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USGA Announces Rules Changes on Golf Club Grooves
« on: August 05, 2008, 01:25:13 PM »
USGA ANNOUNCES RULES CHANGES ON GOLF CLUB GROOVES
 
Far Hills, NJ (Aug. 5) – The United States Golf Association (USGA) today announced revisions to the Rules of Golf, placing new restrictions on the cross sectional area and edge sharpness of golf club grooves.
 
The revisions are designed to restore the challenge of playing shots to the green from the rough by reducing backspin on those shots. The initial focus of the new rules will be competitions involving highly skilled professional golfers and will have little impact on the play of most golfers.
 
The rules control the cross sectional area of grooves on all clubs, with the exception of drivers and putters, and limit groove edge sharpness on clubs with lofts equal to or greater than 25 degrees (generally a standard 5-iron and above).
 
The rules apply to clubs manufactured after January 1, 2010, the same year that the USGA will enforce the new regulations through a condition of competition for the U.S. Open, U.S. Women’s Open and U.S. Senior Open and each of their qualifying events. All USGA amateur championships will apply the new regulations through the condition of competition, after January 1, 2014.   
The PGA Tour, the European PGA Tour, the LPGA, the PGA of America and the International Federation of PGA Tours have all indicated their support for the new regulations on grooves. Each of these organizations, as well as the Augusta National Golf Club, have told the USGA and The R&A, the game’s governing bodies, that they intend to adopt the condition of competition, applying the rules for their competitions, beginning on January 1, 2010.

 “Our research shows that the rough has become less of a challenge for the highly skilled professional and that driving accuracy is now less of a key factor for success,” said USGA Senior Technical Director Dick Rugge. “We believe that these changes will increase the challenge of the game at the Tour level, while having a very small effect on the play of most golfers.”
 
The research undertaken and published by the USGA and The R&A demonstrates that for shots from the rough with urethane-covered balls (the type of ball most used by highly skilled players), modern, sharp-edged U-grooves result in higher ball spin rates and steeper ball landing angles than the V-groove designs used predominantly in the past. The combination of a higher spin rate and steeper landing angle results in better control when hitting to the green.  Shots from the rough become more similar to shots from the fairway, creating less challenge for shots from the rough.
 
“The scientific research on the effect of grooves on spin and the ability of highly skilled professional golfers to control shots from the rough was very compelling,” said Jay Rains, USGA vice president and chairman of the USGA Equipment Standards Committee. “The USGA and The R&A took additional time to consider fully the potential ramifications for all levels of golfers.  In particular, we took care to minimize the impact on amateurs who actively compete in club and local competitions, as well as other golfers who do not want to replace recently purchased clubs.”
Clubs manufactured prior to January 1, 2010 that conform to current regulations will continue to be considered conforming to the USGA Rules of Golf until at least 2024. This includes clubs purchased after that date from manufacturers’ existing model ranges. (According to the Darrell Survey of consumer golf equipment only two percent of irons in use are older than 15 years.) So long as these clubs continue to be conforming they may be used for establishment and maintenance of a USGA Handicap Index.

“Ultimately, we came to the conclusion that the path forward was to get the top-level professional tours under the new groove regulations as soon as possible and to phase in the next level of amateur competition four years later, in 2014,” said Rains. “This means that clubs you own today will still be conforming for top-level amateur competition for another 5 1/2 years and, for other competitions, conforming until at least 2024, if not indefinitely.”
 
The rules revision on grooves concludes a process of nearly three years of research and testing conducted jointly by the USGA and The R&A. Manufacturers and other interested parties were given an opportunity to review the proposed regulations and provide their comments to the USGA and The R&A, which resulted in meaningful modifications to the original proposal issued in February 2007.
 
Although currently conforming clubs with V-grooves will continue to conform under the new rules, the new rules do not mandate the use of a V-shape. The new regulations permit club designers to vary groove width, depth, spacing and shape to create clubs that conform to the new groove rules. In addition, all Ping EYE2 irons manufactured before March 31, 1990, will continue to be treated by the USGA as conforming to the Rules of Golf, and will be acceptable for all USGA competitions.
 
Additional information about the Rules changes is available at www.USGA.org/equipment.
 

