazine's January 1913 issue?!?!   

[TEPaul]

Phil:

You are making some points about Tillinghast's time----both with architecture and writing I have never heard before. Do you mind if we run through all of this on a timeline basis----both who he wrote for and for how long and what he was doing during all this time with golf course architecture? Is all this, and all the details of it in your book? I hear your book is marvelous and I'm ashamed to say I don't have it.

I'm going to order it first thng tomorrow!

[TEPaul]

Mike Cirba:

Your points are sort of wandering!

We'll get to the bottom of who wrote "Far and Sure" someday, I'm sure. Step back, take a breather and then get back into it from hopefully a fresh perspective.

The ultimate question, I guess, for most GOLFCLUBATLASER's is what difference does it make WHO wrote "Far and Sure"?

I think eventually we can show it really does matter for a bunch of reasons! It may not end up being earth-shattering information but , nonetheless it does matter!

[Mike_Cirba]

Tom,

I just lost a somewhat lengthy post, but I think some of the timeline you mentioned is beginning to come together.

The Shawnee tournament that Phil referred to is covered by "Far and Sure" in the Sept 1912 issue, including a picture from the event. (see page 2 of 4)

http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/AmericanGolfer/1912/ag85i.pdf

In the October 1912 issue, it's fairly clear he's just played the newly opened Merion when he comments that "many of the traps and pits are yet to be built" and lists the yardages of each of the holes.  (see page 4 of 5)

http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/AmericanGolfer/1912/ag86k.pdf

Several weeks later, just as Tillinghast mentioned in his American Cricketer article, a full review of Merion by "Far and Sure" appeared in the January 1913 issue, the same month as Tillinghast's review in "American Cricketer".

http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/AmericanGolfer/1913/ag93m.pdf


Wandering, huh? 

I better go to bed...it was a late night, what with the Phillies and all. 

[Phil_the_Author]

Mike,

That reviews of courses appear in competing magazines about the same golf course, at the same time and even mentioning that the reviewer played it is nothing more than standard reporting!

C'mon now. It happens all the time today and it happened back then as well. Or are you saying that tilly was the ONLY golf writer of note in the Philadelphia area to be invited to play those courses at that time? That is ludicrous as well.

I respect your right to hold onto your belief on this, but I honestly don't see how it could be even remotely possible...

Tom, you asked, "Do you mind if we run through all of this on a timeline basis----both who he wrote for and for how long and what he was doing during all this time with golf course architecture?"

One of the things that most intrigued me about Tilly as an architect in the very beginning when I began to research about him was the question 'How?' How was he able to accomplish what he did during a point in history where telephones were beyond a luxury, automobiles were somewhat common but not totally and most roads were not paved and there were no highways.

As I learned more and came across more information I became even more astounded as the amount and breadth of his writings became known. The question 'How?' came even more to the forefront as I wondered just how was he able to write many of the articles that he did and get them to the publisher of whatever journal, magazine, etc... that needed them on time.

In addition to this is his photography. That also is so greatly underappreciated in its quality, importance and, especially important in this discussion, the time he spent DEVELOPING THEM!

Photography in those days was quite different than today. Tilly took up photography in the late 1880's. He won a $25 prize for a photograph of his wife Lillian in 1895. Consider what that figure implies. It was a tremendous amount of money and so the competition must have brought out a lot of pretty good photographers. It also shows that Tilly must have been very good.

In those days the good photographer developed his own photographs and Tilly was no exception to this. He actually continued to do this throughout his life and carried all of his camera & developing equipment with him when he went on the road.

One of the surprises you might find when you read the bio is how in the early 1930's Ben Hogan came and visited Tilly at his home in New Jersey. While there Tilly gave him swing lessons which they FILMED. IN fact they developed them immediately after each filming and then studied them frame-by-frame. So he remained very involved in photography his entire life as well.

I bring this up because others wrote of Tilly that he never showed up at any tournament, local or national, without his camera, and that is why his photograph collection of golfers of that time were said to be larger than anyone else's by far. It is also the reason that the fire which destroyed his private papers, drawings, documents and photographs where they were being stored in the early 1950's robbed generations of future golfers far more than glimpses into the reality of the game in those years.

All of these things took time and the more that one learns about what he was able to accomplish the more staggered with it one must become.

So to answer your question, yes. I have been working on a Tilly chronolgy for Volume II since even bfore the bio (Volume I) was published. I have traced out many of his travels and discovered him in places and at times that no one had previously thought possible. I have received a great deal of help from friends and strabgers who have become friends. I now get emails surprises with snippets of 'Tilly sightings', newspaper clippings, etc... at least several times a week.

An example. One was sent to me the other day by Neil Crafter. It was just a short mention, two paragraphs, from the Des Moines News dated April 4, 1916.

IOWA... 1916! That is the first time I have ever seen a mention of Tilly in IOWA during the teens! Was this a report sent out over teh wires and simply printed as a filler piece? Probably, but at this point no one can say for sure. More research needs to be done, but it is highly possible that he was there because he was in Oklahoma and Texas that year.

All that having been said, building Tilly's timeframe is a huge task. Even identifying all of the places he wrote for is difficult as we find new ones quite often as well.

You also asked, "Is all this, and all the details of it in your book?" As far as the details are concerned, some are and some aren't, but there is quite a lot. Fortunately there is Volume II! 

"I hear your book is marvelous and I'm ashamed to say I don't have it." Thank you for the kind words...

"I'm going to order it first thng tomorrow!" It's about freakin' time!  Don't worry, I'm not insulted at all. Wayne has a copy if you want to borrow his, but I guess I shouldn't encourage that as the thought of you breaking open the Bank of Paul and spending even a little bit of that old Philly money tickles my fancy!

[TEPaul]

Mike Cirba:

I apologize---in your post #258 I said your points were wandering. On review, I don't think they are wandering at all. I guess all that was wandering last night was my mind when I read them!   

[Mike_Cirba]

Phil,

Thanks for the additional info...

I'm not sure how you can make the statement "I don't understand how it can be even remotely possible."  

You seem to be contradicting yourself when you tell us what a voluminous writer Tillinghast was throughout his career (when he had scads of courses underway in various locales), yet tell us he was too busy in 1911-12 (when his career was only beginning and he had ONE course underway, and possibly a second beginning in Northeastern PA at Abington Hills outside Scranton) to have possibly written the 3-5 page accounts that appeared monthly under the heading "Far and Sure" during that time.

Were there any other golf writers you know who not only had an in-depth knowledge of Philadelphia and Atlantic City golf and golfers but who also was up in the Poconos and even as far north as Scranton and Wilkes-Barre?

Who outside their immediate locales in 1911 even knew that golf was being played at places like Wyoming Valley in Wilkes-Barre, or Scranton CC in Scranton, or Valley CC at Hazelton, or Shawnee, with PHOTOS?   Incidentlally, as you know, TIllinghast worked at at least 2 of those 3 clubs just a few years later.

Who would have taken the photo of Mr. Worthington that appeared with "Far and Sure"'s account of the first tournament at Shawnee??

Do you really think there was a big press corps covering golf in the northeastern part of PA in mining country who would also be versed with the details of Philadelphia and Atlantic City golf?

That's rather preposterous, with all due respect.

[Mike_Cirba]

Phil,

I also would question your contention stating, "That reviews of courses appear in competing magazines about the same golf course, at the same time and even mentioning that the reviewer played it is nothing more than standard reporting!"


Yes, reviews could and should appear around the same time.

What is differerent and distinctive here is that the writer in both cases (as we can tell from the photos and the leaves fully on the trees) played the course probably shortly after opening in late September.    This would have fit nicely with TIllinghast finishing Worthington's tournament at Shawnee in August.

The fact is that the writer than waited several weeks..probably a full two months....before putting pen to paper.

