[Eric Smith]

In the fall, the island is pretty darn spectacular. 

Shot 4 bizillion and it mattered not.  The course and the company couldn't be beat.

Some pics from Harbour Town - enjoy.


The 1st



Bunkering at the 3rd



4



see there's room back here



bunkering at 6 green



behind 7 green



carolina squirrel



Choke down, keep it low, spin it back



bump and run?



up close at 13



now viewing the same green from behind, quite a different perspective



14



found this present behind 17 green


You can see Haig Point from Harbour Town's 18th tee



18
into a 40 mph wind - making it play nearly 500 yards today
crush 2 wood + crush 2 wood to the back of the green...and a 3 putt 



Last group gets the pins

Later I'll post some pics from Dye's redo next door at Heron Point.  It is more typical of the type shaping you expect to see from Mr. Dye. 

edit - more pics added

[Carl Nichols]

Does anyone think Harbourtown is underrated because it's public?  Perhaps my view is skewed because I played it three times in absolutely perfect conditions and weather, but I have it higher in my list of personal favorites than it gets ranked by the mags. 

[Anthony_Nysse]

VERY OVERRATED.....

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Colonial CC
Ft. Worth, TX

[Matt_Ward]

Anthony:

Would love to hear your reasonings for the last comment.

Please don't infer I'm not in agreement with you but it just might be by degree.

Thanks ...

p.s. You know there are people who feel the same about Colonial.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Matt,
  I am well aware that people that some people think that Colonial is overrated. In fact, when I first got here, I wasn’t so sure where it got its ranking, other than its history. I'm hoping that the work that Keith Foster and TDI International did this summer will change the tone of any of the doubters.
  As for Harbour Town-I was fortunate to play here quite a few times in my 4 years at Long Cove Club. HT is a completely different golf course than LCC and I believe that was intentional by Mr. Dye. IMHO, HT is never in very good shape until about 3 weeks before the tournament and 3 weeks after. That’s when the ryegrass seems to be at its peak.  For the near $300 a round HT costs, I really think that you’re paying for the approach shot to #16, the tee shot on #17 and the views and shots on #18. The rest of the course was cutting edge for its time, but really has just set on its rankings and its marketing.  I think that the par 3s are world class. I was just never taken back by HT. 3 “wow” holes (16, 17 & 18) don’t justify its ranking or its green fees.

Tony Nysse
Asst Supt
Colonial CC
Ft. Worth, TX

[Andy Troeger]

Tony,
I think we've discussed this before but I've got to disagree with you on Harbour Town. I don't think its underrated--lower part of the top 100 seems about right to me. There are certainly Pete Dye designs I prefer, but I think there's more to the course than the par threes and the last few holes. It is completely different from Long Cove, and both are excellent, just in different ways.

I was pleasantly surprised in that it was in excellent shape when I played it in January a few years back. Certainly softer than LCC with the overseed, but all things considered very well done.

[Jeff_Mingay]

I'm very thankful to Tony for hosting me at Long Cove a day after I last played Harbour Town, a few years ago. But I also have to disagree with his assessment of Harbour Town. Pitched to choose between the HT and Long Cove, I'd play Harbour Town.

And, I think there are a number of very distinct, interesting holes at HT besides the three-hole finish; notably 1, 2, 4, (I like 6), 7, 8, 9, 10, 13, 14 and 15. Including the last three, that's 13 holes of distinction, and excellent quality in my (humble) opinion!

Harbour Town's one of a kind; which is it's greatest attribute (so is LC, in fact). And very good golf, too, despite turf conditions at certain times of the year (and the $300 green fee... which I would NEVER pay).

[Matt_Ward]

Anthony:

Thanks for your detailed reply.

I had the pleasure in playing HT at least two dozen times while a student at South Carolina. No doubt my last round there was quite some time ago but I agree with your take that basic conditioning was always an issue at HT -- save for the tournament -- 3 weeks prior and 3 weeks after.

When HT hit the scene it was embraced as cutting edge and rightly so. Dye wanted a complete difference in presentation to what RTJ was doing and the 6,600 yard (at that time) layout fit the bill.

I see the course today in a much lesser light. The fairways are too clogged and you are right there are just a few holes of real note. The four par-3's are well done -- I also like the par-5 15th to the remaining trio of holes encountered when ending a round.

Is HT still a top 100 course in America? It may be for some but not for me because the competition throughout the USA has clearly added a good bit of quality layouts since then.

By the way -- I have not been back to Colonial since the work of Keith Foster. I have a huge amt of respect for his work and if time allows during my next foray to The Lone Star State I hope to see firthand what's been done there.

[Eric Smith]

As far as course conditions go, well my pictures speak for themselves.  The place is in excellent shape and we're what, 6 months out from the 2009 Verizon Heritage.  And though I didn't pay the daily fee this time, I was told it's $225 or so right now, I think it's a place worth that fee absolutely.  It goes back up to around $300 before the tournament so go now and save the $75 or so.  You're still wearing shorts and short sleeves and the beer and shrimp taste better than ever. 

[JLahrman]

MMMMM shrimp.  When my family used to go, we'd get some shrimp right off the boats, my dad would clean them and then we would chill them and have shrimp cocktail.  Delicious.

Regarding the course, some holes (11 and 12 in particular) seem overly clustered.  There are some really neat features - I love the greens at 9 and 13, and as mentioned the par 3s are great.  I'm a bit concerned that the course is becoming dated as some others have posited.  I would love to play the course again, it's been some time, but I don't know if I would cough up $225 for it...