Dean Stokes

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Re: USGA Announces Rules Changes on Golf Club Grooves
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2008, 01:35:29 PM »
Hopefully they'll follow this up by making 56 degrees the most loft you can have on a club and rolling the ball back 10 years. :P
Living The Dream in The Palm Beaches....golfing, yoga-ing, horsing around and working damn it!!!!!!!

Richard Hetzel

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Re: USGA Announces Rules Changes on Golf Club Grooves
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2008, 01:38:19 PM »
Running out to pick up a set of Spin Milleds right NOW!
Best Played So Far This Season:
Crystal Downs CC (MI), The Bridge (NY), Canterbury GC (OH), Lakota Links (CO), Montauk Downs (NY), Sedge Valley (WI)

Richard Choi

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Re: USGA Announces Rules Changes on Golf Club Grooves
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2008, 01:47:18 PM »
Raging on a different set of rules for "pros" and "joes" in 3... 2... 1...

<duck>

Chuck Brown

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Re: USGA Announces Rules Changes on Golf Club Grooves
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2008, 02:04:15 PM »
Right.  There is much to dislike about this, although I am a self-professed agnostic on the subject of grooves.

1.  This is bifurcation.  Bifurcation sucks.  Period.

2.  This just encourages the notion of penal rough as a serious element of golf course architecture.  That sucks, too.

3.  This might be a backhanded method of getting elite players to demand that the ball manufacturers give them ammunition that spins more.  A lot more.  And supposedly, that will be a self-governor on distance.  Are you still with me?  I mean, it would have been way too easy to just craft a sensible restriction on golf ball distance, wouldn't it?

4.  Will this help, or hurt, the cause of reform of golf ball testing specs by the USGA?  It won't help, I don't think.  It is a distraction, mostly, and gives an illusion of doing something.  It will make scoring harder, but will not protect what is best about classic golf course architecture.

One this will be great for; heated arguments on golf discussion boards.

Michael Whitaker

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Re: USGA Announces Rules Changes on Golf Club Grooves
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2008, 02:40:42 PM »
Chuck - Why do you have a problem with bifurcation? The vast majority of golfers do not play the same game as highly skilled amateurs and professionals... and they haven't for quite some time.

I think it is vastly superior to have rules that restrict the technical aberrations of the better player during competitions than to make the game more difficult for the average golfer by rolling back the ball or equipment. The high tech equipment and ball has not improved the average handicap of the average golfer one iota. It is only the highly skilled golfer who has benefited from the technical improvements.

Isn't it better to have restrictions during competitions rather than continue to force clubs to lengthen or trick-up their courses in an effort to combat a continuing technical assault?

As you implied, not allowing a golf club with super-sharp grooves to artifically spin a no-spin ball will probably force better players to use a ball that creates its own spin... which will bring the curveball back into play and reduce the amount of distance that a full shot will travel.

I think this is a brilliant move by the USGA!!!
« Last Edit: August 05, 2008, 02:45:01 PM by Michael Whitaker »
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

John Moore II

Re: USGA Announces Rules Changes on Golf Club Grooves
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2008, 02:42:50 PM »
At least the USGA is trying to do something with equipment, which recently seems rare for them. Either regulate is, like a real rules/regulatory agency, or just let anything go and be fine. But the half-assing they have been doing is not that great for anyone.

Garland Bayley

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Re: USGA Announces Rules Changes on Golf Club Grooves
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2008, 02:51:46 PM »
...
1.  This is bifurcation.  Bifurcation sucks.  Period.
...

I don't get it. Where is the bifurcation? The 2010 for the pros and the 2014 for the duffers?
That is just a pragmatic way of dealing with the differences in resources.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

JohnV

Re: USGA Announces Rules Changes on Golf Club Grooves
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2008, 02:53:53 PM »
Actually it is 2010 for the pros, 2014 for the top amateurs and 2024 or beyond for the rest of us hackers.  Of course, by 2024, we will either have bought new clubs or the grooves will be gone.

Jim_Kennedy

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Re: USGA Announces Rules Changes on Golf Club Grooves
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2008, 03:27:51 PM »
John,
Hopefully my grooves will be gone by 2024, I won't need to be backing anything up by then.  ;D
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Chuck Brown

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA Announces Rules Changes on Golf Club Grooves
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2008, 12:08:34 AM »
Chuck - Why do you have a problem with bifurcation? The vast majority of golfers do not play the same game as highly skilled amateurs and professionals... and they haven't for quite some time.