You would think that the announcement of a brand new "Championship" course at Merion would have dicated a rush to print.   Yet, in Tillinghast's individualistic fashion, he let it soak in for several weeks...may have even gone back to play again....before giving his thoughts...

Why did he do that?   Why, Tillinghast tells us in the beginning of his American Cricketer article;

"The critic who reads a book or sees a play and then immediately sits down to review it is rather unfair.  If he permits his subject to soak in, devoting considerable thought to it and regarding it from all angles, he is then qualified to offer an honest, intelligent criticism.   Frequently he must read the book or see the play a second time before he is ready to take up his pencil."


Which Tillinghast then did, and then he sold to two different magazines under slightly revised wording and emphasis, and one with a pen name as was Travis's wont, but at the exact same time...January 1913.

[TEPaul]

Phil:

Thank you for post #262. But it did not exactly get at my earlier question to you (post #256) about the rationale you used about why Tillinghast could not have written under Far and Sure in the years 1911 and 1912. Your rationale for that was he was just too busy doing other things. Was he really busier doing other things in 1911 and 1912 than he was in the years 1913 to 1919 when he continued to write monthly for American Golfer under "Hazard" and the "Eastern Department?"

And I remind this discussion that the pen names "Hazard" and "Far and Sure" rarely, if ever, appeared in the magazine in the same month, as far as I can tell. In other words, when the copy for the "Eastern Pennsylvania Notes" section of the "Eastern Department" did not appear under the pen name "Hazard" they generally did appear (particularly in 1911 and 1912) under the pen name "Far and Sure."

This is not intended to be some excercise to put your feet to the fire here. I'm sure you can understand what our interest and agenda is here. We are not saying we've proven Tillinghast used the pen name "Far and Sure" when it appeared so often in 1911 and 1912, we are simply trying to figure out that if he didn't use that pen name (when he was not contributing as "Hazard" but yet the copy in the same section was still being provided under "Far and Sure") then who in the world could it have been around here who could get at that kind of detailed first hand information (which seems to emanate from close personal relationships with the subjects and subject matter) that Tillinghast did when using the pen name "Hazard"? And secondly who could it have been around here who even had the interest and inclination to write that kind of detailed local Philadelphia information for American Golfer magazine?

I think we can all agree on one thing----eg someone wrote it. So who in the world was it around here if not Tillinghast? The answer to this kind of question becomes all the more maddening when someone like Tom MacWood just sort of blithely claimed he knows the identity of "Far and Sure" and then for whatever his reasons are just continued to refuse to explain it or even acknowledge questions put to him numerious times about who it really was.

[Mike_Cirba]

Phil,

If Tillinghast was spending as much time as you say at Shawnee and NE PA in 1911 and 1912, it would also explain why he hadn't seen the new course at Merion from the time he reported that he had "seen the plans" in May 1911 until this moment shortly after opening.   I had always wondered why Tillinghast, a Philadelphian, wouldn't have been more on top of the construction phases of the course, but if he was in the Poconos and Scranton, this makes perfect sense.


Tiillinghast wrote in May of 1912;

"as of yet I have not looked over the new course but I am informed that the work is progressing rapidly and most satisfactorily."



"Far and Sure" wrote in his American Golfer article;

"I had heard much of the plans and reports of the progressing work but not until a month ago did I find the opportunity of seeing it".


Chalk up coincidence #8,390.  

[Phil_the_Author]

Yom,

You asked, "Were there any other golf writers you know who not only had an in-depth knowledge of Philadelphia and Atlantic City golf and golfers but who also was up in the Poconos and even as far north as Scranton and Wilkes-Barre? Who outside their immediate locales in 1911 even knew that golf was being played at places like Wyoming Valley in Wilkes-Barre, or Scranton CC in Scranton, or Valley CC at Hazelton, or Shawnee, with PHOTOS?"

The answer is YES there was! He has been staring at everyone and right under your noses the entire time. I am not saying that this person was "Far and Sure" but if anyone was to have write under two different names for the American Golfer it would be him.

