What Will Be The Next Ballyneal or Pacific Dunes

[Garland Bayley]

...
Our next course of that quality is likely to be a private one, unfortunately.  But we're also talking to someone about a VERY good site in an unlikely US location that would be a true public course, and it's the kind of thing that could come together really quickly.

Let see, Boise is a booming area, and there are some sand dunes not far from there.
Also, Moses Lake is/was? slated to be the site for manufacturing the 787, and there are some sand dunes south of town.

[Dan_Callahan]

With millions of possibilities it seems pretty futile to guess. But for a piece of great land that you wouldn't expect to be developed into a golf course, I've got to go with Cape Cod. Almost unlimited dunes, incredible views, and a huge summer population that would keep a good public course consistently booked. Plus, many Cape courses stay open year-round. However, with the incredibly steep cost of land and difficult environmental and zoning restrictions, a 500-acre Tom Doak layout on the water and dunes would seem to be wishful thinking.

[Sean Leary]

With millions of possibilities it seems pretty futile to guess. But for a piece of great land that you wouldn't expect to be developed into a golf course, I've got to go with Cape Cod. Almost unlimited dunes, incredible views, and a huge summer population that would keep a good public course consistently booked. Plus, many Cape courses stay open year-round. However, with the incredibly steep cost of land and difficult environmental and zoning restrictions, a 500-acre Tom Doak layout on the water and dunes would seem to be wishful thinking.

Dan,
A friend of mines father in law tried to build a golf course (Fazio, I believe) on the Cape and never got off the ground due to the environmental issues.

[Kalen Braley]

There is miles and miles of epic looking dunes-ish seaside terrain along the entire Western Coastline in the US.  But I doubt anything new will ever be allowed to be built there.  Even Bandon Resort is on top of the cliffs and not at sea level...well at least not yet!!! 

I would suspect remote inland sites will continue to dominate the best new categories....

[Garland Bayley]

There is miles and miles of epic looking dunes-ish seaside terrain along the entire Western Coastline in the US.  ...

I have driven CH#1 from San Luis Obispo to its northern end. I have driven US101 from San Luis Obispo to LA, and from Eureka CA to its northern end. Other than protected US Rec area, and US Forest area, I don't recall seeing these miles and miles of epic looking dunes.

[Kalen Braley]

There is miles and miles of epic looking dunes-ish seaside terrain along the entire Western Coastline in the US.  ...

I have driven CH#1 from San Luis Obispo to its northern end. I have driven US101 from San Luis Obispo to LA, and from Eureka CA to its northern end. Other than protected US Rec area, and US Forest area, I don't recall seeing these miles and miles of epic looking dunes.

Perhaps you weren't looking in the right spots.  I can think of several spots where I saw them.  Mostly on Hwy 1 in Cali, but also some great spots along 101 in Oregon as well.

[Greg Tallman]

Señor Doak,

Might I have the inside track at guessing the general area if not narrowing it to 3 sites?

[mike_beene]

Sounds like Detroit, New Orleans or El Paso.

[Ronald Montesano]

In my view, the next Pac Dunes is a five-pack in western New York.  Long cursed with a munis-only situation, five courses were completed and opened between 2004 and 2008.  Arrowhead, Buffalo Tournament Club, Diamond Hawk, Harvest Hill and Links at Ivy Ridge increased the viable exposure of better-than-average golf to Buffalo-area golfers.  Glen Oak in Amherst could be considered a sixth as, faced with the addition of new courses in its 'hood, chose to dredge its lakes and add many aesthetic upgrades to an already-decent golf course.  When the Seneca Nation's RTJ2 course in Lewiston (north of Niagara Falls) opens in a few years, we will have seven newbies.  My guess is that Hickory Stick (the Nation course) will be our area's Ballyneal, with green fees out of range of the area golfer.

As such, the one hinted at by Doak will not be along the shores of Lake Erie in western New York, nor will it be along the shores of Lake Ontario, unless he is taking over for Nicklaus Design at a north-central New York project.

[Garland Bayley]

...
Our next course of that quality is likely to be a private one, unfortunately.  But we're also talking to someone about a VERY good site in an unlikely US location that would be a true public course, and it's the kind of thing that could come together really quickly.

Let see, Boise is a booming area, and there are some sand dunes not far from there.
Also, Moses Lake is/was? slated to be the site for manufacturing the 787, and there are some sand dunes south of town.

Pat Brockwell is inquiring about irrigation systems for the new 18 he will be doing, presumably at Black Mesa. Tom Doak has long been rumored to be on tap for a course at Black Mesa.
Matt Ward would have you think that Black Mesa has the best grounds for golf in the US.
Is Tom hinting that his Black Mesa course will "come together really quickly"?

There Pat, how's that for on topic?
 

[RJ_Daley]

Well, if the next BallyNeal is already built and is Rock Creek, being private and very laid upon the land in a remote location, then we have to 'project' and speculate as to what will be also a private, and remote, and laid upon the land.  Should that be limitted to US or anywhere in the world?

As to the next Bandon Dunes, I'm going with the public intention of one of the courses at Priaire Club (even though I haven't personally seen the new permutation - only Gil's routing/siting).  The early possibility that even the private course will be open to properly directed public requests seems promising.  So, "if" they hit a homerun, then you will get to see the next BallyNeal and Bandon all in one place.

I wouldn't discount Chambers Bay either as the next Bandon in the nature of a great public course, with a big future as it matures, and as it gains cache over time. But, that also is already a couple years old.

It would be great for golf if another very low priced, minimalist cult course like Wild Horse would be built in another part of the country, and built by one of the lesser known golf course archie/designers.  It has been 10 years since the little project in Gothenburg, and it would be great for golf if a similar community project (intra state share offering or some such community funded effort) would spring forth.

As for Doak's teaser, I'm guessing it will be........on less than 300 acres, near or on water, not minimalist, yet not mega dirt mover, and somewhat sandbased but not coastal sand dunes nor links.  In some ways it will be considered the by-product of a "green" sort of enterprise.  It will be a hybrid!!!   

[Ronald Montesano]

I'm going to toss a 27-hole complex in there, being Bay Harbor in Petoskey, Michigan.  It's an Arthur Hills/Stephen Kircher design and I'm going to say that the Links and the Quarry are as enjoyable (even from the tips, which don't tip out at much more than 6600) an 18 as I've had since my awakening.  It is ten years old this year, so I guess it doesn't qualify as a "next" of anything, unless you've not yet played it.

[RJ_Daley]

...I guess it doesn't qualify as a "next" of anything...

No offense Ronald, but I reckon that is the 'frank commentary' about GCA that introduces this site...and I'd agree with that small part of your post. 

[Steve_ Shaffer]

From what I've seen here, Lester George's Ballyhack near Roanoke, VA is a contender in the private non-ocean/water front category.

[Wade Whitehead]

From what I've seen here, Lester George's Ballyhack near Roanoke, VA is a contender in the private non-ocean/water front category.

I was just at Ballyhack this week.  It is going to be truly spectacular.  I'm not sure another combination of the terrain type, architecture, and attention to detail exists anywhere.

WW

[Andy Troeger]

...
Our next course of that quality is likely to be a private one, unfortunately.  But we're also talking to someone about a VERY good site in an unlikely US location that would be a true public course, and it's the kind of thing that could come together really quickly.

Pat Brockwell is inquiring about irrigation systems for the new 18 he will be doing, presumably at Black Mesa. Tom Doak has long been rumored to be on tap for a course at Black Mesa.
Matt Ward would have you think that Black Mesa has the best grounds for golf in the US.
Is Tom hinting that his Black Mesa course will "come together really quickly"?

That was my hope when I read the original post, having at least had a glance at the site it would seem to have a lot of potential.

[Pat Brockwell]

Presumptuous, as usual, Garland. .  To design a system for a Doak layout I've heard you want it to look like bad irrigation design, brown spots and rough edges.