I think it is vastly superior to have rules that restrict the technical aberrations of the better player during competitions than to make the game more difficult for the average golfer by rolling back the ball or equipment. The high tech equipment and ball has not improved the average handicap of the average golfer one iota. It is only the highly skilled golfer who has benefited from the technical improvements.

Isn't it better to have restrictions during competitions rather than continue to force clubs to lengthen or trick-up their courses in an effort to combat a continuing technical assault?

As you implied, not allowing a golf club with super-sharp grooves to artifically spin a no-spin ball will probably force better players to use a ball that creates its own spin... which will bring the curveball back into play and reduce the amount of distance that a full shot will travel.

I think this is a brilliant move by the USGA!!!

Michael, I agree with you.  Particularly this part: "The high tech equipment and ball has not improved the average handicap of the average golfer one iota. It is only the highly skilled golfer who has benefited from the technical improvements."

Amen.

The Pro V era hasn't changed the game for recreational players.  It has drastically changed the game for elite players.  That is precisely why I say recreational players have nothing to fear from a ball rollback, or at least a change that takes multilayer urethane balls out of the hands of the elites.  Hell, most recreational players don't even buy premium urethane balls.  If they ever play with a Pro V, it is one they found in the bushes on the 16th hole yesterday...

Most recreational players ought to rejoice at the prospect that tour players might be brought back closer to the mortal population.

Mike Nuzzo

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Re: USGA Announces Rules Changes on Golf Club Grooves
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2008, 12:21:02 AM »
I remember when I worked for the USGA they tried to carpet all of Far Hills so it was easier on the committees feet... then someone suggested shoes as being far more practical.

And apparently they carpeted the town anyway....

Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Jim Nugent

Re: USGA Announces Rules Changes on Golf Club Grooves
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2008, 01:44:12 AM »
A couple of pro's say this may solve the high-tech/distance problem.  For the reason a few of you have brought up.  Without the grooves, they must use a softer ball.  Softer ball doesn't go as far.  Golf courses must be set up shorter.  Also with less rough, giving more options for recovery shots and creativity, instead of slash back to the fairway.   

Does this make sense? 

TEPaul

Re: USGA Announces Rules Changes on Golf Club Grooves
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2008, 06:18:01 AM »
"A couple of pro's say this may solve the high-tech/distance problem.  For the reason a few of you have brought up.  Without the grooves, they must use a softer ball.  Softer ball doesn't go as far.  Golf courses must be set up shorter.  Also with less rough, giving more options for recovery shots and creativity, instead of slash back to the fairway.   
Does this make sense?" 


JimN:

It makes sense to me, at least in theory. The back pages of this site are filled with threads on this.

With less spin out of rough with the groove change rules a higher spin rate ball should be easier to control on approach shots. A higher spin rate ball with a high mph swing speed will probably also create a different trajectory which will result in some lost of carry distance. This is generally the realm of the elite player.

For the less good player with a lower swing speed, physics seems to indicate a higher spin rate ball may actually result in more lift and more carry distance.

In theory, anyway, it seems there may be a win/win scenario in here with the distance question.

My suggestion, for years now is that the R&A/USGA consider a sixth regulation on golf balls (there are five regulations now) that requires a limitation on the MINIMUM amount of spin rate for a conforming golf ball.

Richard Hetzel

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Re: USGA Announces Rules Changes on Golf Club Grooves
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2008, 08:19:30 AM »
I am sure this will open up a can of worms, BUT, why not institute a "Tournament Only" ball just for the professionals on all of the tour events?

Best Played So Far This Season:
Crystal Downs CC (MI), The Bridge (NY), Canterbury GC (OH), Lakota Links (CO), Montauk Downs (NY), Sedge Valley (WI)

jeffwarne

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Re: USGA Announces Rules Changes on Golf Club Grooves
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2008, 08:36:32 AM »
I am sure this will open up a can of worms, BUT, why not institute a "Tournament Only" ball just for the professionals on all of the tour events?



Rich,
If it took 3 years to study grooves (and bascically do nothing for many years) 2010,2014, 2024 etc.
.....maybe after a 10 year study the USGA might figure out the ball goes a bit farther than it did 10 years ago....
but then they'd grandafther those balls until 2058.
a TOUR ball would solve most problems-just like every other pro league.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Jim Nugent

Re: USGA Announces Rules Changes on Golf Club Grooves
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2008, 08:51:07 AM »
I've heard that Tiger already uses a softer ball, that spins more.  So perhaps the new rule will affect him less than most other pro's. 

