[JWinick]

Ravisloe Country Club is on the brink of closing down for good.  As of now, they are scheduled to close in two weeks and the future is uncertain.   

We breezed through 45 holes on Friday and the course is in great condition.   It's a Donald Ross course with wide fairways and playing angles and some very challenging greens.  The course is relatively short (6300/Par 70), but it's a joy to play.

For years, a core group of members have propped up the club and funded the deficits, but they are getting sick of doing that.   Unfortunately, it's an old Jewish club in an area that is declining due to Jewish members vacating the area and too many golf courses in an area that can't support more than 2-4 clubs. 

http://www.southtownstar.com/news/1211340,100908ravisloe.article

There's talk of a few members buying the club.  I was just thinking that a wealthy member could buy the club, convert the clubhouse to residential use, and have a great golf course to himself! 

If a golf course has very limited play, what's the cheapest you can run it and still keep it in good condition?       

[Mike Sweeney]

I know nothing about this course or its location, but I have always felt there was a place for buying an 18 hole course, cutting it back to 9 holes and building houses on the other. Instead of 1 guy, you spread the risk with 50 of the current members who may also buy a house. Still not easy but worth a look by the membership.

[Dan Herrmann]

Mike,
That's what the owner of Downingtown CC (PA) tried to do.  The local authorities stopped him in his tracks.  Not enough open space left, 55+ housing has taxation issues, etc..  Plus, the citizens flooded local govermental meetings in opposition

[Steve_ Shaffer]

This could be an opportunity to convert this club to semi-private status with the members retaining tee times for weekend and holiday mornings and perhaps Friday afternoons. They could also boost outing sales.

OR

Some golf management company could purchase or lease the club and convert it to daily fee or an annual membership club.

OR

The city could purchase the club or acquire it by eminent domain in order to keep it "green space." This is what happened with Reading CC in PA. Casper Golf now manages that club for Exeter Township.

[Thomas MacWood]

That's a shame. I don't know if it was the first Jewish country club in America, but has to be one of the first. Its golf architecture history is even more interesting than its Ross association. The course actually dates back to 1901. I'm not sure who designed it - Tweedie, Foulis, Whigham, Macdonald, Watson are likely candidates. In about 1910 the course was overhauled by Watson in conjunction with Aleck Bauer. The work was carried out Robert White, who was the Ravisloe pro.

Aleck Bauer is really the man behind this golf course. He wrote the most under appreciated golf architecture book 'Hazards', published in 1913. Bauer also oversaw changes to the course in 1915 and 1916. I'm not sure who if Ross was involved or not at that time, I don't think so. Ross was involved in 1918; he rebuilt the 18th green and added a new 15th hole. But Bauer was the primary guiding force behind Ravisloe.

I don't know if their original clubhouse is still standing or not, but it was designed by David Adler in 1902. There is a lot of history at that place.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Ravisloe was formed in 1901. Century in NY was the first of the Jewish clubs, having been formed in 1898.

www.ravisloecountryclub.com

[JWinick]

Tom:

I'm optimistic.  There are 85 equity members that really care about the course.   Moreover, the Homewood/Flossmoor school district does not have any more room and they are not allowing any new residential development in the town.   So, if the general economy and the city make it difficult to redevelop the site with houses, I suspect that the golf course should be left alone for the forseeable future.

If the club declares bankruptcy and defaults on its note, the club will end up in the ownership of its bank.   Hopefully, a few members will buy the club prior to that.

While the clubhouse was built in 1902, it's a moneypit.  You are better off tearing the clubhouse down, leaving the golf course, and renting/buying a few temporary trailers to house the pro shop and locker room until the club can afford to build a new club house.  

[wsmorrison]

Tom,

Why do you say Bauer's book is under-appreciated?  

[TEPaul]

Wayne:

Good point. "Hazards" has certainly never been underappreciated by me or some of the other golf architecture historians I know such at The Creek's George Holland. For some reason it seems whenever Tom MacWood mentions anything on here he thinks he's the first and only one to be aware of it or to have ever considered it. I have no idea why he's always been that way but it certainly is a curious way to approach this entire subject of golf course architecture and its history. Perhaps he suffers from some kind of inferiority complex we should all be aware of if we are ever going to understand this constant approach of his on here. It's like he has some continuous need to prove he knows things noone else does.

[Adam_Messix]

I'm sure that with the economy the way it is, this would not be the best time do this, but would it be possible for the community to purchase Ravisloe and turn it into a public golf course?  With the recent decline in real estate prices, it would be possible to purchase the course at a relatively low price and maintain it as greenspace.

I think this may have been recently by another club in the area whose name escapes me at the moment.

[JWinick]

The community already purchased another private club a few years ago.   So, I doubt they have the stomach to purchase another one.

[Thomas MacWood]

Wayne
I think Bauer and his book are both underappreciated. If you do a search on GCA for 'Aleck Bauer' you will find very few hits over the last nine or so years. When the popular question is asked what golf architecture books would you recommend the book rarely comes up. Bauer's name is never mentioned when with subject of amateur/sportsmen is discussed. And I don't believe Brauer is mentioned or profiled in either The Architects of Golf or The Golden Age of Golf Design.

[TEPaul]

Mr. MacWood:

With Bauer and his book "Hazards" perhaps you need to do a bit more research than just searching GOLFCLUBATLAS.com before you make some claim that the book or Bauer are under-appreciated! Either that or perhaps you should begin to learn how to consider better what it really means "to Know what you don't know!

[Adam Clayman]

I'd like to know how a club that's 107 years old is owned by the bank?
Especially a Jewish club.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

It's not owned by the bank....yet. They owe money to a bank for loans used to refurbish facilities and the course. Most clubs borrow the money and assess the members for the loan.If the club defaults, then the bank will seek a judgment and take possession. The 85 equity members have been funding deficits...so far.


Ravisloe is not the first, and won't be the last, of the "historically Jewish" clubs to face a declining membership due to the changing demographics of their community. There are numerous examples nationwide. Some clubs are NLE- Ashbourne in Philadelphia, for example. Others have "opened" membership policies- Brynwood in Milwaukee, for example. Others have been sold and are now public- Berkleigh in Reading, PA, for example.

[Adam Clayman]

It seems very odd that a 100 yr old club would lack the fiduciary responsibility (or mechanisms) to allow this to happen.

But in a world where individual responsibility will be bailed out by the new comrades in charge, I suppose OPM is the new vogue.

[Tim_Cronin]

Ravisloe, with the only pink clubhouse I know of in the Chicago area, has been losing members for years, not uncommon among Chicago's south suburban clubs. A restoration of Ross features by David Esler a few years ago was a success, but didn't bring in new members. The club dropped its all-Jewish concept quite a few years ago, as did nearby Idlewild, but that didn't pull in many members either.

There just isn't the money in the area, and there hasn't been since the steel business in nearby Gary-Hammond dried up and the railroad business slowed. Those were the two big industries within 10 miles of the clubs more or less along the Illinois Central (including Ravisloe, Calumet, Flossmoor, Idlewild, Olympia Fields and Lincolnshire), and they haven't been replaced.

The course the Homewood-Flossmoor Park District bought several years ago was Cherry Hills, a public-play course that had been closed by its owners. It was completely rebuilt with a new routing and is known as Coyote Run today.

[Tony Ristola]

Have to agree with Tom MacWood... if Bauer and his book aren't discussed and appreciated... profiled here, where would they be?

Vernon Macan gets far more discussion sans book.

[PCCraig]

Jon-

Interesting about Ravisloe. I would be interested to see just how into the red they are. If they knew they were in financial trouble, why did they go ahead and restore the course with Dave Esler? How much did that cost the membership?