Benjamin Collins Tillinghast, Tilly's father and the person who wrote peotry in the AG under the pen name of Duffer.

There is a bit of family and written information that hints at more than points to B.C. having written articles for both newspapers and magazines other than his "Duffer" poetry.

He was at MORE of the local events than Tilly and usually accompanied his son when he went to them. He had TOTAL access to Tilly's photos and knew evryone that Tilly did. In fact B.C. was the person who both introduced his son to the game but also took him to St. Andrews.

Consider these facts about B.C.:
 
1- He did local research for Tilly enabling him to write his articles.
2- He wrote for the American Golfer under "Duffer."
3- His writing style is very similar to his son's to the extent that most who have read the "Hazard" columns, unless they read the one about B.C.'s death in 1918 assumed that it was tilly who did all the research and wrote the poems.
4- He knew and was driends with all of the same leading men in golf in Philadlphia and throughout the region that Tilly did.
5- He was a pretty good golfer himself, having won the "Absecon Cup" at an event at the Atlantic City CC in 1912.
6- He introduced his son to the Worthington family as he was friends with the family early on.

If the "coincidences" that you feel prove that Tilly had to be F&S then you need to rethink it because B.C. fits more of those coincidences than Tilly himself...

Again, I'm not saying that B.C. was F&S, but as shown above he certainly answers everyone of your questions raised as ANOTHER PHILLY AREA GOLF WRITER who might have been him.

So to paraphrase one of Tom's questions, can either of you point to anything written that says or proves that B.C. Tillinghast WASN'T F&S?

[Mike_Cirba]

Phil,

I have no doubt that his dad contributed greatly to his columns, particulary as relates to local competitions and poems and such, but only one of them seemed to have spent the dedicated time upstate in NE PA in 1911 and 1912 that would have warranted them not seeing the brand new, heavily anticipated, Philadelphia "Championship" course prior to it's opening.

And we already know from the American Cricketer article that the person in question was A.W....just like "Far and Sure".

So, we know that both AW and FarandSure were too busy to see Merion during construction.

We know that both AW and FarandSure played Merion right after it opened, based on the leaves on the trees.

We know that both AW and FarandSure had photos in their articles playing with the same group.

We know that both AW and FarandSure waited several weeks before putting pencil to paper

We know that both AW and FarandSure 's respective reviews were printed in January 1913, about 3 months after playing the course for the first time.

And, we know that both AW and FarandSure's reviews were stunningly similar in content, focus, wording, and impressions.

Even Tom MacWood admitted as much...he called the articles, "remarkably similar".

[Ken Moum]

Phil,

I have no doubt that his dad contributed greatly to his columns, particulary as relates to local competitions and poems and such, but only one of them seemed to have spent the dedicated time upstate in NE PA in 1911 and 1912 that would have warranted them not seeing the brand new, heavily anticipated, Philadelphia "Championship" course prior to it's opening.

And we already know from the American Cricketer article that the person in question was A.W....just like "Far and Sure".

So, we know that both AW and FarandSure were too busy to see Merion during construction.

We know that both AW and FarandSure played Merion right after it opened, based on the leaves on the trees.

We know that both AW and FarandSure had photos in their articles playing with the same group.

We know that both AW and FarandSure waited several weeks before putting pencil to paper

We know that both AW and FarandSure 's respective reviews were printed in January 1913, about 3 months after playing the course for the first time.

And, we know that both AW and FarandSure's reviews were stunningly similar in content, focus, wording, and impressions.

Even Tom MacWood admitted as much...he called the articles, "remarkably similar".

I was reading all this last night, and had the same thought as Phil... the logical person to take over for AW in eastern Pa. during 1911 and 1912 was his dad--under the "new" pen name of Far and Sure.

And if it was his dad, who everyone seems to agree contributed to AW's other articles, it would explain the similarities between the known Tillinghast writing and and that of Far and Sure.  If, in fact, AW was unusually busy during that time it makes perfect sense that his writing would include more of his dad's words and style.

The assistance of his dad could even explain in some regard how prolific AW was while on the road.

There's even an argument to be made that some of the recollections about overseas voyages could be BC's recollections, not AW's

If that's the case, it doesn't really chance how all this reflects on the information re. Merion.

Ken

[Mike_Cirba]

Ken,

That's a good point about the voyage, etc., but as much as we are trying to nail down who "Far and Sure" really was, it really has little impact on the question of Merion.

That's because we already know that AW Tillinghast under his own byline wrote that he had "seen the plans" in April 1911 prior to construction, then wrote that Hugh Wilson was responsible in the American Cricketer article after playing their once it opened, and then again strongly reiterated that assertion when he wrote that "Hugh Wilson planned and developed Merion" in 1934 when the first US Open was played there.

"Far and Sure" merely concurred with him.

This is what I think might have happened if "Far and Sure" was his dad...

I think Tilly may have just sent his father the "Full" American Cricketer review after he wrote it up and his dad took it and changed it slightly and maybe added his own flair for pubication in American Golfer.   

However, where he talks about playing the course with Willoughby and Perrin...I believe that was AW....and I believe that his full review was possibly edited down in the American Cricketer, where more of it is on display in American Golfer.

[TEPaul]

"So to paraphrase one of Tom's questions, can either of you point to anything written that says or proves that B.C. Tillinghast WASN'T F&S?"


Phil:

Yes, I believe I can and perhaps using a number of explains from the text of those "Far and Sure" araticles. Here's a good example----eg I would not call it necessarily "proof" but I believe one of the best indications that B.C. was not "Far and Sure" (or at least not all the time) and that Tillie was (at least some of the time) can be found in the February 1912 "Far and Sure" column in American Golfer.

In my opinion, that particular column best exemplifies the necessity of first hand information to be able to write a column like that (by first hand I mean the necessity of actually being at an event that is being reported on to report on it in the kind of detail contained in that particular column) and I believe that column also shows the cleverness involved in a pen name writer actually referring to himself in the third person. That is one of the primary tricks of a pseudonym writer and in Tillie's case it obviously worked well with readers who did not know him personally, and it actually seems to continue to work with some of us today.  (Some probably actually think if the writer mentioned someone (in the third person) it was not likely the writer!

Plus, that column actually listed the entire guest list of that event. A. W. Tillinghast was there. B.C. Tillinghast was not.

[Mike_Cirba]

Tom Paul,

Yes, you're absolutely correct about the guest list.   There is no question in my mind that this is Tilly's account of the GAP annual dinner, complete with four of his ditties, copied verbatim. 

I'm also dead certain that the January 1913 review of Merion is Tillinghast's review, although I might look a bit further into the issue of BC's travels to see what ships he sailed on, at least to run down KMoums Theory that perhaps BC just put his own spin and experiences in Tilly's review..

I'm not optimistic as to what I might find, however, given the general woeful incompleteness of those manifest records.    Still, I'll check it out.

[Phil_the_Author]

Tom,

So I'll agree that F&S wasn't B.C. Tillinghast... Then again i did say that "Again, I'm not saying that B.C. was F&S..." My point is that there are others who can fit the bill so to speak...

Mike, I would forget the ship search. B.C. accompanied Tilly on his 1895, 1898 & 1901 trips to St. Andrews. Tilly never travelled overseas again (he wrote this in an article a number of years later) and most likely B.C. never did either. I say that because I did a search on ancestry.com a while back to try and locate any potential voyages for B.C. & the rest. There was nothing listed... Of course today there may be more info on the site...

Once again teh answer really is staring everyone in the face. Simply go to the Philadelphia Free Library and look in the old issue of the major papers from 1895 (though this really would be too early for Tilly) to 1915 and see what person was a "Sporting Editor" for TWO of the papers... That we know is the answer to it.

Once again that's "Sporting Editor" and NOT GOLF Editor... They are two very different things...

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()