In other words, the new rule may make him even better relative to the rest of the pack. 

John Moore II

Re: USGA Announces Rules Changes on Golf Club Grooves
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2008, 09:03:22 AM »
I don't think Tiger's ball spins that much more than anyone else's. Yes, I have read that he plays a 'high' spin ball, but from that I understand, he just plays a One Platinum (not exactly, but more or less) as opposed to a Black. Its not like he's playing a Tour Balata and the other guys are playing NXT's. This change in grooves will not, IMHO, cause the return of the wound golf ball though, no way. You could go back to V grooves and not cause those to return.

Steve Kline

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Re: USGA Announces Rules Changes on Golf Club Grooves
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2008, 09:10:46 AM »
For me, the One Platinum spins a whole lot more than the Pro V1x . My wedges, which have lost most of their grooves over the last 8 years of heavy use, spin the One Platinum back on every shot whereas the Pro V1x tends to just sit on the greens. When I play firmer courses I have hard a time getting the Pro V1x to stop the way I want it to, especially out of rough.

I think this groove thing is a good idea - given the reasoning some have espoused of switching to higher spin balls. Even by 2014 top amateurs will have had to buy new clubs anyway.

Jim Sweeney

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Re: USGA Announces Rules Changes on Golf Club Grooves
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2008, 09:14:32 AM »
JM and JKM:

If you believe the advertising, Tiger now plays the exact same Nike Platinum ball you can buy at your favorite golf shop. If you believe.....

Chuck:

You are right, by definition this is bifurcation. It is also standard operating proceedure when equipment rules change, and it makes sense if you stop to think about it. I do not recall the grandfathering process ever being a three stage deal in the past. However, again, it makes sense unless you intend that every golfer (who wants to play by the rules) go out and spend a "G" or so on a new set of irons (or do you think the manufactureres would, in good conscience, not take advantage of this new pricing opportunity?)

TP, et al:

I agree in theory that this rules change may have an ancillary effect on the ball, also. We can only wait and see. Any change in GCA will be decades down the road, though.

"Hope and fear, hope and Fear, that's what people see when they play golf. Not me. I only see happiness."

" Two things I beleive in: good shoes and a good car. Alligator shoes and a Cadillac."

Moe Norman

cary lichtenstein

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Re: USGA Announces Rules Changes on Golf Club Grooves
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2008, 09:36:49 AM »
By 2024 I will be gone, buried with dirt, grass and flowers. Anyone want my old clubs? ;D
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Jerry Kluger

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Re: USGA Announces Rules Changes on Golf Club Grooves
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2008, 09:51:01 AM »
I am a bit confused and perplexed - as I watch the top golfers what amazes me is how far they hit the ball not what they are able to do with their second shots out of the rough. If they were 30 yards back and were hitting their irons  about 10 yards shorter then I could see a real difference.  My limited observations do not lead me to conclude that they are hitting beautiful 7 irons out of thick rough exactly pin high and stopping.  The only upside I could see is if the result is that the rough will not be as deep and more balls will wind up in fairway bunkers.

If they don't want to mess with the ball how about steel shafts and wooden heads on their drivers. 

Mike_Cirba

Re: USGA Announces Rules Changes on Golf Club Grooves
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2008, 09:52:13 AM »
TL TL

Brent Hutto

Re: USGA Announces Rules Changes on Golf Club Grooves
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2008, 10:31:08 AM »
If they want to effect the game that the Tour players play they're going to have to legislate less clubhead speed. Otherwise they're just jerking off if they think nibbling around on groove specifications is going to keep the elite players from hitting the ball as far as humanly possible, finding it, and swinging hard again.

Mike Benham

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Re: USGA Announces Rules Changes on Golf Club Grooves
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2008, 12:16:05 PM »
Actually it is 2010 for the pros, 2014 for the top amateurs and 2024 or beyond for the rest of us hackers.  Of course, by 2024, we will either have bought new clubs or the grooves will be gone.


So a collegiate player who attempts to qualify for the US Open in 2010 will have to play clubs with the new groove definition, while he can play his old square grooved clubs for the NCAA season ...
"... and I liked the guy ..."

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