Pat

[tlavin]

The imminent closing of Ravisloe is unwelcome but not entirely unexpected news here in Chicago.  For the past ten years, the clubs in the south suburbs have gone through fits and starts in their fight to stay afloat.  Two other clubs, Idlewild and Calumet, also seem to be teetering on the edge of collapse.  The course at Ravisloe is better than either of those, IMHO, and the clubhouse is a real charmer.  The latest rumor that I heard (just last week from a very good source) is that there is a very rich Chicago investor who wants to buy the course.  He has enough money to keep it functioning as a golf course, but he would probably keep it for himself and a small number of well-heeled friends.

Ravisloe has about 80 members who have valiantly kept the club afloat.  They will be an asset to whichever club they decide to join, but they will really feel the absence of their club.

[Mark Smolens]

I've heard that 21 members of Ravisloe have already left and joined Idlewild.  Rav is a very fun track.  David E. did a beautiful job on the green complexes, tho with modern green speeds you can face some impossible putts (not that there's anything wrong with that ).

The problem that most of the south suburban courses face is the changing demographics of their communities and the large number of courses in a closely confined area.  The decision to do the renovation was, I believe, thought to be their only chance to attract some new blood to the membership.  When you are competing with places such as OF and Flossmoor, and your course is 6400 yards from the tips, I think you had a pretty tough market to try and compete for those new members.

[Mark Smolens]

I just heard that the number of members moving to Idlewild (along with the chef!) is 40.  Hopefully someone will keep Rav open on a semi-private basis.  It'd be a nice place to play once a month for us public course guys.

[Jeff Goldman]

Very sad about Ravisloe, but I hope it remains open.  Outstanding work by Esler on a budget of somewhere around $400,000.  I think the Club sold some land to pay for it.  I also heard that David paid for one of the bunkers himself because he thought it needed to be in there.  The green sites are a blast.

Certainly true that local South Side clubs are struggling, and the economy won't help.  A big reason Olympia Fields is strong is that it attracts a lot of its membership from Chicago and the Western suburbs, and has a strong national membership.  Aside from Beverly and maybe Evanston, OFCC is the most convenient option for city dwellers.

[JWinick]

Pat,

The renovation was several years ago when the club was in better financial condition.  If you look at the other clubs in the South Side (OFCC, Flossmoor, Beverly, etc.), most have undertaken a renovation in the past 10 years.   Furthermore, the core group of 85 equity members have been so passionate about protecting their club and have funded operating deficits for years.   With little prospects of the club turning things around, my impression is they have decided to look for alternatives.

If I were king, I'd demolish the clubhouse which is the biggest source of their operating losses.   Reopen it as a golf-only club with no frills but an outdoor barbecue and a trailer as a locker room and pro shop.  Right now, they are only open for lunch between 11-1, so the club isn't really using their big clubhouse. 

The historical preservationists wouldn't like me, but I've never been a member of the "save every old building club."   Some things need to be saved, but it's got to make economic sense.  I've worked with and battled preservationists before in Tennessee and sometimes they have no sense of economic reality. 

Jon-

Interesting about Ravisloe. I would be interested to see just how into the red they are. If they knew they were in financial trouble, why did they go ahead and restore the course with Dave Esler? How much did that cost the membership?

Pat

[JWinick]

From downtown Chicago, I might add Riverside and Bryn Mawr as the closest.   

Very sad about Ravisloe, but I hope it remains open.  Outstanding work by Esler on a budget of somewhere around $400,000.  I think the Club sold some land to pay for it.  I also heard that David paid for one of the bunkers himself because he thought it needed to be in there.  The green sites are a blast.

Certainly true that local South Side clubs are struggling, and the economy won't help.  A big reason Olympia Fields is strong is that it attracts a lot of its membership from Chicago and the Western suburbs, and has a strong national membership.  Aside from Beverly and maybe Evanston, OFCC is the most convenient option for city dwellers.

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