[Chip Gaskins]

Page 134 of this month's Golf Digest.

Can you tell us what the sideways Biarritz is like that you are working on at Sand Creek Station.

Also, this month's Golf Digest has about 10-15 pages on hole design.  Mainly a tribute to Macdonald.  Pretty much every architect on this board has contributed to the article.

[Forrest Richardson]

Peacock Gap No. 7 is what I referred to as a sideways Biarritz, sometime last year.

[TX Golf]

The 17th green on the Terra Lago South Course (formally Landmark) in Indio, CA is a sideways biarritz. It is a par three about 150 yards. It for a fun shot with the pin is on either of the three possible levels.

[Forrest Richardson]

Peacock Gap No. 7, looking at green from the left as the hole is played.

[Thomas MacWood]

A great concept - one of Walter Travis's favorites.

[Adam_Messix]

There may be a picture somewhere of it, but the 8th hole of the Valliere Nine at Morfontaine has a green that would probably be described as a sideways Biarritz.  The hole is a short par five and the green is outstanding.  I'm glad the hole location when we played there was on the left as it made the hole much more difficult to birdie.

[Jeff_Brauer]

The SCS green is at the end of a possible/not probable reachable par 5.  The valley extends well down the fw as well.  I'll have to pick up the mag to see what Ron W says about all of us copying CBM so much.  I guess we must all be putting Merion tribute holes in our designs, eh?  (sorry, couldn't resist!)

[Forrest Richardson]

I hardly think CB should be the subject of copying...CB was the ultimate in replication, sort of a Xerox machine of his time.

[Bill_McBride]

Guys, a "sideways Biarritz" is a Double Plateau.

Trust me on this.

#17 Yale is perhaps the best example.

[paul cowley]

Yes Bill is right....But its not as much what you call it, but that you recognise its play value and that you build it.
I'm glad to see my colleagues are doing so, and yes, we have built one as well....#6 at the Retreat course on St Simons Is.

We are also soon to unveil a true reverse biarritz....a double plateau where the middle is raised and pinnable...Ricefield's #15.

[Matthew Mollica]

RTJ Jnr did a sideways Biarritz at The National at Cape Schanck, Mornington Peninsula, Australia.

The hole was the 6th originally, but with a clubhouse move and renumbering of holes, it is now #11.

A blind drive is played to a wide fairway. In favorable conditions, long drivers may take advantage of the downslope to set up a very short pitch to the green. Other days, into the wind, all golfers are left with a difficult mid-iron ( or more! ) second shot from a downhill lie. The green is divided into three sections by two severe spines. A shot to the middle section avoids the bunkers left and right, but leaves a difficult two putt par if the hole is cut on either wing of the green. If par is sought when the pin is other than centre, risks must be taken to place the approach shot on the desired plateau. Or the first putt must be of high quality.

Click on the following link and then proceed to hole #11. The green is in the distance, and not that easily seen, but you'll get the picture.

http://www.nationalgolf.com.au/guests/golf/old.mhtml

Matthew

[Tom_Doak]

Paul:  If your "raised middle plateau" is as cool as the 18th green at Valhalla ... don't say I didn't warn you. 

[Mike_Cirba]

Kelly Moran built a couple of dramatic double plateau, sideways Biarritz greens at Hawk Pointe in NJ, on the ahort par four 6th and par three 13th if memory serves.

They played quite nicely, effectively reducing the size of the effective target areas while also leading to some interesting "recovery putts". 

[Jeff_Brauer]

Bill McBride,

A rose is a rose by any other name!  (But I see your point)

I tend to agree with TD on the middle plateau being raised vs. a valley.  I can't explain why but its usually a visual nightmare, although I don't mind the occaisional putting problems that a raised center plateau may cause.  At least on one green per round.

[Bruce Leland]

Bill McBride,

A rose is a rose by any other name!  (But I see your point)

I tend to agree with TD on the middle plateau being raised vs. a valley.  I can't explain why but its usually a visual nightmare, although I don't mind the occaisional putting problems that a raised center plateau may cause.  At least on one green per round.

So to call a rose another name.....would the raised center plateau be an inverse biarritz?

[Buck Wolter]

Arcadia Bluffs has an interesting version of a Double Plateau -- it's a par 5 with the green perpendicular to the fairway across a waste area. If you can go for it in two it plays as a double plateau but if you lay up your third is into the Biarritz. 

[Bill_McBride]

Bill McBride,

A rose is a rose by any other name!  (But I see your point)

I tend to agree with TD on the middle plateau being raised vs. a valley.  I can't explain why but its usually a visual nightmare, although I don't mind the occaisional putting problems that a raised center plateau may cause.  At least on one green per round.

I like your Shakespearean reference.  I'm just a hopeless romantic enamored of the CBM template holes, and I really love to see their influence on modern designs.

#1 at Mountain Lake is a bit of a triple plateau I think.  I appreciate any design work that makes the golfer think.

[Kalen Braley]

CPC #8 is a triple plateau of sorts.  A very very fun green to putt and fool around on like 7 at BN.

[David_Tepper]

The 4th hole at Adobe Creek (Petaluma,CA, RT Jones, Jr.) and the 13th hole on Struie course at Dornoch (Robin Hiseman) have greens that fall into this category (whatever you want to call it). Both holes are par-5's and the greens are pinnable on all 3 levels.   

I do think this is an effective way to parcel a large green into smaller segments.

[Ronald Montesano]

I believe that Travis used the SB/DP green at Stafford in Batavia, New York.  I'll have to check my sources.  He also should have one at Lookout Point in Ontario.

[Jim_Kennedy]

I thought a 'Double Plateau' green has three distinct and pinnable areas, vs. a Biarritz which has only two.

[Bruce Leland]

I thought a 'Double Plateau' green has three distinct and pinnable areas, vs. a Biarritz which has only two.

Since Jeff is referenced in the thread title I feel it appropriate to pass this along.  The only time I played Wilderness at Fortune Bay the hole location was in the bottom of the Biarritz "trough" on the tribute green.  So at least one Biarritz has three pinnable areas.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Bruce,

I recall debating just how wide to make that valley, and eventually widening it just enough to where a pin could be put down there every once in a while for fun.  After all, it is a resort course, meant for fun.

At Fox Chapel, I think the valley is similarly pinned on occaision, but most Raynor Biaritz swales aren't. As always, I could be wrong.  Either way, its a case of me taking what I like from the templates, and ddoing what I want with them to make the best design possible.

[Sean_A]

I would have thought the king of sideways Biarritz greens is North Berwick's 16th.  Mind you, aprt of the brilliance of that hole is how the oob is used.  The closer you get to oob the straighter the shot and hence more green space there is to use for the approach. 

So far as high middle and low ends greens, the 5th at Beau Desert works very well,perhaps because you can't tell the configuration of the green until you are practically on it. 



Ciao

[Bruce Leland]

Bruce,

I recall debating just how wide to make that valley, and eventually widening it just enough to where a pin could be put down there every once in a while for fun.  After all, it is a resort course, meant for fun.

At Fox Chapel, I think the valley is similarly pinned on occaision, but most Raynor Biaritz swales aren't. As always, I could be wrong.  Either way, its a case of me taking what I like from the templates, and ddoing what I want with them to make the best design possible.

Jeff:   I thought the hole location was FUN.  After all, you are hitting a 9 or wedge to it, you've got a back board to keep it in the valley if you are a reasonably accomplished player.  I thought it worked very well given that the difficulty in the hole is picking the right club off the tee to lay up to your yardage.  I'm anxious to play it again on one of the other two tiers.  Well done, JB.

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