[Melvyn Morrow]

I am trying to find out information on Robert Hunter & his son James. Robert went out to Georgia and lived in Darien & Mobile around 1880’s
and stayed.

They are directly related to Charlie Hunter of Prestwick Golf Club. Robert is the brother to James Hunter who helped found Royal Quebec in 1875 before moving to Darien that same year.

Richard Hunter, Andrew & William, all brothers were apparently well known locally and set up the Darien Golf Club and I am interested in any information on him or his son James. In particular if they were involved in any course designs. Robert was born around the 1850’s and I am afraid that is currently all I have.

Any information of their involvement in golf & any designs would be most welcome and appreciated.

[BCrosby]

Melvyn -

Curious. What were Hunter and son doing in Mobile and Darien at that time? Were they independently wealthy? In 1880 most people in those areas were still clearing away rubble from the Civil War. The economy was on its knees and didn't get to its feet for decades. Surely there were better places to start a golf club?

I will look for their names in some books I have.

Bob

   

[Melvyn Morrow]

Bob

In answer to your question

James Hunter travelled out to Canada in 1875 just after marrying Old Tom’s daughter Elizabeth, they stayed six months and James was the inspiration behind the Royal Quebec Golf Club. He left with Elizabeth and went to Mobile where he set up a lumber business. His home was at Darien, but business in Mobile where he had a permanent suite at The Battle House Hotel for years. James lived in Mobile until he drowned in 1886, although returned most years to St Andrews. James’ business was doing very well and he asked his brothers to come and help him run it. He was also about to become an American Citizen when he died. Robert took over the family business which had 200 lumber ships and James had just invested in 100,000 acres in Alabama.

Robert, his brother Andrew & William continued the business although he was in charge and stayed on in America. He merged the company with James friend A S Benn and formed the Hunter Benn Company. He & his son James I believe became deeply involved in developing golf in Mobile & Darien. Hence my question as I had been told that Robert Hunter is remembered as the Father of Mobile Golf. As mentioned James& Robert were related to Charlie Hunter of Prestwick

Just realised had the first James Hunter not drowned I would be an American today. What a thought, no walking, only ever riding carts, using distance and yardage aids in all their evil forms, drinking & smoking on a course and enjoying course built on land not fit for purpose - I could be an older version of Tom H. Boy, did I benefit at the misfortune of my great grandfather? Only Kidding.

I am interested if they designed any courses – I know they apparently started the Darien Golf Club on the swampy lands of the Altamaha Delta and were active in the Mobile region. 

Hope that explains and many thanks for your help.

Melvyn

[paul cowley]

Melvyn....small world.

I am involved with a historical re enactment group that is based in Darien and we portray the original Scots and Brits that founded the city in the years between 1721 and 1743, and I have done my share researching the historical record of the area.

I find reference that "William Hunter and Robert Manson managed the Hunter, Benn & company in the late 1800's and that the Manson brothers [who were Scotsman], introduced golf to Darien in the 1900's and that they formed one of the first golf clubs in America".

I find another reference that "the golf club was formed by the Manson brothers, Andrew, John and Robert, who were native Scots that introduced the Scottish game of golf to coastal Georgia.
The golf course was laid out and clubhouse built on the lands now occupied by the present high school. The Mansons were expert golfers and because of their experience in the game, the Darien Golf Club became quite well known in this section of the country during the late 19th and early 20th centuries. later the clubhouse was moved to Valona where it became a home to several generations of the Atwood family"

Darien was one of the biggest shipping ports for timber cut and floated down the Altamaha river and its tributaries....and this was a booming period in Dariens history.

Hope this helps.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Paul

Small world indeed -many thanks for the information.

As for the Manson brothers – they came out from Prestwick in 1886 on request from Robert Hunter (understand they were family friends) I believe that there were only two Robert & John. I think Andrew was James Hunter youngest brother and not a Manson. The Manson brothers did stay at Darien and look after the Hunter Benn business at that end. The Andrew you mention I suggest is Andrew Hunter (Young Tom’s brother-in-Law) and not a Manson.

Before Robert Hunter moved to Mobile he lived at Hunter House (which James had built for his wife - Old Tom’s daughter Elizabeth, sister to Young Tom) which is located on Second Street Darien and still there to this day. Although later James had a house in Mobile on Government Street but he spent most of his time at the Battle House Hotel – after his death Robert Hunter moved into his brother’s house in Mobile. Robert’s son was also called James.

