[Kevin_Reilly]

Did anyone reach #16 on the OC Lake Course at the US Am last summer?

In qualifying, John Hurley had 281 to the green and put his 3 wood just about pin high in the rough to the right of the green.

He followed that with a driver - 8 iron approach to the 17th.  His 8 iron was from 171, uphill (of course).

[mike_beene]

11th at The Old Course.

[DMoriarty]

While it is no longer called a par 5 (and while I have never played it)  I'd say that the road hole ought to qualify.   

At one point it was apparently considered nearly impossible to carry the hotel and shorten the hole, but times changed and this strategic element became an integral part of the hole and remains so today. 

[JESII]

It's really interesting to me that the NCGA used to hold their Nor. Cal. Championsip at Spyglass and always played from the back of the back tees. The pros in the Crosby never played all the way back. The course record for the first two or three years after the opening was Forrest Fezler' score of two under par 70.

Bob - I'm not sure what I'm asking, but I'm asking if you can get into this a little more. Are you suggesting that the set-up for the pros was more interesting and even challenging that it was for the Nor Cal?

Peter

Peter,

Hopefully Bob will chime in, but in the meantime I would guess what he meant was that the set-up for the pros was easier than for the amateurs and still took several years to yield a score in the 60's so the difficulty was not an issue.

I would guess the implication is that if you are willing to sacrifice a bit of length (in course set-up), you just might find some added interest.

Personally, I made a 7 on my one competitive effort on that hole so I don't think 15 yards forward on the tee would have helped...

[Peter Pallotta]

Thanks, JES.

It makes me wonder if almost all Par 5s would "stand the text of time" if they were only given a chance... 

The choices/challenges presented would change over time, but maybe only in kind and not in degree

Peter   

[Jon Spaulding]

#8 Crystal Downs, for a number of reasons.

[John Kirk]

#8 Crystal Downs, for a number of reasons.

...and its kid sister, #17 at Prairie Dunes

[Jon Spaulding]

#8 Crystal Downs, for a number of reasons.

...and its kid sister, #17 at Prairie Dunes

I've not been there as of yet but #17 PD looks excellent on the monitor.

I would also nominate #4 Victoria Club (Behr) for standing up well. The decision required on the 2nd shot is inspiring.

[John Foley]

#13 Oak Hill East.

It gave the Senior tour players fits. miss the fw with your layup and par is history. Small green with a significant slope.

AS far as I knw never been reached in two. Creek crosses # approx 300 yards off the champ tee. At the PGA in 2004 Hank Keuhne attempted to fly the creek, but failed.

[Bill_McBride]

11th at The Old Course.

 

If that's the case I made a double bogey 7 there in June.    If you've never been up against the wall of the Struie bunker, I advise against it.

[Chris Simonson]

#15 at Pine Valley is longer than #7.  I do know someone who reached #15 in 2.  That is the best par 5 I've every played.

[John Mayhugh]

While I liked the 17th at Prairie Dunes a lot, the first hole that came to mind was the fifth at Holston Hills.  It's about 550 from the regular tees and 615 from the tips.  There is OB right, but the fairway is huge.  There are two sets of cross bunkers that you have to avoid as well as another fairway bunker on the left side.  The result is you have to think about both line and distance on all of your shots and it's very possible to not get to the green in regulation.  I once played in a foursome that had I think had 9 sand shots on that hole, with no individual repeats from the same bunker. 

[Phil Benedict]

This may not be a popular choice but the 18th at Torrey Pines was terrific in the Open, even when played with the tees way up.  Had to hit the fairway to go for the green, which strikes me as a fair requirement.  All Rocco needed to do was birdie it on either Sunday or Monday and he'd be champion, while Tiger had to birdie it both days in very different manners.  The hole was real difference maker, which must reflect the design/setup.

I think what makes the hole is that stupid looking pond, which forces guys who miss the fairway to lay up to a full shot.  Take the pond away and they might try to knock their second shots closer to the green from the fairway bunker or rough, leaving a chip or bunker shot instead of a full wedge.  The pond makes for more scoring dispersion.

[JSlonis]

#7 at PV has anyone ever hit it in 2??

I can't recall if it was ever hit in two and I can't imagine it ever being hit in two from the new tee.  Both par 5's at PV are now over 600 yards from the back tees.

The 7th hole gets a lot of talk because of Hell's Half Acre, but I think #15 is a much more difficult hole than #7.  In my view, day in and day out, #15 is the toughest par 5 I've ever played.

I played Baltusrol last week and I can't even begin to imagine reaching that 17th green in two.  Maybe down-gale with rock hard fairways like you'd find in a major, but still two huge shots. Both the two finishing holes were downwind, but the fairways were soft from a heavy rain a couple of days prior.  We couldn't get it anywhere close to #17 in two but #18 was easily reachable with a long iron. I think Tiger hit it just over the 17th green with a 2 iron during the last PGA(landed on and bounced over).  The two iron was from over 270 yards uphill.  That is just stupid LONG.

