[Mike Sweeney]

Country Western Singer Kinky Friedman when he was running for Governor of Texas:  "I'm too young for Medicare and too old for women to care."

Terry,

There has to be more to this story. If the internet police will allow me one mulligan for stereotyping - A Jewish Country Western singer named Kinky running for Texas Governor ??

[RJ_Daley]

Mr. Cronan's last post is why there are still plenty of great and inspirational threads left to be read on GCA.com.  

Are there any of us who couldn't take the example of using a little humility and restraint, along with reflection on what we might have said, when we enthusiasitically yet sometimes carelessly get caught up in a debate, disagreement, and cross a line of decorum.  To have the character to apologize is a great trait.  

As we all know from watching news and world figures in politics and such, many people don't have those traits.  

But, don't we all enjoy a witty comeback or observation as well.  When it is directed at a person, I don't think it is all that bad IF wit and good natured disagreement are tempered with underlying respect.   Sometimes it goes too far, and that is what a sincere apology serves to bring things back into balance...

[Melvyn Morrow]

JK

It seems you don’t understand. Let me made it clear

I never made a comment against Perry – I just said he might be saving himself for St Andrews. I also said that like some others that he MAY be looking at the money yet to win the Open would open the money tap, at the end of the sentence I finished with “who knows”.  At no time did I show disgust for Perry or his position, read the full post and yes others certainly made their displeasure felt BUT IT WAS NOT ME – That’s my Point - so I did not deserve to be called a Moron. I am not guilty of any attach on Perry.

Richard C

The best course in the world is open to debate, but ask most of those taken part in The Open if it is the Championship they most want to win and why.
If you have the opportunity asked past Open Champions for their view, then if you can tell me I am wrong.
 

[John Burzynski]

As a relative newcomer, I think that the only real fault with GCA.com (and it is a fault of every forum message board I have ever seen) is that people will type to others what they would never say to a person's face, or even behind their back to others.

Message boards are highly impersonal when compared to face-to-face interaction, and it is sometimes hard to relate to another poster as being an actual human being that has feelings and such just as the rest of us.  It is the nature of the beast with all forums.  It is also easy to misinterpret written words without the benefit of body language, facial emotions, voice inflections and all of the rest of the body language that go into a face to face conversation between two people.

Sometimes, here as on all forums, we take ourselves too seriously.  Golf course architecture is a relatively narrow field of interest within golf and for sure within human interests, and then issues like bunkering and such are even more narrow topics.  Certainly if one has an interest in a particular course or aspect of GCA, they might feel strongly about it, but most others just don't have the passion on a narrow topic, thus tempers flare.

[Melvyn Morrow]

David

Thank you and sorry to doubt your sincere apology, accepted
with my sincere thanks, hope you liked the info I sent.

[Kalen Braley]

Melyvn,

A very thoughtful and well written post.  To answer your question I would answer yes, but only because people pretty much say whatever they want to on this forum.  For the most part there isn't much moderation and as best as I can tell, very few people ever get booted for boorish or otherwise bad  behavoir.  In other sites I've been to a moderator puts the kibosh on these sorts of things a lot sooner.

All that being said, if one were to ask a similar question:  Is GCA.com worth it?  I would say yes.  Its worth it to put up with the OT, which I will admit I'm not a stranger to, to find the diamonds in the rough.

I think the best example is the Cobbs Creek thread.  What these guys are doing, what they've put out there, the research they've done, the inroads they've made....this is the essence of what this site is all about and can aspire to be full time.  Throw in great threads on course review, ODG discussion, heated arhcitecture debate, etc, etc, and I think this site is definitly worth it.

[Richard Choi]

One last thing.

Melvin, you go on this diatribe about how people are attacking you personally for stating an opinion. But when I make a logical rebuttal, instead of debating me on the merits of my argument, you make a personal attack on me ("how old are you?").

Respect goes both ways. If you want some, you should show some.

And as to asking a former "champion", yes, you should go ask Tiger about which Major matters most to him. He has made it clear in numerous interviews that Masters is special. And he sacrificed rest of the year (including and opportunity to play at The Open) so that he can win the US Open.

If he absolutely valued The Open above all else, he would have skipped Masters and/or US Open and rested his knees so that he can compete this week. But he didn't.

So, the best golfer in the world/history thinks The Open is something to be skipped over others. So how could you really say that it is the most important?

[Brent Hutto]

Let's not forget that, as always, this happened on an off topic discussion.  No matter what anyone says the OT is a cancer that is killing the site.

I've always had some inclination to agree with your take on the OT threads. That inclination becomes stronger as time goes on although I'm not sure "cancer" or "killing" are apt. At any rate I think OT threads cause more than their share of trouble. Certainly more than they are worth.

[Garland Bayley]

Let's not forget that, as always, this happened on an off topic discussion.  No matter what anyone says the OT is a cancer that is killing the site.