The info on Darien Golf Club is most interesting, but re-check Andrew because I am certain he was not one of the Manson brothers. The Hunters & Manson were indeed Scottish.

Thanks for your help and information.

[paul cowley]

Thanks as well, and I would be interested if you could share whatever else you happen to come up with.

Paul

[BCrosby]

Paul -

Interesting. Thanks.

Do you know anything about a nine hole course that the Carnegies' built near Plum Orchard on Cumberland Island? Local lore has it that the landing strip there was once a fairway. I would swear you can still see playing corridors if you've had a drink or two and squint real hard. Anything to it?

Bob

[TEPaul]

Bob:

I think I told you at some point my semi-connection to Cumberland Island and the Carnegies, but to check out it out again it's a shame neither of my parents are around any longer to ask.

It seems Tom Carnegie was one of my father's best friends at one point. I think they hooked up in the late late 1930s or early 1940s and just after WW2 they both lived in St Augustine Florida and they opened up a couple of motels and I believe they felt they may've been some of the first motels in this country (I used to know the name of them but I can't remember now).

Anyway, they used to go over to Cumberland Island (which the Carnegies owned) a lot and one trip was one that was most memorable as it was when the world heard about Pearl Harbor (Dec, 7, 1941, a date that will live in infamy).

My father once told me he thought they named me after Tom Carnegie but when I asked my mother about that about fifty years later she said: "I'd never name a son of mine after a drunk like Tom Carnegie."

Tom Carnegie had a pretty odd and tragic demise.

By the way, going over there to Cumberland to that old Carnegie place is like getting into a tme warp!

The only course I ever heard my dad talk about around there from the old days was on Jekyll Island which is basically next door to Cumberland. And then many years later I became a good friend of a guy by the name of Smith Bagley whose family owned Sapelo Island nearby that has a most interesting history as well.

[Keith Williams]

I'll add a little regarding what I have found about early Georgia golf, though this doesn't relate to the Hunters in any way.  This is a repeat of a post I made back on the "Southern US 1920" thread from early in the summer:

"Stafford Place Links on Cumberland Island, Georgia.

Architect: unknown; Date: unknown, though probably sometime after 1887 and certainly prior to 1900.

The course was part of the Carnegie family estate on Cumberland Island (this portion of the island was more specifically W.C. Carnegie's).

In early 1901 the New York Times stated, "The Stafford Place links are among the most famous in the state"

This location's indirect role in golf history is interesting.  The Stafford estate was actually sold to the Carnegies by Walton Ferguson in 1887.  Ferguson then went on purchase all of Fisher's Island and it was, subsequently, his family that hired Seth Raynor to construct his course on Fisher's Island.  I cannot find any evidence, though, that the Stafford Place Links existed when Ferguson owned the property.

Additionally, Stafford Place is where Shinnecock Hills' young and talented professional from Scotland, Tom Hutchinson, died and is buried.  He was W.C. Carnegie's personal golf coach and while down on Cumberland Island with the Carnegie's in 1900, he was killed when thrown from a horse.

The course is NLE, and I haven't seen any signs or remnants of it in my visits to Cumberland Island.  Additional information about the course has been difficult to find.  It may just remain a little bit of a mystery."

I found most of this through internet research and the wonderful NYT archive that is available.

Keith.

[BCrosby]

Keith -

Thanks. I must have missed your post from several months ago. It is consistent with the local Cumberland lore. My reference to Plum Orchard should have been to Stafford Place. Any hints as to who designed the course?

Bob

[TEPaul]

"The course is NLE, and I haven't seen any signs or remnants of it in my visits to Cumberland Island.  Additional information about the course has been difficult to find.  It may just remain a little bit of a mystery."


Keith:

Have you ever actually asked any of the Park Service people on Cumberland Island if they know anything about the old golf course and/or where it was on the island? It would not surprise me if they do even if they may not automatically mention it to the general public on the tours and such.

I always knew the Carnegies and particularly Andrew Carnegie were rich but, MY GOD, I never quite realized how rich. It looks like on a particular FORBES list of the richest people since the industrial age in 2007 adjusted money he comes in second----worth close to 300 BILLION dollars in adjusted dollars.

[Richard Hetzel]

I am sure building a 9 hole course would have been easier than having this built on a remote island. $300 billion in today's dollars? Heck, they could almost loan the country $$ for the bailout!

Cumberland Island would be an ideal location for a remote  island golf course.

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