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Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Aerial of the Day #122 - 18 Jun 2002
« on: June 18, 2002, 07:17:27 AM »
Haven't been to this state in a little while.

Looks like it could be a bit hilly.

Many would say it would be prudent to play this course if in the area.

« Last Edit: May 12, 2005, 01:10:55 PM by Scott_Burroughs »

Mike_Cirba

Re: Aerial of the Day #122 - 18 Jun 2002
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2002, 07:22:37 AM »
Looks like they are studying how to "restore" the bunkering, with a couple of test cases out there grading out at perhaps a D-.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Brad Klein

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Re: Aerial of the Day #122 - 18 Jun 2002
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2002, 07:29:03 AM »
This is no Bush-league Old Macdonald farm layout, but lately its bunkers have been overruled by a witch.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aerial of the Day #122 - 18 Jun 2002
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2002, 07:35:21 AM »
To the tables down at Moreys
To the place where Louis dwells...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Three_Putt

Re: Aerial of the Day #122 - 18 Jun 2002
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2002, 07:37:29 AM »
gotta be pretty smart to putt on that ninth green.... ;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aerial of the Day #122 - 18 Jun 2002
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2002, 08:09:16 AM »
Some might be turned off by the numerous blind shots on
this course, but I'm not one of them.

There's also some huge greens on this course.

Might Mr. Cotton Gin be an honorary member here?  Or
maybe they honored him in a different way here?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

ChipOat

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aerial of the Day #122 - 18 Jun 2002
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2002, 08:47:04 AM »
Boola Boola.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aerial of the Day #122 - 18 Jun 2002
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2002, 10:03:06 AM »
Either people are bored with it or don't recognize anything, but usually people start naming holes when these type courses are shown.

A certain "progeny" mollydooker on this site is quite familiar with this place.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aerial of the Day #122 - 18 Jun 2002
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2002, 10:14:55 AM »
for some reason, and this may be an indicator of the shape this course is in, the trademark holes are not as recognizable as some of the other courses by this arch.

I can't give one of the trademark holes away, or it will give the whole thing away.

On the lower half you have a redan (lower left), a
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Allan Long

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aerial of the Day #122 - 18 Jun 2002
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2002, 10:20:34 AM »
Since it is close to lunchtime, I could really use a Big Mac.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
I don't know how I would ever have been able to look into the past with any degree of pleasure or enjoy the present with any degree of contentment if it had not been for the extraordinary influence the game of golf has had upon my welfare.
--C.B. Macdonald

Peter_Herreid

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aerial of the Day #122 - 18 Jun 2002
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2002, 10:41:30 AM »
I've been waiting for this one to arrive, as it is a "lock" for a GCA favorite.  If you're having lunch here, you better think of something "Widdy" to say!  

My 75th anniversary bag-tag from this course just arrived, reminding me it's been far too long since we moved away.  Any new updates on the "restoration", such as it is?...  Any hope of ever moving the cartpath next to #3??

It will be fun for those unfamiliar with the course to identify all the "name" holes, as I think the trees complicate finding them on the aerial, as opposed to the one from St. Louis CC we had a couple weeks ago...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Scott_Burroughs

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Re: Aerial of the Day #122 - 18 Jun 2002
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2002, 12:29:37 PM »
This is the very fun Yale GC, in New Haven, CT, by the tag team of Raynor/McDonald.  Much has been discussed here on Yale, though the par 3 and other "signature" holes are harder to pick out at Yale.

lower left is long Redan, mid-left is Short, which is just above Eden, and the awesome Biarritz 9th goes across the largest pond near the top, though green is partially shaded.

clue alert:

"prudent" and "Bush" refer to former pres. G. Bush, who was a Yalie.

"McDonald" and "Big Mac" refer of course to Charles Blair M.

"smart"=Ivy league

Mr. Cotton Gin is "Eli" Whitney=Yale's team nickname (plural).


Here's GCA's write-up on Yale:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/yale1.html

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aerial of the Day #122 - 18 Jun 2002
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2002, 12:40:19 PM »
My clue is taken from the first line of the Whiffenpoof's song in which they tribute Morey's, famous Yale watering hole.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

GeoffreyC

Re: Aerial of the Day #122 - 18 Jun 2002
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2002, 12:58:07 PM »
I stayed quiet for this one.

Here is the aerial from 1934, the date the supposed restoration was supposed to copy. It is not in the same orientation as Scott's aerial so stand on your head please  :)



Please note the beautiful snake-like bunker on #6 of both aerials (it was not yet butchered in the newer image).

Here is a ground level view


See what Roger Rulewich did to it!


Its shallower and easier to play from too. NOT JUST THE LOOK.

On the short hole, the new bunkers in Scotts aerial don't look too bad do they?  Well they are 5 feet shallower and vastly easier to play  :'( >:( :P.  For an old ground level look please see the pictures in Geoff Shakelford's great book.

Unlike Bethpage, Yale is an example of a restoration really gone bad.  The course is WORSE since Roger Rulewich got his unsympathetic hands on it.  :'( :'( :'( :'( >:( >:( >:( >:(
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:06 PM by -1 »

Allan Long

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aerial of the Day #122 - 18 Jun 2002
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2002, 01:15:22 PM »
I will be in CT on business in the Fall and would like to tee it up here. For those of you more familiar with Yale, what is their policy on outside play. Thanks.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
I don't know how I would ever have been able to look into the past with any degree of pleasure or enjoy the present with any degree of contentment if it had not been for the extraordinary influence the game of golf has had upon my welfare.
--C.B. Macdonald

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aerial of the Day #122 - 18 Jun 2002
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2002, 01:16:10 PM »
Geoff - is there any aspect of the "restoration" that you think is agreeable? It would be nice if he at least got something right. I have heard the work on 10 is not terrible, and that he returned some of the front bunkers to their original shapes, etc.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

GeoffreyC

Re: Aerial of the Day #122 - 18 Jun 2002
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2002, 01:42:29 PM »
The newer work on the back 9 this past fall is MILES better then the previous work on the front 9.

