[Adam Clayman]

I suppose any Doak zero? How many are there of those?

Few come to mind, as I tend to give credit just for having the balls to put "it" out there.
Clearly, a major flaw for a fickle critic.

Any nominees?

[Scott_Burroughs]

Huck has one in his hometown.   

[Jeff_Brauer]

Somebody wrote a book called the worst golf courses in America. I recall Z Boaz in Ft. Worth was on the list, and should be for its name alone.  But, it serves its purpose.

[Bill Shamleffer]

I have played a couple of courses in my life that are not much more than a little grass (and a lot of dirt) with a few tees and greens placed in the most uninteresting manner possible.

However, the MOST disappointing high-end golf course I have ever played is Missouri Bluffs in St. Charles, MO.  This is a Fazio design that hosted a Nationwide Tour event for a couple years in the mid-90s.  Back then its weekend fee was $100.  It is a very uninspired design for the market it was intended.  If it had been a $40 course, I probably would have accepted the course as OK for that market and rate.  I am happy to be surprised by a good designed course at a low rate, but I do not enjoy a ho-hum course for a very high rate.

For a course sold as a Fazio designed "country club for the day" it is a waste of time.  I know some people prefer a nice area for food and drinks and a well-maintained course, but the scruffier Normandie offers much better golf course architecture.

I would expect that Missouri Bluffs may be about the same Doak rating as Hale Irwin's Quail Creek in one of the St. Louis County parks.  But Quail Creek costs 1/2 as much as Missouri Bluffs.  I assume Irwin took into account that a municipal course needs to be a bit cheaper to maintain, and needs to take into account a large variety of clientele.  Yet the course Fazio created at Missouri Bluffs is no more interesting to play even though it was to be designed at "country club standards".

Missouri Bluffs should be destroyed.  Then let a young architect design a 7,000 yard, well maintained homage to Foulis's Normandie.

[Dan_Callahan]

Crappy courses that charge minimal greens fees have a place in golf, so I wouldn't make the decision to raze based simply on quality.

Instead, I would wipe out courses that market themselves as being relatively high-end, price themselves at the top of the local market, get all sorts of photos that, because of good lighting and photoshop saturation, look like ANGC, and yet quickly reveal themselves, after a few holes, to be pretty sucky. In other words, it would be a public service to turn Gillette Ridge into a parking lot.

[Tom_Doak]

Destroying a "zero" is of little use ... the point with those is that nobody ever should have wasted the money and defaced the landscape to build them in the first place.  Generally, they were doomed from the start, so there's little chance of really fixing them.  But why should any course be destroyed?  Abandoned, if there's no market for them, or redeveloped, if there is a better use for the property, but not just destroyed.

[Sean_A]

Tom is right.  There is no need to destroy, but I can think of a few that should have a major overhaul as they are terribly underutilizing their sites.  First, The Glen at North Berwick.  Second, Hillside. 

Ciao

[Mike Leveille]

I wish they would abandon the Cashen Course at Ballybunion for 10 years, let all memories of the current routing fade away and be covered in natural grasses, then take another shot at building a relief course that is simpler and more enjoyable (fewer long uphill walks between greens and tees, fewer target-type shots to small greens that are next to unplayable in windy conditions, etc.).  As that is unlikely to happen, just blow it up.

[Adam Clayman]

As I intimated it's difficult to justify destruction, but with the diverse opinions this is the place to ask. Besides the other Ten thread kept asking for it.

[Tim Leahy]

Maybe the question needs to be modified: What course that you have seen or played would you not recommend to anyone or go back to under any circumstances and why?

[RJ_Daley]

I suppose we can all come up with some dog track near our home locations.  But, I don't think it would do any good to name them, because the rest of us never probably heard of them anyway. 

[Jim Tang]

I'll vote for Bolingbrook Golf Club in Bolingbrook, Illinois.  Arthur Hills design.  Links course built on former farmland.  It is just a BLAND layout.  Little elevation change, little variety in hole design.  Very few of the holes stand out in the memory bank once you've played them.

The clubhouse is the largest single clubhouse I've seen from the 170+ courses I've played.  It is monsterous, and probably stands out further because the surrounding land is so flat and open.

They typically charge right around $100 or so to play, which is probably twice what they should be charging.  I guess they have to pay for that clubhouse somehow.

I will say they have a really nice practice facility.  I would bet my good buddy and fellow GCA member, Jim Colton, would second my nomination.  

[Sean Leary]

The much maligned Furry Creek outside Vancouver. The views there are so incredible but it is so wasted on that course.

[Joe Bausch]

Dear Adam Clayman,

    I'll nominate Innis.... ah, nevermind.

Sincerely,
Jim Coleman
--------------------
 


On a more serious note, in the Philadelphia area I would recommend the following two courses could use a serious nip and tuck:

1.  Linfield National
2.  White Clay Creek (an Arthur Hills track)

(back to sarcasm)

Dear Adam Clayman,

   Please add Shore Ga.... ahhh, never mind.

Sincerely,
Mike Cirba
-----------------

[cary lichtenstein]

I wish they would abandon the Cashen Course at Ballybunion for 10 years, let all memories of the current routing fade away and be covered in natural grasses, then take another shot at building a relief course that is simpler and more enjoyable (fewer long uphill walks between greens and tees, fewer target-type shots to small greens that are next to unplayable in windy conditions, etc.).  As that is unlikely to happen, just blow it up.

Wow, we are really on different pages on this one. I loved it. I only played it once and my only complaint was it was dificult to walk and I guess tough to find your ball in the rough.

But the giant dunes, the biggest in my memory, dwarfed the players, I took alot of pictures and we looked like dots next to the size of the dunes.

I did think that 1 playing was enough however.

[Ronald Montesano]

Kelly Blake Moran,

Didn't know if I should call you "Ian Baker" like the texans used to call Ian Baker-Finch (he loved that american union of his first and last names) or "Kelly Blake" or just "KBM."

In any case, I was put off a bit by the perceived snobbery of some postings, but then I remembered, without yin, there is no yang.  My guess is that the original intent was to "call out" certain courses that charge or promise to much without delivering nor repenting.  Some jumped on the bandwagon, albeit a bit off-axle, and started cracking on courses that qualify neither as classic nor championship.  That's the snobbery and that's the ignorance (or forgetfulness) of the game's humble origins.

I'm pretty envious when contributors write "only played Pebble 8 times but..." or "I played to the left green one day, the right green the next, at Pine Valley and ..."  However, they open windows onto a world that I do not know, so I can forgive anyone a bit (or a bushel) of snobbery.

Ron M.

[Mike Leveille]

Cary:

I agree that the Cashen Course is nothing if not scenic, as it was built on a stunning piece of property.  That is part of my "beef" with the course - considering the property, its seems that there must have been such potential for a truly great course.

I see the WOW factor of the course, but for me, with small greens (many of which require a lofted approach, if my memory does not fail me), what I recall as relatively narrow fairways between the giant dunes, and thick rough that ate up golf balls, the course is simply not fun, especially in any sort of meaningful wind (which is obviously common on the coast of SW Ireland and should be taken into account when designing a course).   We had eight guys in our group at the Cashen Course, played in a two club wind (at most), and there was not a guy in our group who liked the course and several of us who truly hated it.

We played the Cashen Course almost ten years ago.  At that time, there did not appear to be any locals playing the Cashen, just us and a few other touring golfers.  I would be interested in whether any changes have been made over the years to "soften" the course and whether the locals have come to enjoy the course.

Mike       

[Jed Peters]

The Falls at Lake Las Vegas.

From the very first hole, it's a contrived piece of shit.

Had no business being built--it's just crap.

Blow it up and build more strip houses.

[Bill Satterfield]

The Falls at Lake Las Vegas.

From the very first hole, it's a contrived piece of shit.

Had no business being built--it's just crap.

Blow it up and build more strip houses.

What did you hate so much about The Falls?  12-14 I thought was a good stretch of holes.

[cary lichtenstein]

Cary:

I agree that the Cashen Course is nothing if not scenic, as it was built on a stunning piece of property.  That is part of my "beef" with the course - considering the property, its seems that there must have been such potential for a truly great course.

I see the WOW factor of the course, but for me, with small greens (many of which require a lofted approach, if my memory does not fail me), what I recall as relatively narrow fairways between the giant dunes, and thick rough that ate up golf balls, the course is simply not fun, especially in any sort of meaningful wind (which is obviously common on the coast of SW Ireland and should be taken into account when designing a course).   We had eight guys in our group at the Cashen Course, played in a two club wind (at most), and there was not a guy in our group who liked the course and several of us who truly hated it.

We played the Cashen Course almost ten years ago.  At that time, there did not appear to be any locals playing the Cashen, just us and a few other touring golfers.  I would be interested in whether any changes have been made over the years to "soften" the course and whether the locals have come to enjoy the course.

Mike       

I played it about 5 years ago, only once, and what you say is true about the rough eating golf balls, but that is a maintenance issue, not an architectual issue. They could certainly widen the fairways and lower the rough and the course would be more enjoyable and get more repeat play.

With the giant dunes, I'm not sure where else you'd put the fairways except between them???

[Jim Colton]

I'll vote for Bolingbrook Golf Club in Bolingbrook, Illinois.  Arthur Hills design.  Links course built on former farmland.  It is just a BLAND layout.  Little elevation change, little variety in hole design.  Very few of the holes stand out in the memory bank once you've played them.

The clubhouse is the largest single clubhouse I've seen from the 170+ courses I've played.  It is monsterous, and probably stands out further because the surrounding land is so flat and open.

They typically charge right around $100 or so to play, which is probably twice what they should be charging.  I guess they have to pay for that clubhouse somehow.

I will say they have a really nice practice facility.  I would bet my good buddy and fellow GCA member, Jim Colton, would second my nomination.  

The best thing about Bolingbrook is it mandatory cart policy, even though the course is dead flat.  Gotta pay for that monster clubhouse somehow.  Even their twilight rate is $70.

The best way to sum up my feelings about the course is this: I'd never, ever consider moving to Bolingbrook simply because that is the muni's golf course. 

[Jim_Coleman]

Joe:
   I am truly flattered.  I feel that I have now arrived - almost a Sally Field Oscar moment.  I must confess that I was about to go into my semi-monthly Inniscrone diatribe when, fortunately, I saw your post.  Imagine the humiliation.  I am considering announcing that, due to this vicious mockery, I will never again post on this cite.  However, I am unwilling to suffer the indignity of a new 25 page thread of hand wringing over why I hadn't made this move sooner.  So, I will be back.  Get used to it, you Hanse lovers.  And don't forget, I like Applebrook!

[Will MacEwen]

The much maligned Furry Creek outside Vancouver. The views there are so incredible but it is so wasted on that course.

I have friends who say The Rock in Ontario is worse. 

[David Stamm]

Ten is not enough.....

[Matthew Mollica]

We have a course in Australia called Eagle Ridge.

Easily the first course that came to mind when pondering destruction of a course.

In stark contract to what Tom says above, it has actually developed quite a cult following and makes a reasonable fist of it down on the Mornington Peninsula, by viture of the fact it's 'pretty' and is different to every other course down there. Just like art, music fashion and architecture, even the bad stuff has a fan or two
 
Yet anyone who possesses the slightest leaning towards architectural appreciation shakes their head in disbelief at Eagle Ridge.

MM

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