[Matt_Cohn]

Can you prove otherwise?

[Ronald Montesano]

I don't care to try.  Sorry.  Nice course, exciting like Augusta used to be.  Actually you might be correct.  Interesting concept.  I do like Whistling Straits, although I'll be fifty-freaking-five when they play the Ryder there in 2020.

[Marty Bonnar]

I kind of thought that while I liked the look of the place, that it had a slightly disshevelled, unco-ordinated look.

I felt that it didn't possess a singular overall feel, but tried (maybe a bit too hard) to be all things for everyman.

There seemed to be elements of links, parkland and maybe even heathy-ness to some of the golf holes. I swear I turned on the tv a few times last week and didn't know I was watching ryder cup coverage.

Celtic Manor of course is lovely...

FBD.

[Bill Gayne]

I don't know what prove it means but I would prefer the Ocean Course, Whistling Straits, TPC Sawgrass, or Muirfield Village.

[RichMacafee]

I kind of thought that while I liked the look of the place, that it had a slightly disshevelled, unco-ordinated look.
FBD.

Uncoordinated is a good description, I like it.

There were stripes going left, right and centre on the fairways, fringes and roughs - I don't think I have ever been so annoyed at mowing patterns. There is only one thing worse than stripes on the fairways, and that is stripes in the roughs, they looked awful.

The bunker presentation was weird, with thickish rough close to the fairway, then a shorter cut around the bunker. There were some nice looking natural areas - and then artificial stones and rocks in others.

Probably all summed up by the 7th hole really. A bit of everything, some good, some terrible.

[Ronald Montesano]

Maybe the mowing patterns were Azinger's secret strategy!! (Other thread)

[Kalen Braley]

No disrespect to Valhalla, but they could have played the Ryder Cup at lowly Lincoln Park in San Fran and had just as good if not better fun and drama.  The views and nightlife would have sure been a helluva lot betters, that for sure.   

[Mike Benham]

For match play, TV, excitement and birdie chances?  Sure why not ...

[Andy Troeger]

No disrespect to Valhalla, but they could have played the Ryder Cup at lowly Lincoln Park in San Fran and had just as good if not better fun and drama. 

Knowing nothing about the course you site (but getting the idea) I'm calling no on that. There's some saying that when something happens once its unique, twice is coincidence, and three times is a pattern. Three good events (especially the last two) at Valhalla indicate a pattern of events with compelling drama for championship golf. It may not be the perfect golf course or anything close to it, but I do NOT think any other old venue could produce the same atmosphere and excitement. That said, Valhalla is certainly not the only venue that can produce such drama--but its a good one. Part of that is that it was set up for the players to have risk/reward chances that led to lots of birdies for well-executed play. Some of these courses are just too dang hard which leads to conservative play and boring events. Match play without question has a big impact as well.

[JNC Lyon]

The Ocean Course at Kiawah Island.  That should show itself in 2012.  The 1991 Ryder Cup was arguably the most exciting of the modern Europe--USA cups.  The course was wild, producing high scores and weird outcomes (Calcavecchia, Langer, etc.)  It's only gotten better since then.

Valhalla, although I'm sure it's not a truly great course, carried plenty of interest for me this week.  The 7th is undeniably wild, but I think it is a fantastic par five.  This is probably more true for amateur golfers, who have two legitimate options to choose from.  It would also force more choices in stroke play, because having that second shot from the left fairway is scary no matter how perfect your drive (see Sergio).  The 12th is unique looking par four not seen on many modern courses.  The 18th hole also consistently produces great finishes (1996 PGA, 2000 PGA, four ball matches on Saturday).  Is it the best? No.  Is it better than Torrey Pines, Sahalee, Firestone, or The K Club for watching a tournament? Absolutely.

[TX Golf]

The greatest venue in modern championship golf??? Come on.   Last time I checked there have been a few other courses with some fairly dramatic golf. How about one of the greatest courses in the country... Oakmont. I would say it was fairly compelling when Miller came back to win. Els won in a playoff against Monty and Loren Roberts, and 2007 with Furyk, Woods, Cabrera and others was no slouch. Pebble has to be up there as well. Some of the greatest most memorable finished in golf. Watson chip in, Woods winning after being 7 down with 7 to go, and woods' 2000 victory. While not dramatic, we were able to witness the greatest 72 holes ever played in tournament golf. There are plenty other if we want to get into the details. Winged Foot with Love, Zoeller, Pavin, and Mickelson's collapse... Shinnecock with Pavin and then Goosen and Mickelson.... And arguable the best of all. AUGUSTA. The Norman finished, Jack, Arnold, the battles a few years ago with Tiger, Phil, and Duval. These are all great courses that produce drama.

After writing this I noticed a common theme seems to be Mickelson losing!!

Robert

[Lloyd_Cole]

The Ryder Cup made even the K Club in to a great 'golf for TV venue'...

[Anthony Fowler]

I'm not sure why everyone loves watching birdies so much.  We could just have all the PGA tournaments on well-mantained but average golf courses and see birdies galore.  Just watch the Nationwide tour if you want that.  Oakmont, Winged Foot, Oak Hill, Oakland Hills, Olympic Club, Shinnecock,  Carnoustie, and Muirfield and great tests of golf and a hell of a lot more fun to watch a tournament on that Valhalla.

My vote goes for Oakmont.

[JNC Lyon]

If not mistaken, the thread pertains to modern golf courses.  Certainly I would chose Oakmont,  Winged Foot, or Pinehurst over any of these other courses, but as far as modern golf courses go, there aren't too many that combine strategy, drama, and birdie chances.  Therefore, Valhalla isn't a tremendously bad choices.

However, there are probably 200 classic venues you could choose over it.

Also, to throw another championship course in the mix: Spyglass Hill.  Why is nothing played here outside of the Pebble Beach Celebrity Schlockfest?  This is probably the only WELL-KNOWN Trent Jones course I can excited about watching.

[TX Golf]

Not that it is televised or publicized nationally but they do host the California Amateur and Spyglass on some years... Its a great golf course that could produce some drama. Just image if 1-5 could magically become 14-18.

[TX Golf]

Also... I read the thread title to mean modern golf..... not modern courses. I guess it could be interpreted in more than one way.

Robert

[Kirk Stewart]

How compelling would the Ryder Cup be at TOC ?? I think foursomes alone would be worth the price of admission.

[JNC Lyon]

Which TOC?

[Kirk Stewart]

Which TOC?

Are there 2 ?

[Martin Del Vecchio]

My Ryder Cup wish list:

1) The Old Course
2) Augusta National (with the greens slowed down 1 notch, and the rough removed)
3) Cypress Point
4) The Players/TPC Sawgrass

[Pat Burke]

Was fortunate enough to play in the first PGA at Valhalla, and if I may.  The course was pretty ordinary for a major, but what made the event were the people.  It had the best atmosphere of any tournament I ever played.  I was middle of the pack on the weekend, and it was still electric.  The atmosphere with kenny Perry and Mark Brooks was one of my favorite times in tournament golf.
So, I would say that Valhalla is definitely a great venue for major golf if not a great golf course  imho

[TX Golf]

There is The Old Course and The Ocean Course.... However I am assuming you meant the old course due to the fact that it was already held at The Ocean Course.

[Jim Nugent]

Was fortunate enough to play in the first PGA at Valhalla, and if I may.  The course was pretty ordinary for a major, but what made the event were the people.  It had the best atmosphere of any tournament I ever played.  I was middle of the pack on the weekend, and it was still electric.  The atmosphere with kenny Perry and Mark Brooks was one of my favorite times in tournament golf.
So, I would say that Valhalla is definitely a great venue for major golf if not a great golf course  imho

Pat, an OT question that just came to my mind.  A year or so ago, I read Lee Trevino say that many pro players don't like Augusta National.  I'm pretty sure he meant the course itself.  Any comments on that? 

[Sean_A]

From a live spectator PoV Valhalla is hard to beat.  All those hills which make the course a bit ott really help for viewing pleasure.  Many of the holes looked sort of similarish to me, but one hole really stood out - I don't recall which #.   It was the one with the green set an an angle and two bunkers in front sort of staggered - leaving a gap to get through, but often taking the ball away from the hole.  This is a great hole.  I think its #16.

Ciao

[Shane Gurnett]

Matt. Is it a better championship venue than Royal Melbourne ?

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