[Patrick_Mucci]

Jeff Warne,

The golf course was NOT remodeled 3 times in 15 years.

In fact, it's yet to be remodeled, with the exception of a tee that turned out to be on property not owned by the club, causing the hole to have the tee shortened and the hole reclassified as a par 4 from a par 5.

It is now the fantastic 12th hole.

This also caused # 10 to be transitioned to a par 5 from a par 4, due to the club's desire to retain par 72.  As a par 5 it had its green altered.  That alteration no longer exists.

It now plays as both a par 4 and par 5

The course is essentially the same today as it was when it opened, circa 1961+.  Some contouring has been lost in # 3 and # 9 green.

Where did you come up with the idea that the course was remodeled three times ?

[John_Conley]

Pat, no one is going to argue with you.  However, I can tell you where he got the idea.  Look at the cut n' paste list I pulled from the GD site.  Lee, Forse, and Weed.  All called a remodel.

[jeffwarne]

Jeff Warne,

The golf course was NOT remodeled 3 times in 15 years.

In fact, it's yet to be remodeled, with the exception of a tee that turned out to be on property not owned by the club, causing the hole to have the tee shortened and the hole reclassified as a par 4 from a par 5.

It is now the fantastic 12th hole.

This also caused # 10 to be transitioned to a par 5 from a par 4, due to the club's desire to retain par 72.  As a par 5 it had its green altered.  That alteration no longer exists.

It now plays as both a par 4 and par 5

The course is essentially the same today as it was when it opened, circa 1961+.  Some contouring has been lost in # 3 and # 9 green.

Where did you come up with the idea that the course was remodeled three times ?

Uh, Pat,
Crazy me.
two of the three architects listed in the Golf Digest (which someone else posted and I reposted)
 list Pine Tree on their websites as courses they "restored"  (1997 Ron Forse)-which I presume restored what Joe Lee "remodeled" in 1990
or "redesigned" ( Bobby Weed 2005)

I guess someone will "restore" (since 2005 is called a redesign) it soon and the cycle will continue

Should someone mention to the architects that it's never been remodeled/restored/redesigned?
because they seem to think so and list it on their sites.
I'll bet when the club paid their architect fees they felt something had been done.


I've never been there, but somebody's felt the need to bring in multiple architects(although 1990's architect du jour was part of the original team).
Must've been seamless if you didn't notice

Pat,
I have no beef with Pine Tree or you--
I was just having a little fun
I'm sensing an onslaught of green ink

Pine Tree's slide down the list and multiple architect's "involvement" does point out how tastes and styles fall out of favor with raters (and perhaps green committee members)
By all accounts Pine Tree was/is a great place

[Jim Franklin]

I enjoyed Pine Tree when I played there. I thought the greens were particularly interesting and allowed a variety of ways to attack the hole. I certainly believe it is top 15 in Florida maybe even top 10.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat, no one is going to argue with you.  However, I can tell you where he got the idea.  Look at the cut n' paste list I pulled from the GD site.  Lee, Forse, and Weed.  All called a remodel.

John,

Didn't your folks tell you not to believe everything you read ?

The golf course was NOT remodeled, unless you consider tree removal removal and some restoration work a remodel.

I'd be curious to know what each one of them did to merit calling their work a remodeling of the golf course.

No one changed the routing and the holes are all essentially in tact, with the exception of # 10 green.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Crazy me.
two of the three architects listed in the Golf Digest (which someone else posted and I reposted) list Pine Tree on their websites as courses they "restored"  (1997 Ron Forse)-which I presume restored what Joe Lee "remodeled" in 1990 or "redesigned" ( Bobby Weed 2005)


Jeff,

Isn't this the same site that went bonkers when Rees's website took some liberties in describing the work his firm did at a golf course ?

None of those descriptions accurately portrays or describes the work done by each firm.

I can assure you that the golf course was not systemically remodeled or restored by any of the individuals quoted.

I guess someone will "restore" (since 2005 is called a redesign) it soon and the cycle will continue

Probably.

As much as I like Pine Tree, I'm not a believer in revolving door management, especially when it changes every two years.

But, despite that operating model, Pine Tree remains mostly unchanged over the last 40 years.

Should someone mention to the architects that it's never been remodeled/restored/redesigned?

Feel free to contact them at your leisure.

because they seem to think so and list it on their sites.

I guess if something is listed on a website, it must be accurate.

I'll bet when the club paid their architect fees they felt something had been done.

They did, and it wasn't a remodel/restoration/redesign

I've never been there, but somebody's felt the need to bring in multiple architects(although 1990's architect du jour was part of the original team).


As I indicated earlier, there was a problem with land, not owned by the club, where the tee for a hole extended onto that land.

I believe that Joe Lee, who worked under Dick Wilson, was brought in to assist with that issue and its derivitives.

Must've been seamless if you didn't notice

Removing Banyans/Strangler Ficas doesn't qualify as remodeling, restoring or redesigning.

Much of the work done was fine tuning rather than any of the three R's.

Pat,
I have no beef with Pine Tree or you--
I was just having a little fun
I'm sensing an onslaught of green ink

You see, for once you're right.

Most would be hard pressed to detect any changes over the last 18 years.

The course is essentially as Wilson left it, save for the tee on # 12 and the 10th hole, which were part of the property issue.

Pine Tree's slide down the list and multiple architect's "involvement" does point out how tastes and styles fall out of favor with raters (and perhaps green committee members)

I've thought about Pine Tree's slide over the last dozen years or so.
It's interesting to see the courses that leap frog it and then disappear.

I think the ratings, post 1960, tend to be subject to the "new kid on the block" "latest flavor" syndrome.

Pine Tree is a great walking course and an enjoyable, fair challenge, especially when the wind is blowing, which is almost every day.


By all accounts Pine Tree was/is a great place

It really is.  And, it's got a great bunch of guys as members, and they'll play with everyone, even TEPaul.

Let me know if you're going to be in that neck of the woods and I'll arrange for you to play it.

[Mike_Young]

Pine Tree is Top 5 in FL-A standout golf course with a very good golfing memberhsip. I could play there everyday. i think that Pine tree is better than almost anything Florida has to offer and has stood the test of time, as well.  Bob Murphy and Karrie Webb are members. When I was there, Steve Scott and his wife were there also, I believe members. Steve is now a pro at Canoe Brook, I believe.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Colonial CC
Ft. Worth, TX

Tony,
It might be better than the top 5 IMHO

[John_Conley]

John,

Didn't your folks tell you not to believe everything you read ?

The golf course was NOT remodeled, unless you consider tree removal removal and some restoration work a remodel.

I'd be curious to know what each one of them did to merit calling their work a remodeling of the golf course.

No one changed the routing and the holes are all essentially in tact, with the exception of # 10 green.

Pat, no reason to direct this toward me.  I don't care.  If it bothers you, contact the folks at GD.

[Patrick_Mucci]

John,

Didn't your folks tell you not to believe everything you read ?

The golf course was NOT remodeled, unless you consider tree removal removal and some restoration work a remodel.

I'd be curious to know what each one of them did to merit calling their work a remodeling of the golf course.

No one changed the routing and the holes are all essentially in tact, with the exception of # 10 green.

Pat, no reason to direct this toward me.  I don't care.  If it bothers you, contact the folks at GD.

It doesn't bother me.

You made a statement and indirectly asked a question and I addressed it.

I can't help it If you're unhappy with my response.

If it's inaccurate, please correct me.

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