[wsmorrison]

Jamie,

What do you think of the 9th at Rolling Green in terms of difficulty and length of par 5s?  I don't think anyone can reach the green in two given the stance and uphill nature of the second shot.  I also think it is a good idea to move that tee back about 20 more yards to return the right fairway bunker into play off the tee.  The 9th tee and 12th tee should meld back at the property line into a sort of Vee-shape.

[mark chalfant]

Wayne,  good call !


8 and 9 at RG  are quite a pair. I love the setting, topography and challenge that pervades the long ninth at Rolling  Green.

[mark chalfant]

Im pretty sure the following have all been reached in two, but I admire the
designs of

Fox Chapel     #18
CC of  Buffalo  #13
Salem   #15

Whippoorwill  #6
Wee  Burn    #6

[wsmorrison]

Mark,

The 9th at Rolling Green is even better now that the trees have been taken out on either side of the 9th fairway.  What a view of the great short 12th you have from the 9th fairway that was all but hidden before. 

For the 8th to really be great, the awful bunkering (look and location) needs to be restored.  The left greenside bunker needs to come forward and pinch the opening a bit.  The right bunker should either be removed (it did not exist at first) or if kept, reoriented so that it is more perpendicular to the line of play.

[JSlonis]

Jamie,

What do you think of the 9th at Rolling Green in terms of difficulty and length of par 5s?  I don't think anyone can reach the green in two given the stance and uphill nature of the second shot.  I also think it is a good idea to move that tee back about 20 more yards to return the right fairway bunker into play off the tee.  The 9th tee and 12th tee should meld back at the property line into a sort of Vee-shape.

I forgot about that hole.  Good call.  Definitely one of the longest and toughest in the Philly region.

[Ed Oden]

I'll take the Trevino approach and nominate #11 at Shinnecock. 

[Dan Boerger]

A long but wonderful par 5 often overlooked in the golf rich Philadelphia area is the 4th hole at North Hills. It can play 616 yards long and is somewhat uphill. A slight dogleg right off the tee will force longer hitters to challenge inside bunkers and OB guards the left fairway. Much like 15 a Pine Valley, the hole narrows as you approach it. There is a long and narrow green with trouble on either side. Take your par and walk quickly to the next hole!

[TEPaul]

While I realize some golfers and some architects believe a par 5 hole should be one that can only be reached in three shots (not two) I sure don't look at par 5s that way. I think a "par 5" hole is simply one where good standard play generally results in the hole being played in five shots.

With that in mind some of the par 5s I'm aware of that have seemed to stand the test of time are PV's #7 and #15 and very much Oakmont's #12 because of the wonderful design of its fall-away green.

Another par 5 that could continue to stand the test of time for very good players is NGLA's #18. But to do that successfully the club would need to move Macdonald's Gate and the driveway and put a new tee back there about 50-60 yards. I've been suggesting the club do that for years now but it's constantly opposed by this dolt by the name of Patrick Mucci.

[JESII]

A long but wonderful par 5 often overlooked in the golf rich Philadelphia area is the 4th hole at North Hills. It can play 616 yards long and is somewhat uphill. A slight dogleg right off the tee will force longer hitters to challenge inside bunkers and OB guards the left fairway. Much like 15 a Pine Valley, the hole narrows as you approach it. There is a long and narrow green with trouble on either side. Take your par and walk quickly to the next hole!

Interesting you nominate #4 at North Hills, Dan. I just played about my 10th round there and after hitting my 4th shot (out of the short right bunker) over Station Ave. I realized that my scoring average on that hole is about 7.5...I would have been hard pressed to keep it in single digits this time, I have one other time with two lay-up shots out of bounds so that is a likely 10 and a whole bunch of 6's...

[Phil Benedict]

Im pretty sure the following have all been reached in two, but I admire the
designs of

Fox Chapel     #18
CC of  Buffalo  #13
Salem   #15

Whippoorwill  #6
Wee  Burn    #6

Mark,

Played Fox Chapel a couple of years ago (loved it).  The 18th is a great hole; however, my host told me some kid who had played the US Amateur at Oakmont reached it with a drive and a 7-iron.  535-yards as I recall.  Yikes!  I had 250 on my second shot but was in the rough.  Had to lay up and was definitely worried about the creek if I mishit the second shot.

I've played Whippoorwill quite a bit, although not recently.  The 6th is kind of a weird hole from the back tee.  A really long hitter can reach the second level of the fairway.  Unfortunately, I'm not quite long enough so a driver ends up on the hill separating the top fairway from the second tier, which is nowhere to be, so it becomes a layup hole off the tee and possibly on the second as well in order to avoid to hill separating tier 2 and tier 3 of the fairway.  Interesting use of rolling topo, isn't it?

[Mike_Cirba]

Did anyone yet mention 8 at Crystal Downs or 17 at Prairie Dunes?

Two reasonably similar holes that could yield either eagle or 13 or so.

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