Roger was given very specific orders after I informed the powers that be about the situation and a committee was organized to raise real money supposedly for a real restoration.  George Bahto was instrumental in putting together these plans and a "white paper" describing to the athletic department among others what a valuable asset they had was presented to the school.

Still, I believe the back nine work does not pay attention to the detail required for a sensitive restoration.  For example, the 1934 aerial has a distinct finger in the "strath" bunker on the eden hole (#15) that extends up the green and creates a sucker pin location on the front right of the green.  The new bunker has a hint of that finger but it doesn't extend nearly far enough and its not because the green has shrunk and needs to be reclaimed (a few feet can be reclaimed but that would not recreate the picture of 1934). Look at the 1934 aerial at #15 (middle right of the photo) and see that finger extending into the green.

Roger really needs to go and build his original designs and leave restoration to someone who cares enough do some research and do a historically accurate job

The new bunker on #15.  Note that the "finger" extending a couple of feet towards the back of the green extends significantly further in the 1934 aerial.  I will gladly blow it up and post it if anyone can't see this already.


My blood pressure just went up - gotta go before I explode.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:06 PM by -1 »

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aerial of the Day #122 - 18 Jun 2002
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2002, 01:48:00 PM »
I forgot to mention that the "progeny" mollydooker is Mr. "Childs".
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

GeoffreyC

Re: Aerial of the Day #122 - 18 Jun 2002
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2002, 05:40:17 PM »
Scott- you had to go and post this aerial and get me all in a huff again!

A few additional points.

Unlike Rees at Bethpage, Roger Rulewich is being paid good money for his work at Yale (his former school). I'm not saying he should work for free but at least he should have the heartfelt interest and responsibility to do the research and restore the course properly.  After all, I would think (hope) that the Yale Course stirred his interest in golf course architecture during his undergraduate days.  Instead I hear second hand of his telling a member that he is a golf course architect not a historian  >:( :'(

There is an excellent post describing a Tillinghast restoration put up earlier today by Sean.  In it they describe carefully probing bunkers for their original depth and shape.  Coupled with photos, there is no reason bunkers can't be accurately reproduced.  George Bahto is currently doing exactly this at Essex CC and the lucky members are getting a striking result.  "Deep an steep" is the motto.  It is a process involving research and a bit of in the field archaeology.  It requires hand work and can't be done by a bulldozer.  Yale deserved this kind of loving treatment and it is certainly not being provided by Roger Rulewich.  

I've seen a couple of magazine articles where Roger is touting his work at Yale but is all a bunch of crap.  I wanted that to be known.  His work on the back nine and since the project was taken over by the restoration group has been overseen by a committee of nine individuals/amateurs who supposedly know what they are doing.  Perhaps if they chose someone who could do a sympathetic job there wouldn't be a need for a committee of amateurs to oversee a "professional architect".

When George Bahto's book comes out this summer, we will see some of the old photos of Yale.  I don't know all those he's selected but I assure you the contrast with the ones I've posted that were done by Rulewich will be striking.  

Its not totally his fault.  The athletic department and the school administration are also to blame for this tragic fiasco, however, as a professional architect, Rulewich should know better exactly what an asset and historic relic the golf course could be for the school.

There- now I've vented!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:06 PM by -1 »

Dave_Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aerial of the Day #122 - 18 Jun 2002
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2002, 07:25:32 PM »
Geoffrey C:
You are correct in saying that Bunkers can be accurately produced.  When we did the restoration at Charles River CC in Newton Centre, Mass. one of our real concerns was how would be able to restore the bunkers.  
Fortunately extensive research by Paul Murphy & later research by Ed Baker gave us a very good idea of where Bunkers were and how they had been changed and how they sohould be restored.  Bunkers that we thought had disappeared - guess what - Michael Drake, our shaper, found them and they still had sand in them.  Just covered over. It takes some time but it can be done.
I can recall an early Sunday morning meeting on the sixth hole where we were trying to figure out the location of a Donald Ross Bunker that had been covered over. To say the discussion was spirited is an understatement.  After a great deal of arguing, cajoling, threatening, etc.  we turned it over to Michael, guess what -  he found the original bunker, with sand still in it.  It was covered over in the 50's.  
If what I'm reading about Roger Rulewich is true.  I feel sorry for him but more so for those who will suffer from the bastardization of this great course.
Best
Dave Miller
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

GeoffreyC

Re: Aerial of the Day #122 - 18 Jun 2002
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2002, 07:33:05 PM »
Dave

Thanks-

I've seen George Bahto at work at Essex and I've seen his basement with all the research material accumulated.  It can be done as you said very well.  I'm happy that Charles River is in good hands.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:06 PM by -1 »

GeoffreyC

Re: Aerial of the Day #122 - 18 Jun 2002
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2002, 07:12:07 AM »
Joel Stewart- read this and you have an idea of what Roger Rulewich did to the course at Yale.  Pick up a copy of George Bahto's book later this summer to see what it could be.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »