[Chris Kane]

Of course, you can always just play the courses and sod the culture

...and drink Bud Light!

[Doug Wright]

Can you understand what great is without playing the second tier courses?  Who's to say that great and Open Rota courses are the same thing?  Is Troon really great and Elie not, simply because one is long and hard enough to host the Open?  Shouldn't a once in a lifetime trip to the UK at least include some experience of courses like Elie, Crail, North Berwick and Cruden Bay?

Agreed.

However, to each his own [Insert eye-rolling emoticon here]

[Daryl David]

All great advice from Sean.

Re Muirfield, is the ability to book just 18 a local thing, or new?  When I went it was definitely the full 36 plus lunch or nothing.  But it was several years ago.  In any case, man I still find that to be very fun, particularly for the one-time visitor.  But you are right that N. Berwick is not to be missed.  Decisions, decisions....

 

You can book 18 only.  I have done it twice mainly due to not wanting to play foursomes in the afternoon.  Would much rather head to North Berwick for an afternoon round than hit alternate shot.  Too high a price to pay for the whole lunch in a suit and tie thing.

Wow.  I don't think I have ever disagreed more with such a simple post.  Muirfield is an experience.  It's a whole day.  If I was flying from the States for a weeks golf I'd bring my jacket and tie just to make sure I could do the whole 36 holes and lunch.  Frankly, if you're visiting the UK to experience British golf then a day at Muirfield (with jacket and tie and lunch) is an unmissable insight into a part of that.  Of course, you can always just play the courses and sod the culture -  a version of JK's hit and run but that wouldn't be for me.

Color me jaded.  I guess I might agree with your advice if this is a first and possibly last experience of UK golf for someone.  After over 10 trips, I guess I am too golf focused.  I should have been thinking of the original post.  If this is Brian's first and maybe last trip, then I surrender.  Get that suit and tie and spend the whole day at Muirfield! 

But if he ends up giving up North Berwick for lunch and a round of alternate shot and then never gets back.....................    Ouch!!!

[Bill Gayne]

I once  flew from Shannon to Glasgow/Prestwick round trip on Ryanair. It was dirt cheap and they made both ends of trip.

[Brian Cenci]

Do you guys think that Old Head is worth a look based on the price?  Also, any thoughts on Doonbeg?

[Jim Nugent]

Doak's Renaissance Club is right next door to Muirfield and N. Berwick.  Another course to consider. 

Hope you take your camera! 

[Jason McNamara]

Do you guys think that Old Head is worth a look based on the price?  Also, any thoughts on Doonbeg?

I think in both cases (and maybe even wrt Waterville) that most on this site would instead steer you to the north from Lahinch / BB (i.e. Carne / Enniscrone / Rosses Point / Portsalon) rather than south.  Something like

1. land Shannon,  Ballybunion - Old  (& BB New if time?)
2. Lahinch x 2
3. Enniscrone  Carne
4 & 5.  Some selection of
        Co. Sligo Donegal Portsalon Rosapenna Portstewart
6. Royal Portrush - 36
7. Royal County Down   County Louth
8. if able to walk, see Dublin
9. Portmarnock   Royal Dublin  (Ryanair night flight to PIK)
10. Royal Troon   Prestwick
11. Turnberry - Ailsa   W Gailes
12. St. Andrews - Old   
13. St. Andrews - Castle   Kingsbarns
14. Gullane - No. 1   North Berwick - West
15. Muirfield   Muirfield

Wouldn't recommend that for everyone, but I have seen your past trips - and this is still tame by comparison.

[jeffwarne]

Do you guys think that Old Head is worth a look based on the price?  Also, any thoughts on Doonbeg?

no
I just assumed you had your heart set on it
based on price, no Doonbeg either

but then I think your whole trip is going to be quite expensive.
I'd skip one area (at least) and play a few more courses that are nearby, excellent, and give you more of a "local" experience- example
play Dooks if near Waterville
Play Portrush Valley if playing Dunluce (I preferred it)
Play Portstewartrt and Castlerock

Play The Island and Portmaronack
County Louth is a good choice
etc.(and many others that you could locate via a golf map on the internet if you focus on a slightly smaller area)
Louth and The European Club the same day would be brutal  BTW

I've done some brutal itineraries, but you do have to factor bad weather, bad roads, and less than perfect timing of tee times -and I surely haven't done 15 days of 36 hole days

[Brian Cenci]

Do you guys think that Old Head is worth a look based on the price?  Also, any thoughts on Doonbeg?

I think in both cases (and maybe even wrt Waterville) that most on this site would instead steer you to the north from Lahinch / BB (i.e. Carne / Enniscrone / Rosses Point / Portsalon) rather than south.  Something like

1. land Shannon,  Ballybunion - Old  (& BB New if time?)
2. Lahinch x 2
3. Enniscrone  Carne
4 & 5.  Some selection of
        Co. Sligo Donegal Portsalon Rosapenna Portstewart
6. Royal Portrush - 36
7. Royal County Down   County Louth
8. if able to walk, see Dublin
9. Portmarnock   Royal Dublin  (Ryanair night flight to PIK)
10. Royal Troon   Prestwick
11. Turnberry - Ailsa   W Gailes
12. St. Andrews - Old   
13. St. Andrews - Castle   Kingsbarns
14. Gullane - No. 1   North Berwick - West
15. Muirfield   Muirfield

Wouldn't recommend that for everyone, but I have seen your past trips - and this is still tame by comparison.

Jason,
     I've heard differeing opinions about Waterville.  Some really like it and some don't think it's worth the further drive south after Ballybunion.  What are your thoughts?

-Brian

[Matt MacIver]

My $0.02:   

3) I love seeing hidden gems but the way I plan my trips is to see as many "great" courses as I can, as I'm still trying to understand what "great" is.  Decades from now when I retire I'll go back and play my favorites again and finally discover some of those hidden gems.  I treat every golf trip as if it's the first and last time I'll be there.  

Can you understand what great is without playing the second tier courses?  Who's to say that great and Open Rota courses are the same thing?  Is Troon really great and Elie not, simply because one is long and hard enough to host the Open?  Shouldn't a once in a lifetime trip to the UK at least include some experience of courses like Elie, Crail, North Berwick and Cruden Bay?

I agree completely - one needs to see the good, bad and ugly to accurately sort out, in your OWN MIND, which is which. 

My guess is we all have played the bad and ugly, locally.  So when I travel, and pay big-$ tourist money, I try to play the "good", as judged solely by me through due diligence including gca.com, friends, and yes even rankings. 

But all the ones listed above are on The List...just give me time ...and money ...and permission . 


Bob H. - in response to your comment on my comment re: Western Gailes, I did enjoy it but didn't love it - a few great holes and a really solid course, but since I value elevation change and quirk my two can't miss courses are Turnberry and Prestwick, if I were to only play two in the area. 

[Tom Huckaby]

In terms of the practicality of how to do this best, I agree with you.

My advice was approximately 1% about golf trips and 99% about marriage. 

Think of it that way.  If you are married and especially if you have kids, you will understand.

Tom, surely there is a difference between a once-in-a-lifetime and once-in-20 years?  Presuming you'll never go back somewhere seems very negative - he may not go back there for a very long time, but the better attitude is to presume that he'll get the chance to see the things he missed another time.

It doesn't just apply to golf.  I backpacked around Europe for five week last year - the list of things I was disappointed to miss is longer than the list of things I did see.  I have no idea if and when I'll make it back there, but I didn't let that affect how I planned the trip.  The biggest mistake one can make is trying to do too much in too short a time period.

I will defer to your greater experience of marriage and kids (I have none!), but if I've been taught correctly, kids grow up and become independent adults!

Chris - stick to that last line.  Once again, my comments really weren't about about planning golf trips - they were about what to expect from marriage, and life with kids (if that occurs). 

TH

[Mark Chaplin]

IMHO;

I visited the US in May and June, 10 courses in 11 days all US top 100s and a couple of world top 10s, thanks to very kind hosts especially Dan Moore in Chicago I never drove once and by the end of the trip was getting very tired. Do not under estimate the need for a rest day, I only had one and that was due to a storm and our hosts family commitments.

Personally I'd arrange the entire trip around The Old Course and Muirfield. A jacket and tie is essential,  British golf is about the entire experience not just 18 holes a quick club sandwich and onto the next course.

Play 36 at Prestwick ignore Troon.

Consider Northern Ireland and a week in Scotland, relax for a day and see Edinburgh.

Enjoy!

[Brian Cenci]

IMHO;

I visited the US in May and June, 10 courses in 11 days all US top 100s and a couple of world top 10s, thanks to very kind hosts especially Dan Moore in Chicago I never drove once and by the end of the trip was getting very tired. Do not under estimate the need for a rest day, I only had one and that was due to a storm and our hosts family commitments.

Personally I'd arrange the entire trip around The Old Course and Muirfield. A jacket and tie is essential,  British golf is about the entire experience not just 18 holes a quick club sandwich and onto the next course.

Play 36 at Prestwick ignore Troon.

Consider Northern Ireland and a week in Scotland, relax for a day and see Edinburgh.

Enjoy!

What are the options for getting on the Old Course?  There's the singles line, booking service and some application?  We're a year out or so from going so what should I be doing to assure myself and two companions get on?

-Brian

[Daryl David]

Everything you need to know is right here.

http://www.standrews.org.uk/golf/book_golf/advanced_old.html

Better get ready for Sept. 3 when advance bookings are open and be right on the time when you hit the send button.

[CJ Carder]

What are the options for getting on the Old Course?  There's the singles line, booking service and some application?  We're a year out or so from going so what should I be doing to assure myself and two companions get on?
-Brian

Keep in mind, assurances are not everything.  I'll illustrate what I mean by my experience last August...

I had everything ready to roll with the application on September 3 and sent off my application.  Received word back about 3-4 months later that they did not have any available times and our application had therefore been rejected.  This was a huge downer because we already had our schedule mostly complete and a few areas fixed (Muirfield).  Still, we decided to go on to St. Andrews, play Kingsbarns, and figure out a way onto the Old Course.  The day prior to arriving in St. Andrews, we placed our names in the ballot and had no luck.  The next day, we put our names in the ballot and no luck again.  With only 2 days in St. Andrews remaining and fearing that we wouldn't get the ballot for the last day either, we got up at 3:30 am and headed out to the singles line where we were #'s 4-7 in line.  Getting really lucky, an Old Course Hotel 4some had only 1 person show up at 7:20 and the last 3 of us all get out in one group together.  That afternoon we found out we'd gotten into the ballot on Saturday and wound up playing twice for the trip.

Point is, whether it's the singles line, the ballot, or the advance booking, I really have a hard time believing that if you're going to spend 2 or more days in St. Andrews you won't be able to get out on the Old Course. 

The funniest thing about that trip was, we'd run into a group from Perry Golf the night before at dinner and they were gloating about their guaranteed tee time the next day, for which we eventually got out of them (after a few pints) that they'd paid roughly $1500 more than our trip.  And they didn't even get to see Muirfield!  All the gloating stopped the next morning when they showed up for their 7:30 tee times only to see us going off in the group directly in front of them.

Sure, we likely had less sleep than they did, but isn't the underlying topic of this thread about experiences?  Getting up at 3:30 am and standing in line for the Old Course, finding out we'd get to play, and them calling our name for that tee time is something I'll never forget.

Just remember not to schedule your day in St. Andrews for a Sunday since the course turns into a public park and is closed for play.

[Brian Cenci]

What are the options for getting on the Old Course?  There's the singles line, booking service and some application?  We're a year out or so from going so what should I be doing to assure myself and two companions get on?
-Brian

Keep in mind, assurances are not everything.  I'll illustrate what I mean by my experience last August...

I had everything ready to roll with the application on September 3 and sent off my application.  Received word back about 3-4 months later that they did not have any available times and our application had therefore been rejected.  This was a huge downer because we already had our schedule mostly complete and a few areas fixed (Muirfield).  Still, we decided to go on to St. Andrews, play Kingsbarns, and figure out a way onto the Old Course.  The day prior to arriving in St. Andrews, we placed our names in the ballot and had no luck.  The next day, we put our names in the ballot and no luck again.  With only 2 days in St. Andrews remaining and fearing that we wouldn't get the ballot for the last day either, we got up at 3:30 am and headed out to the singles line where we were #'s 4-7 in line.  Getting really lucky, an Old Course Hotel 4some had only 1 person show up at 7:20 and the last 3 of us all get out in one group together.  That afternoon we found out we'd gotten into the ballot on Saturday and wound up playing twice for the trip.

Point is, whether it's the singles line, the ballot, or the advance booking, I really have a hard time believing that if you're going to spend 2 or more days in St. Andrews you won't be able to get out on the Old Course. 

The funniest thing about that trip was, we'd run into a group from Perry Golf the night before at dinner and they were gloating about their guaranteed tee time the next day, for which we eventually got out of them (after a few pints) that they'd paid roughly $1500 more than our trip.  And they didn't even get to see Muirfield!  All the gloating stopped the next morning when they showed up for their 7:30 tee times only to see us going off in the group directly in front of them.

Sure, we likely had less sleep than they did, but isn't the underlying topic of this thread about experiences?  Getting up at 3:30 am and standing in line for the Old Course, finding out we'd get to play, and them calling our name for that tee time is something I'll never forget.

Just remember not to schedule your day in St. Andrews for a Sunday since the course turns into a public park and is closed for play.

I've had my fair share of wake up at 3:30 a.m. to make a tee time.  I would gladly do that to have a chance to play the Old Course.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Just take this Map, ask the old boys outside the pubs for directions and you'll have a whale of a time.

http://www.golfadventureguides.com/IrelandGolfSat/



(NB this kind of thread pops up regularly and they are always popular because they allow us to sureptitiously start planning our own next trip. )

[Tom Huckaby]

Brian:

Man I hate continually being the old-man voice of caution, but here I go again....

CJ's situation worked out GREAT for him; just note his first part about their being no assurances.  Just imagine how he would have felt if it had not worked out as it did... if the remaining days they were shut out also... man it would suck to be that close to the Old Course and not play it.

I too have had success getting on through the ballot - many others here have as well.

But you have to ask yourself - do you want to risk it?

I'd say at the very least you go through the application process on 9/3.  If it works, great, you're in.  If not, then you decide what further actions to take.  I don't think it's worth $1500 extra to make things happen, but well... if the price gets closer, maybe it is.  The last thing you want is to miss courses you really want to play.

If you are interested in doing this through a travel company - and yes it will cost more, but just how much more is hard to say - I would highly recommend the one I used once, wide world of golf, out of Monterey and Austin.  Ask for Bill Hogan.   

TH

[Jim Nugent]

Everyone who is urging caution and restraint, remember what Brian said in his first post:

"Dave and I are seasoned stateside travelers (embarking on a week long driving trip or two a year across the country), once taking on a 7500 mile, 16 day trip in which we played 18 courses, 24 rounds while driving from Lansing, Michigan to Bandon, Oregon."

These are young guys with energy to burn.  Between golf in the day, and pubbing at night, sounds like one fine trip. 

Brian, I urge you to go ahead with your 36 holes a day plans, even if it means tons of driving, covering Ireland, N. Ireland and Scotland.  You can cut back if you find it gets to be too much. 

[Tom Huckaby]

Everyone who is urging caution and restraint, remember what Brian said in his first post:

"Dave and I are seasoned stateside travelers (embarking on a week long driving trip or two a year across the country), once taking on a 7500 mile, 16 day trip in which we played 18 courses, 24 rounds while driving from Lansing, Michigan to Bandon, Oregon."

These are young guys with energy to burn.  Between golf in the day, and pubbing at night, sounds like one fine trip. 

Brian, I urge you to go ahead with your 36 holes a day plans, even if it means tons of driving, covering Ireland, N. Ireland and Scotland.  You can cut back if you find it gets to be too much. 

Fully agreed with that.  In that respect I am right with them - play all day, drink all night, sleep when you get home.   

Just in terms of planning which golf courses to play, well... man the sure thing sure is tempting.  But hell, I'm sure it will all work out just fine.

[Jack_Marr]

Sounds like a great trip. Everyone's right so far.

They are nearly all members clubs in Ireland, but you can pay a greenfee on every single one of them. Unless this has changed very recently.

Also, depending on when you're going to Ireland, you may be able to bargain with the clubs regarding a greenfee rate.

And everyone's right about the driving, but there are many new roads opened since some of the board members might have played here, and there will be no toll barriers and extra lanes on the Dublin ring road by the time you get here.

If you're here during the summer months, the traffic isn't that bad, but when the schools are back, it's brutal. 

[Chris Kane]

CJ's situation worked out GREAT for him; just note his first part about their being no assurances.  Just imagine how he would have felt if it had not worked out as it did... if the remaining days they were shut out also... man it would suck to be that close to the Old Course and not play it.

I too have had success getting on through the ballot - many others here have as well.

But you have to ask yourself - do you want to risk it?

Tom, you've been particularly negative in this thread! 

Yes, he should seek to make the advance booking in September.  If he isn't successful, there is no need to panic and support the disgraceful Old Course Experience operation.  If he enters the ballot on two straight days, and tries to walk on if not successful, the odds of him not playing are tiny.

As you know I worked in a St Andrews hotel for twelve months; I spoke to hundreds of people who arrived without a tee time.  Our advice was to enter the ballot and/or get in the line before 5am (in high-season).  During my time there, not one guest missed out on playing the Old Course. 

It really isn't that difficult.  All he needs to do is ensure that he's there on two days where the course is fully open (avoid Sundays, R&A meetings, amateur tournaments etc).

[Tom Huckaby]

Chris:

Well, as I posted before, I hate being negative.  It's not my normal thing.  But man these things are not to be taken lightly!   

Just answer one more worried-wart question then:  I'd agree the odds of him NOT getting on as a SINGLE after three straight days of trying the ballot are small; but what about getting his threesome together?  That would remain a longshot, no?  That's more what I was referring to.  And of course it might be fun playing as a single... but experiencing that course with friends is pretty darn cool.

And again, I am certainly not advocating him supporting "the Old Course Experience."  What I suggested was that he might use a travel company and see what they can do.  Perhaps that's the same thing these days?  When I did this (several years ago now) it was most assuredly not.

TH

[Jason McNamara]

     I've heard differeing opinions about Waterville.  Some really like it and some don't think it's worth the further drive south after Ballybunion.  What are your thoughts?

Brian, since I haven't been to Waterville, I can't honestly say.  I was just looking at it from a geography perspective, using the collective wisdom (?!) here.  You can swoop around fairly quickly from BB to Lahinch (esp. w/ the ferry at Tarbert), but Waterville becomes much more a case of doubling back.  Also, Waterville gets you into Ring of Kerry Tour Bus Hell (tm).

(for the ferry see http://www.shannonferries.com/timetable/ )

Btw, that route I gave you is about 1100 km (700 mi) in Ireland, precious little of it on anything resembling a US highway.  The Scotland part looks like more of a coach + taxi arrangement from hub to hub, but I will defer to others there.

[Brian Cenci]

Want to thank everyone for their posts....all this information ahs been very very helpful.  I'm in the midst of planning, writing letters, etc. and some of the trip issues will depend on that but everyone's opinions, as always, has been invaluable.

-Brian

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