[Eric Smith]

Jim:

You are right in regards to 11 and 12.  Though I left there after playing the other day with a newfound respect for that intimacy, especially on 11.  I was in good shape off the tee, 9 iron in hand, had 135 to a front pin, hit the perfect yardage, a high slightly drawing shot and BAM, that damn tree there protecting the front right portion of the green said no thank you sir.  I just stood there, fuming silently in disbelief, and one of the guys I'm playing with, who works there at HT says to me from the green, "Welcome to Harbour Town."  I still can't get over the fact that that tree got in the way of a sure fire birdie.  But I love it all at the same time.  It's different and that's it's appeal, at least it is to me.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Matt and Eric,
  The maintenance staff does as good of a job as possible there. Thats a tough course to maintain because of the trees and difficulties in drying it out and always having to transition from rye to bermuda and bermuda to rye. Some of those holes are like playing though a tunnel and that makes it VERY hard to grow grass...I'd like to see anyone do it better than Gary Snyder and John Wright.
  Eric, you played at the best time of year for the bermudagrass-its had all summer to grow in a heal and become a base for a good overseed. Theyre probably about 2 weeks, max, away from overseeding. Unfortunatly for the maintenance staff, they have to overseed and water in play, because the weather in HHI is the best this time of year.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Colonial CC
Ft. Worth, TX

[Matt_Ward]

Eric:

That's good to know / re: turf quality. What's been said about past years is quite true from my time there over the years.

I would think it might be helpful if the trees were pulled back on a few holes -- possibly it could help with sunlight penetrating the dense canopy and assisting with the turf quality even further.

HT is a course that should be celebrated but I tend to agree w Anthony -- the focal point is more about the concluding holes there -- first time visitors often can't imagine that you don't see the famed lighthouse until standing on the 18th tee.

If some form of makeover could be thrown into the mix I see HT reclaiming a spot among m personal top 100 in the States. I guess so much of my original thinking on this post has been geared towards past playings where the conditions were far from anything remotely close to ideal.

[Wade Whitehead]

Regarding whether or not the closing holes are the only good ones:

I believe the 8th at Harbor Town is as good a par four as the Tour plays all year.

WW

[Eric Smith]

Went back to Harbour Town recently and snapped some more pics.   The place was in perfect shape tee to green. 




































































Enjoy watching the Verizon Heritage this week -

Eric

[Richard Hetzel]

Nothing like a good set of Ping ISI's!

WOW, that is one tight course. No wonder many of the longer hitters shy away from that tourney! Great pics, thanks!

PS:  I am sure I would shoot a bazillion +1

[Anthony Gray]

  Thanks Eric....A great flat course. I love 13. One of my favorite greens. The first time I played HT the people I played with were completely confused by 13. Very unique. Crazy Crab!!!

  Anthony

[David Whitmer]

I've never played it, and from the looks of it, if I was claustrophobic I would not be able to play it. I played Haig Point, and felt it was too tight to the point of absurdity. It appears as though some holes (not 17 and 18, but most of the others) are equally narrow.

It looks like a beautiful golf course. Due to my own lack of accuracy, it seems like I would end up paying $300 to punch out from under trees all day long.

[tlavin]

I've always had a spot in my golf heart for Hilton Head in general and Harbour Town specifically.  I like watching the pros play the course every year.  They defend the pros with trees and small greens, which is only half bad!   As for playability for us regular hackers, it is tight and it is difficult, but the main negative is that the carts have to stay on the path, leading to slow play.

[Eric Smith]

Yes siree it's tight.  Listening to Boo Weekly comment on XM146 this morning, this is THE reason he loves it so much.  Citing his love of having to work the ball.  I'll be pulling for him to 3peat this week.

I'm tempted to pack a bag and drive down on Friday with the kiddies since the wife is on a trip.  It's only fair, right?


Terry,

The cart rule does suck.  My brother in law is caddymaster there at HT, take him out with you next time you're there and walk.  Double bag him while you're at it, he needs the exercise!

fwiw- I met your buddy Brian Doyle-Murray at Palmetto Dunes when working there years ago.  Heard his voice on the putting green at the Fazio course before noticing it was him, unmistakable voice...we did the 'keep it fair' thing, nice of him to play along.

[Eric Smith]

  Thanks Eric....A great flat course. I love 13. One of my favorite greens. The first time I played HT the people I played with were completely confused by 13. Very unique. Crazy Crab!!!

  Anthony

Kibinooga,

The first time I saw 13 green, I think 1991 Heritage?, I thought it was the coolest feature on a golf course I'd ever seen.  It was also the first time I saw my favorite golfer Payne Stewart in person. He played a sw out of that bunker, nearly holing it for bird.  Everyone there loved Payne.  Man he was awesome to watch play the game.

CRAZY CRAB?! If only you drank beer to truly enjoy what that crab pot is supposed to taste like!! 

[Greg Tallman]

I too would have to give the nod to Harbour Town over Long Cove.

[Sean Leary]

fwiw- I met your buddy Brian Doyle-Murray at Palmetto Dunes when working there years ago.  Heard his voice on the putting green at the Fazio course before noticing it was him, unmistakable voice...we did the 'keep it fair' thing, nice of him to play along.

I met him at Prairie Dunes a couple of years ago in the same fashion, I knew he was going to be there, but would not have recognized him unless I heard his voice. Super nice guy.

[Kirk Gill]

This may be a totally ignorant thing to ask, but I guess if I wasn't ignorant, I wouldn't ask so many questions.

Did Jack Nicklaus have anything to do with the design of this course? I seem to remember reading that somewhere......

[Mike Benham]

Big "what if" ...

What if 90% of the trees were removed?

What if the holes carved out of the trees, were 20 yards wider on each side of the fairway and approaches to the green?


How would the course play?  Would the enjoyment of a round of golf improve, would there be enough challenge?

How would the pros score?

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