I've always had some inclination to agree with your take on the OT threads. That inclination becomes stronger as time goes on although I'm not sure "cancer" or "killing" are apt. At any rate I think OT threads cause more than their share of trouble. Certainly more than they are worth.

OT threads as opposed to oh say .... Merion threads?

[tlavin]

Country Western Singer Kinky Friedman when he was running for Governor of Texas:  "I'm too young for Medicare and too old for women to care."

Terry,

There has to be more to this story. If the internet police will allow me one mulligan for stereotyping - A Jewish Country Western singer named Kinky running for Texas Governor ??

Kinky Friedman's most famous song was, "They Don't Make Jews Like Jesus Anymore".  Irreverent would be a pretty good word.  His run for governor turned out to be more than a lark, he wound up getting a bunch of votes and the media, of course, loved him.

[Ronald Montesano]

Richard...The Open was important because it was played at Torrey Pines, not because it was The Open.  The Open Open happened to fall after it and that was that.  I cannot guess as to whether Tiger would have skipped The Open for The Open Open if he had known that he could rehab the stress fracture in time to travel to The Open Open.

I agree that we should leave vendetta out of our posts.  Mr. Tom Doak disagreed with one of my posts, suggesting that he would abandon my opinion.  That was fun and educational.  I've not abandoned my original opinion, nor do I expect him to cave and capitulate and abandon his.  Our tiff was carried out without name-calling and other forms of abuse.  It is my belief that what Flemma wrote works best:  think before you send.

[Bill_McBride]

I go back to the old rule that works: "Don't say anything to anyone online that you wouldn't say to that person face to face in the grill after a round of golf."

After all, for 90% or more of us who frequent GCA.com, nothing we say has any true validity as we are not professionals in this field.   We may be knowledgeable, well traveled, experienced players but our opinions should not be expressed as facts.   Most of the ongoing battles on GCA.com result because one party thinks his/her opinion has more merit, for whatever reason, than somebody else's opinion.

I have made a lot of friends on this website, many followed by a physical round of golf or other visit, and hate to see any bitterness in what is generally civilized discourse.  If we followed the grill room rule, that can be avoided.

Melvyn, you have brought a new perspective to this group, and also added to the cheer of the Buda group even though you weren't there!  Thanks again.

[Bill_McBride]

Country Western Singer Kinky Friedman when he was running for Governor of Texas:  "I'm too young for Medicare and too old for women to care."

Terry,

There has to be more to this story. If the internet police will allow me one mulligan for stereotyping - A Jewish Country Western singer named Kinky running for Texas Governor ??

Kinky Friedman's most famous song was, "They Don't Make Jews Like Jesus Anymore".  Irreverent would be a pretty good word.  His run for governor turned out to be more than a lark, he wound up getting a bunch of votes and the media, of course, loved him.

And don't forget Kinky's post-feminist anthem, "Get your biscuits in the oven and your buns in bed."

[Brent Hutto]

The Merion issue is sui generis. Just an ugly bit of business all around.

[Ken Moum]

Country Western Singer Kinky Friedman when he was running for Governor of Texas:  "I'm too young for Medicare and too old for women to care."

Terry,

There has to be more to this story. If the internet police will allow me one mulligan for stereotyping - A Jewish Country Western singer named Kinky running for Texas Governor ??

It gets better, his band is called the Texas Jewboys.

He was recently in KS, and I got a poster of him presenting "The Willie" to Willie. (He's in the cigar business now, and the poster came with a purchase.)

His cigars are called The Governor, Kinkycristo, Willie, Texas Jewboy and Utopian.

http://www.kinkycigars.com/

K

[Brent Hutto]

Melvyn, you have brought a new perspective to this group, and also added to the cheer of the Buda group even though you weren't there!  Thanks again.

And don't forget the whisky.

[John Kavanaugh]

You will never learn anything if you only talk to intellectuals.  There are people from all over the world from all walks of life on this site...some of us talk different.  One thing we do all have in common..We love these kinds of threads where we get to talk about ourselves.

Has anyone besides me been confronted in real life by non members of the site about things they said on this board?  If you think you can post under your real name and remain hidden you are sadly mistaken.

[Jay Flemma]

One last thing.

Melvin, you go on this diatribe about how people are attacking you personally for stating an opinion. But when I make a logical rebuttal, instead of debating me on the merits of my argument, you make a personal attack on me ("how old are you?").

Respect goes both ways. If you want some, you should show some.

And as to asking a former "champion", yes, you should go ask Tiger about which Major matters most to him. He has made it clear in numerous interviews that Masters is special. And he sacrificed rest of the year (including and opportunity to play at The Open) so that he can win the US Open.

If he absolutely valued The Open above all else, he would have skipped Masters and/or US Open and rested his knees so that he can compete this week. But he didn't.

So, the best golfer in the world/history thinks The Open is something to be skipped over others. So how could you really say that it is the most important?

Richard, I don't think Tiger felt The Open was something to be skipped over the others.  I don't infer that from his conduct at all. 

I think to Tiger the rank and file tourneys are to be missed for the majors.  he wants to break jack's record come hell or high water.  He wouldn't intentionally skip the open, less so because its at birkdale, a course he knows and performs well at.  He was ESPECIALLY psyched for Our Open because it was at Torrey, which he owns.

[David Stamm]

Let's not forget that, as always, this happened on an off topic discussion.  No matter what anyone says the OT is a cancer that is killing the site.

Once again, JK reminds me that we don't disagree on as much as I thought.

[Kirk Gill]

Two quick points:

Kinky Friedman has also written a very funny series of mystery novels featuring himself as the case-solving protagonist. Good airplane reading, at the very least.

And am I the only one who LIKES the Merion threads?



And for what it's worth, Melvyn, to answer the question posted in the title of this thread......to me, yes.

[Peter Wagner]

Melvyn,

People post things on the internet that they would never say in face to face conversation.  IMO, there is an inherent problem in that posting is somewhere between thinking and speaking aloud.  Someone may be thinking "I hate Jewish Country singers" but they most likely would never say it out loud to a Texan politico but they might type it and press send.

To Kinky fans,
Check out some of Kinky Friedman's murder / humor novels!  He uses murder mystery as an excuse to hit the reader with one liners.  Great summer reading!  Try 'Meanwhile back at the ranch" or "Kill two birds and get stoned".  Kinky is sort of Hunter S. Thompson-ish but with a better sense of humor.

http://www.kinkyfriedman.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinky_Friedman
http://www.ldb.org/friedman.htm
http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/f/kinky-friedman/

- Peter

[Richard Choi]

Richard, I don't think Tiger felt The Open was something to be skipped over the others.  I don't infer that from his conduct at all. 

You don't have to infer anything at all. That is what he DID!

The fact is he played in US Open which directly caused him to miss The Open when the doctor's recommendation was to do otherwise.

You may say that that is only because it is Torrey. I would turn that around and say that that is only a factor in that Tiger felt this was an especially good opportunity to win the US Open and he was willing to sacrifice The Open and PGA to parlay that chance, and not necessarily because "he loves Torrey".

Actions speak louder than words, Tiger spoke volumes with his actions.

[Garland Bayley]

Richard, I don't think Tiger felt The Open was something to be skipped over the others.  I don't infer that from his conduct at all. 

You don't have to infer anything at all. That is what he DID!

The fact is he played in US Open which directly caused him to miss The Open when the doctor's recommendation was to do otherwise.

You may say that that is only because it is Torrey. I would turn that around and say that that is only a factor in that Tiger felt this was an especially good opportunity to win the US Open and he was willing to sacrifice The Open and PGA to parlay that chance, and not necessarily because "he loves Torrey".

Actions speak louder than words, Tiger spoke volumes with his actions.

So your position is that he should continue playing with a torn ACL so that he doesn't allow for any perceived preference for tournaments? I think most people react the way Tiger did. They get the fix done ASAP unless there is something in the immediate future that they feel they can make a slight delay for.

It seems your reasoning does not ring true for many of us here.

[Richard Choi]

So your position is that he should continue playing with a torn ACL so that he doesn't allow for any perceived preference for tournaments? I think most people react the way Tiger did. They get the fix done ASAP unless there is something in the immediate future that they feel they can make a slight delay for.

It seems your reasoning does not ring true for many of us here.

No, my position is that he had options and he chose the one that made sure that he played Masters and US Open.

Tiger's knee problem is a chronic thing. It is not like he just picked it up, it has been bothering him for awhile (as he has stated on his Website).

He had three options to treat his knee which needed an operation (and be out for several months).

1. Get the surgery off-season, skip the Masters but play all three other majors.

2. Get the surgery after Masters, skip US Open and possibly British, but play PGA

3. Get the surgery after Masters and US Open, skip British and PGA

If I consider The Open to be "the true champion" (or even PGA), I take the option 1.

If I consider US Open to be the most important, I take the option 1.

If I consider Masters to be the most important and others about the same, I take the option 2.

If I consider Masters to be the most important and US Open a close second, I take the option 3.

He chose the option 3.

[Garland Bayley]

My mistake Richard,

I don't follow Tiger as closely as you do. Since the torn ACL was announced after the US Open, I assumed it was torn between the Masters and the US Open. I'm amazed that he waited as long as he did for that one.

However, the stress fractures did appear between the Masters and the US Open. He chose to delay their healing until after the US Open. Since they were the most painful injury, his choice to deal with his problems immediately after the US Open and before The Open make perfect sense to me and I believe do not show a preference of one major over the other.

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