[Patrick Hodgdon]

For those who haven't played here's a look from the tee-box last May. You can use the stairs on the left along with the aerials to get a feel for it.

[rchesnut]

Mr. Huckaby joined me at Pasatiempo this morning, and we are in agreement that there is no shame in breaking out the driver on this tee now.  If you want to reach the green off the tee, most mortals now need a driver.

[Jim Nugent]

The bunkering in Mike Benham's aerial looks a lot different than shown in the other pictures.  Did Doak change the bunkers on this hole? 

[Kalen Braley]

Jim,

Thats an old aerial on Google.  The restored hole is very much there now.

[rchesnut]

The aerial is old.  It's interesting to compare the aerial to the pictures, it shows clearly what kind of changes occurred at Pasatiempo over the years, and what Doak did to bring back the original bunkering.   

[TX Golf]

This is an updated version of the aerial at Pasatiempo. The birds eye view is great. You have to zoom in.


http://maps.live.com/#JnE9eXAucGFzYXRpZW1wbytnb2xmK2NsdWIlN2Vzc3QuMCU3ZXBnLjEmYmI9NDYuNTU4ODYwMzAzMTE3MiU3ZS02Ny44NTE1NjI1JTdlOC40MDcxNjgxNjM2MDEwNyU3ZS0xMjIuMzQzNzU=

[Tom Huckaby]

Robert - thanks for that, but mainly thanks for finding this thread!

A few GCAers including me played the course on Monday and I am here to report....

The tee is really just an elongating back of the old tee, stretching it to a 235 marker which is a few steps from the back of the tee.  I doubt the back markers will actually be placed at 235 very often as it is so close to the back of the tee.  They were at about 225 on Monday.  Still even the addition of those 8 yards makes a difference... and if there is a back pin, well....

I tried one from the 235 marker and it's absolutely driver for me, if I want to make the green.  The shot I hit was decent - hit hard, but pulled, into the hill short of the left front bunker.  Had I hit it straight, it would have made the green.  However, it is a damn hard shot and I don't believe I'd get more than 1 out of every 4 or 5 on the green.  That being said the fine-player Rob Chestnut smacked a driver to 20 feet just about pin high to a back pin.

I imagine for the really long hitters it won't be driver.  But it will be a long club.  To that back pin it's about 255, very very uphill.

In any case this was always a great hole, and the back tee just makes it that much better.  Laying up is a very viable play now - however, no layup shot nor pitch will ever be all that easy either.

TH

[David Stamm]

Robert - thanks for that, but mainly thanks for finding this thread!

A few GCAers including me played the course on Monday and I am here to report....

The tee is really just an elongating back of the old tee, stretching it to a 235 marker which is a few steps from the back of the tee.  I doubt the back markers will actually be placed at 235 very often as it is so close to the back of the tee.  They were at about 225 on Monday.  Still even the addition of those 8 yards makes a difference... and if there is a back pin, well....

I tried one from the 235 marker and it's absolutely driver for me, if I want to make the green.  The shot I hit was decent - hit hard, but pulled, into the hill short of the left front bunker.  Had I hit it straight, it would have made the green.  However, it is a damn hard shot and I don't believe I'd get more than 1 out of every 4 or 5 on the green.  That being said the fine-player Rob Chestnut smacked a driver to 20 feet just about pin high to a back pin.

I imagine for the really long hitters it won't be driver.  But it will be a long club.  To that back pin it's about 255, very very uphill.

In any case this was always a great hole, and the back tee just makes it that much better.  Laying up is a very viable play now - however, no layup shot nor pitch will ever be all that easy either.

TH

It's just a flick 8 iron for Spaulds, don't you think?

[Tom Huckaby]

His name came up.  He is the example, the one who plays a game with which few of us are familiar....

And I am thinking it would have to be a low iron for him, at least to back pin.  255 playing at least 1-2 more clubs due to uphill. That is at least a 3-4 iron, isn't it?


TH

[David Stamm]

His name came up.  He is the example, the one who plays a game with which few of us are familiar....

And I am thinking it would have to be a low iron for him, at least to back pin.  255 playing at least 1-2 more clubs due to uphill. That is at least a 3-4 iron, isn't it?


TH

Probably. I was being a smart ass about the 8. 3 sounds about right for him.

[Tom Huckaby]

Oh I know 8 iron wasn't a real call.

 

Still... it is painful that even a shot like that would not require a fairway wood.

Does a par three exist that a guy like him would have to hit a wood to?  Maybe that nearly 300 yard one at Oakmont?

[David Stamm]

Oh I know 8 iron wasn't a real call.

 

Still... it is painful that even a shot like that would not require a fairway wood.

Does a par three exist that a guy like him would have to hit a wood to?  Maybe that nearly 300 yard one at Oakmont?

Hmmm. I'm trying to remember what he hit to 3 at Engineer's. I think he told me he hit a wood into 16 at CPC. And I don't know what he hit into 4 at Riviera. If he goes to Soule Park w/ TN and the gang, I can promise you he'll hit a wood on 15 there.

[Tom Huckaby]

Wow, 16 at CPC would only be a wood for him into a significant wind (which is pretty normal).  Sans wind it's likely 4 iron at most.

So how long is 15 at Soule?  I'm thinking the hole has to be 260+ to really make him hit a fairway wood....

TH

[Tony Gorski]

Great to hear you played Pasa Tom H.  I was just out there a few weeks ago and love #3  (happened to play it at 235yds). 

I've been fortunate to play Oakmont and the 300yd par 3 there is much easier to me.  Not that it's easy for me to hit 300yards, but you can run the ball up where on Pasa #3, that's not really an option..............any miss right and your dead.........and if you blow it into the hill left, you're left with a tricky flop or chip depending on where the flag is..........nonetheless, great, great hole.

By the way, what did you think of #16?  Doak did a fantastic job with that green complex.  I think it's one of the best two-shot holes around.


Ski.

[Jed Peters]

  I think it's one of the best two-shot holes around.


Ski.

So did Dr. MacKenzie!

[Tom Huckaby]

LOL
Yeah, I doubt Doak would take full credit for #16.

But yes, his group did a fine job restoring the green.  It's even more massive now and very very cool.

TH

[Jon Spaulding]

Wow, 16 at CPC would only be a wood for him into a significant wind (which is pretty normal).  Sans wind it's likely 4 iron at most.

So how long is 15 at Soule?  I'm thinking the hole has to be 260+ to really make him hit a fairway wood....

TH

My only round @ CPC was a 3-wood, pin high. Wind was a blowin' according to all involved. At the time I was hitting it on the order of 260. Today is a bit longer due to an improved swing, ball flight, shaft.

I would expect to hit a full 2-hybrid to the new #3 at Pasa.

[Tony Gorski]

  I think it's one of the best two-shot holes around.


Ski.

So did Dr. MacKenzie!

I'm with you Jed.  I was being a bit facetious with the popular MacKenzie reference.


On a separate note, I would love to see very early pics of #3, #10, #13, and #16.....does anyone have access to early Pasa pics?..........

[Tom Huckaby]

Tony - go to the club's excellent website....

http://www.pasatiempo.com/web/restore/

[Lou_Duran]

Just my two cents worth, why did the hole need lengthening?  Does the opening three hole stretch need stretching?  Imagine if MacKenzie never had a tee back there and Ress Jones instead of Tom Doak put one in to "modernize" the course.  235 uphill to a well-bunkered, highly contoured green, in heavy air.  Add the cross bunker to catch the "indifferent" player.  I did see my opponent at the KP, Bob Jenkins, make a wonderful birdie there off a driver.  In my four or five times on that hole, I don't think I've ever hit the green or made par.

This may have been addressed earlier, but are the nines played in the order MacKenzie intended?   

[Tom Huckaby]

Lou:

I do not know if the nines were reversed but I sure don't think so.  Also I sure as hell had missed that green about 5 times for every one time hitting it.... so it didn't need to get tougher for me!

So I do believe the hole certainly didn't NEED to be lengthened, but they had the land, it couldn't have required that much expense given all they really did was flatten out the back part of a previously existing tee, and the distance apparently was 235 originally, so why not restore the 235 tee?  Note also that since 235 is at the way way way back of the tee, I doubt the blocks will be placed there very often.  Look at it akin to the new "tournament tee" on 2, on the #9 and #1 side of the road, which has been closed every time I have ever seen it.

It took a very tough hole and just created a back tee that means a little more respect and perhaps one more club.. heck if a guy like Jon S. has to hit a hard hybrid, that's great by me.

Those for whom the extra 18 yards make it TOO difficult shouldn't be playing back tees anyway.  But for the masochistic, what those extra 18 yards also mean is you now REALLY have to respect the cross-bunker.

I like the new tee.

TH

[Tony Gorski]

Tony - go to the club's excellent website....

http://www.pasatiempo.com/web/restore/

Excellent.  Thanks! 

[Bill_McBride]

The back tee there only exists because of the crazy distance guys are hitting the ball today - I think.  At 235 the hole plays like 260.  A driver in the 1920's might be in play from 210, today that's 260.

[Tom Huckaby]

The back tee there only exists because of the crazy distance guys are hitting the ball today - I think.  At 235 the hole plays like 260.  A driver in the 1920's might be in play from 210, today that's 260.

They do have the college boys play there every year, and this extra 18 yards will make those guys take perhaps one more club.  But on top of this it will also make a few average-hitting low 'cappers like myself hit driver, where we might have hit 3wood or less before.  To me these are all good things.

But the most important thing to keep in mind - I think - is that the blocks won't be set at 235 all that often.  It really is just a step or so from the very back of the tee box.

TH

[rchesnut]

Clarifying a couple of questions:

The nines have not been reversed...the holes play in the same sequence as they did on opening day in 1929.

As for why the back tee was added, it's simple -- that's the way MacKenzie designed it.  This has nothing to do with Doak (who did not actually do this part of the restoration) nor the fact that players hit it longer today. 

When the course opened in 1929, #3 was listed at 240 yards.  Over the decades, a lot of changes were made to #3...bunkers removed, the green shrunk, and the back tee was taken out.  Most of these changes were to reduce maintenance costs, but some (like the removal of the back tee) may have been made by past presidents or greens committees tinkering with the course.   For the most part, these changes were detrimental to a great golf course.  So where practical, consistent with cost, modern equipment and safety concerns, the club wants to restore the course to the way it used to be.   I think that the restoration has been very successful in that regard, and bringing the old back tee back on #3 is just one more step in that process.

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