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RDecker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Courses with No Pars assigned
« on: June 22, 2002, 09:35:01 AM »
I've recently taken a superintendent's position at a 9 hole
Donald Ross course in Lee, MA and have made an interesting
discovery.  I inherited a copy of the original Ross design and
in addition to offering a different sequence of holes than is
actually in play now the Card lists hole numbers and yardages
but no pars.  It's as if Ross was suggesting that the game be
contested at match play, against the players previous scores or for the simple pleasure of striking the ball and not in relation to par as American golfers are so compelled to do.
The concept seems to be very Scottish and I was wondering
if anyone else is familiar with his or any other architects penchant for omission of par assignments on a design plan.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Paul_Turner

Re: Courses with No Pars assigned
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2002, 10:13:40 AM »
Swinley Forest (1911, near London) had no par up until about 10 years ago (maybe less).  And no handicaps for the members, I think.

I believe Muirfield used to do this too.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses with No Pars assigned
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2002, 11:38:27 AM »
I'm fairly certain that this year's Open venue, Muirfield in
Scotland, has no par's written on its card.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

RDecker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses with No Pars assigned
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2002, 12:04:13 PM »
The club had assigned par to each hole long ago, but the
concept of golf without pars is very fascinating.  I have the
original plan on a disc and if someone could let me know how to put on this site I'd like to post it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Dave_Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses with No Pars assigned
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2002, 02:40:54 PM »
RDecker:
The original course design of Charles River Country Club, Newton Centre, Ma. is hanging in the Men's Locker Room at the Club.  It list hole number and yardage for all 18 holes but no par.
In trying to learn about Donald Ross one of the items that constantly came up was that Donald Ross probably never assigned par to a hole or a course.  I think this is probably true of many of the great designers of his era.  Match play was very much in vogue.  Par appears to have been done by members at some point.

Fairways and Greens:
Dave Miller
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses with No Pars assigned
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2002, 03:16:47 PM »
Some aspects of this concept are discussed on the "Rolling Green-Thoughts" thread.Check the second page.When several reachable par 5's are on the course or even reachable par 4's then PAR per HOLE seems to lose value.Maybe "par for the course" should be used.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
AKA Mayday

Mike Erdmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses with No Pars assigned
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2002, 04:45:01 PM »
Paul, Muirfield actually does list par for each hole on the scorecard.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jeff Mingay

Re: Courses with No Pars assigned
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2002, 05:48:40 PM »
I've looked at numerous Ross plans and have NEVER seen par assigned to individual holes. Brad Klein would know for sure if Ross evern assigned a par value to his holes, but I don't believe he ever did.

The Outlook newspaper of Pinehurst once described Ross as "of the puritan school, a lover of the old Scotch foursome," and went on to say he abhorred the lavish use of a scorecard.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jeff Mingay

Re: Courses with No Pars assigned
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2002, 05:50:56 PM »
On aside, I think it's wonderful that Notre Dame University agreed not to assign par to the holes on the school's new Bill Coore/Ben Crenshaw designed course. I'd like to see more courses do the same.

What is the usefulness of par anyway? Really. The lowest score always wins regardless of par.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses with No Pars assigned
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2002, 11:32:24 PM »
Jeff,
On the Warren Course website the hole-by-hole tour at the top of the screen does not mention the par on any of the holes - it justs gives yardages.
http://www.warrengolfcourse.com/course.htm

However if you click on the scorecard on the left side of the page it does list the par on every hole.  

Anyway I'll be playing it in August and I am looking forward to seeing it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses with No Pars assigned
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2002, 10:38:20 AM »
Mike Erdman:

I have a few cards from Muirfield used over a number of years and on some of them there is no par shown. In fact they are the smallest cards I've ever seen, no bigger than a roll of postage stamps.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »