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John Burzynski

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Re: Ten Courses That Need to be Destroyed?
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2008, 08:16:34 AM »
Quote from: Dan_Callahan on July 15, 2008, 03:46:53 PM
Crappy courses that charge minimal greens fees have a place in golf, so I wouldn't make the decision to raze based simply on quality.


Yes, there is always a place for courses that might serve as good cheap places to get in a regular round of golf, conditions be damned, or courses that are in less than ideal shape / challenge but serve a market for beginners.  Remember, some people are on fixed or limited incomes, and a $10 round of golf (yes, that exists around here) might be all that can be afforded.  Low pricing is also ideal if you are taking your kids golfing, and the track doesn't have to be anything spectacular or lush to provide an afternoon of enjoyment.    Some of my best golfing days have been with my two youngest sons on a par 29 9 hole course around here...$8 adult, $4 kids, and a second nine costs me $4 and them $1.   

Rather than raze a course that is too expensive, why not just not patronize the course; either the prices will come down to reasonable levels or the course will be sold for real estate. 

Sad but true, I think that in some places we have a glut of golf courses, especially high cost daily fee courses.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2008, 08:27:07 AM by John Burzynski »
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Melvyn Morrow

Re: Ten Courses That Need to be Destroyed?
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2008, 10:44:31 AM »
Re: Ten Courses That Need to be Destroyed?


Now that is a very interesting idea, while you Guys are making up your list can I suggest that we start with all those courses that offer No Walking Golf an ultimatum. Offer Walking Facilities or you will be destroyed - better still modified for Walkers - I don’t like to see dead course, they should be busy with happy golfers (some walking & some carting). :) 8) :)

If they do not agree to change, post their address on the internet advertising built in refrigerators on every cart and that every week-end is party time – that should get the right crowd in every time – forget the maintenance bill think of the clean up bills with beer cans in bunkers, wheel tracks across the Greens, flags repositioned without their cups, plus the left over drunks still scattered over the course – sorry that that’s my picture of No Walking Courses ;) :D 8)

After you have listed the No Walking Courses will you have time to continue with your list of hates?  ???


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Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ten Courses That Need to be Destroyed?
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2008, 10:55:14 AM »
Melvyn, I think you're on to something.

An acceptble form of snobbery if ever there was.

Those who mention maintenance on local municipals as justification miss a rather large boat.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2008, 11:15:33 AM by Adam Clayman »
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Jed Peters

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ten Courses That Need to be Destroyed?
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2008, 12:12:14 PM »
Quote from: Bill Satterfield on July 16, 2008, 05:59:58 PM
Quote from: Jed Peters on July 16, 2008, 03:11:22 PM
The Falls at Lake Las Vegas.

From the very first hole, it's a contrived piece of shit.

Had no business being built--it's just crap.

Blow it up and build more strip houses.

What did you hate so much about The Falls?  12-14 I thought was a good stretch of holes.

12 is a lame par 5--uphill tee shot, 100 percent blind second with basically lose your ball hazards on either side through a narrow gap opening with a 7 iron, then a downhill lame wedge shot into a green.

13 is a weak par 4--hit from god knows where top of a cliff to a landing area that you have to be far left along the rocks to have a good angle, then a green that is in a weird area set against LITERALLY a huge rock cliff on the right.

14 is a go-for it downhill 4 par that is super easy, should be a par 3, with houses all along the left (now).

Those are my least favorite designed holes. Place shoulda stayed a big horn sheep refuge.
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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ten Courses That Need to be Destroyed?
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2008, 12:30:51 PM »
"Augusta National GC....because I'm not allowed to become a member"

Your truly,

Martha Burke
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Melvyn Morrow

Re: Ten Courses That Need to be Destroyed?
« Reply #30 on: July 17, 2008, 12:42:37 PM »
Augusta National GC....because I'm not allowed to become a member"

So there is justice in the world after all ;) :o :o :o ;)

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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ten Courses That Need to be Destroyed?
« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2008, 01:00:11 PM »
"That cow pasture they call the The Old Course is the worst piece of mess I've ever played on.  And no I won't be showing up again this year"

Grumpily yours,

Scott Hoch



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John_Cullum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ten Courses That Need to be Destroyed?
« Reply #32 on: July 17, 2008, 01:15:53 PM »
I am inclined to be most critical of courses that spent alot of money at a good location and turned out a mediocre product. Ocean Forest comes to mind
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Melvyn Morrow

Re: Ten Courses That Need to be Destroyed?
« Reply #33 on: July 17, 2008, 01:18:47 PM »
We are going to have a party in St Andrews this year :D
The cart, high tech player will not be travelling to Scotland :) :D ;D
Break out the 25 year Old Single Malt, put on the kilts lads ??? :o :o ::)
Bring out the cows from hiding, they are safe from artificial aids  ??? :o ???
The Old Course has time to recovery now that grumpy Kalen gone  :P :P :P
After leaving the worst mess in the recorded history of TOC.  :-\ :'( :-[
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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ten Courses That Need to be Destroyed?
« Reply #34 on: July 17, 2008, 01:26:42 PM »
Melyvn,

While its true I won't be making it to Scotland this year, its not that I don't want to.  I was just making that last post on behalf of Hoch who has gone on record in calling TOC a cow pasture.

When i do finally make it to TOC, god and GCA'ers as my witness, I'll play it while wearing a kilt.  I'm secure with my manhood to wear a skirt and living in a cold weather environment has me trained well as playing golf in shorts when its 30 degrees outside don't bother me much!!
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PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ten Courses That Need to be Destroyed?
« Reply #35 on: July 17, 2008, 01:31:06 PM »
Quote from: Mike Leveille on July 15, 2008, 06:03:12 PM
I wish they would abandon the Cashen Course at Ballybunion for 10 years, let all memories of the current routing fade away and be covered in natural grasses, then take another shot at building a relief course that is simpler and more enjoyable (fewer long uphill walks between greens and tees, fewer target-type shots to small greens that are next to unplayable in windy conditions, etc.).  As that is unlikely to happen, just blow it up.

i would love to known the percentage of rounds at Ballybunion which are played on the Cashen
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199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Bruce Katona

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ten Courses That Need to be Destroyed?
« Reply #36 on: July 17, 2008, 03:03:38 PM »
Country Club of The Poconos.....let it go back to meadow !!
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Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ten Courses That Need to be Destroyed?
« Reply #37 on: July 17, 2008, 06:39:19 PM »
TPC @ Eagle Trace. Arthur Hills. Unplayable at any speed.
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DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ten Courses That Need to be Destroyed?
« Reply #38 on: July 17, 2008, 09:06:55 PM »
I used to think Cypress south of Los Angeles was the worst golf course ever built and should be blown off the map, but still felt kind of bad when it was destroyed.

1.   If I could have one course destroyed I'd pick Shadow Creek.  I don't care how good it is or whether or not it is an engineering marvel.  It is bad for golf.   It ushered in an area of decadent designs with no regard for the surrounds and it should be blown off the map as a symbol of the end of that era.  If that era ever ends. 

2.       Trump's Calfornia Course would be second. 

3-8.   My next six would be courses that claim they were designed by a professional golfer who had no involvement whatsoever in the process. 

9-10. The last two would be Glen Mills and Cobb's Creek, just to piss of TEPaul and Cirba.

11*   I wouldn't destroy TPC at Valencia but would embalm it and use it as a permanent exhibit of how not to build a golf course. 
 
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Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ten Courses That Need to be Destroyed?
« Reply #39 on: July 17, 2008, 09:12:02 PM »
Don't destroy any of them - especially the ones in SoCal.  Let the suckers play TPC Valencia and Tierra Rejada, because for every terrible golf course closed you will have hundreds of undiscerning golfers turned away and looking for new courses to play.  And invariably I will find most of them in front of me when I get to the second tee box.
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"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Philippe Binette

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ten Courses That Need to be Destroyed?
« Reply #40 on: July 17, 2008, 09:32:59 PM »
favorite story in golf architecture...

the rock in ontario...

they built the place..
faldo shows up as the designer on opening day and apparently goes like: hey wait a minute.. this thing doesn't work, that's bad...
the rock wins golf digest BEST NEW CANADIAN

the year after... they rebuilt the course because nobody like it
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Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ten Courses That Need to be Destroyed?
« Reply #41 on: July 17, 2008, 09:43:02 PM »
Quote from: Philippe Binette on July 17, 2008, 09:32:59 PM
favorite story in golf architecture...

the rock in ontario...

they built the place..
faldo shows up as the designer on opening day and apparently goes like: hey wait a minute.. this thing doesn't work, that's bad...
the rock wins golf digest BEST NEW CANADIAN

the year after... they rebuilt the course because nobody like it

The industry doesn't even know what bad golf is any more because it is blinded by money.

Joe
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" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Mike_Cirba

Re: Ten Courses That Need to be Destroyed?
« Reply #42 on: July 17, 2008, 09:45:11 PM »
Quote from: Bruce Katona on July 17, 2008, 03:03:38 PM
Country Club of The Poconos.....let it go back to meadow !!

Bruce,

Whoever is able to achieve such a lofty, worthwhile goal should be awarded a Nobel Prize. 
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Mike_Cirba

Re: Ten Courses That Need to be Destroyed?
« Reply #43 on: July 17, 2008, 09:49:31 PM »
Quote from: Joe Bausch on July 15, 2008, 06:35:49 PM


On a more serious note, in the Philadelphia area I would recommend the following two courses could use a serious nip and tuck:

1.  Linfield National
2.  White Clay Creek (an Arthur Hills track)

(back to sarcasm)

Dear Adam Clayman,

   Please add Shore Ga.... ahhh, never mind.

Sincerely,
Mike Cirba
-----------------
;)



Joe,

I would certainly second the motion to your two nominees.

I'd also add whatever they are calling the Rees Jones course (formerly Tattersall) in Chester County.

However, ShoreGate is next in line after Country Club of The Poconos at Big Ridge.

Whoever turns that back into beautiful forestland deserves a Nobel, as well.

Of course, that is likely not PC here on GCA with the recent Ron Fream IMO piece, but ShoreGate is the most overdone course I've ever played, and that's saying something.
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Cory Lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ten Courses That Need to be Destroyed?
« Reply #44 on: July 18, 2008, 07:30:05 AM »
Inniscrone and The Wetlands in MD
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tonyt

Re: Ten Courses That Need to be Destroyed?
« Reply #45 on: July 19, 2008, 06:24:21 PM »
Quote from: Matthew Mollica on July 17, 2008, 03:17:15 AM
We have a course in Australia called Eagle Ridge.
I was looking to see if a fellow Melbournian had beat me on here.

Gents, if you were a member at a 36 hole club with Eagle Ridge as one course and some other nominations here as the other, there may be a few combinations that would see you struggle to want to play more than 0-1 out of 10 at Eagle Ridge.
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