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Adam Sherer

  • Karma: +0/-0
10 courses that need to be "restored"
« on: July 13, 2008, 08:48:53 PM »
Nearly every course has had some level of modification, renovation, enhancement, etc..  Which courses (doesn't need to be 10 necessarily) need true restorations to remedy the years of "tinkering" and return to their original designs?

[EDIT] First nomination: ANGC
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"Spem successus alit"
 (success nourishes hope)
 
         - Ross clan motto

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 10 courses that need to be "restored"
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2008, 09:24:10 PM »
You would recommend the opening day Augusta National?
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Ryan Farrow

Re: 10 courses that need to be "restored"
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2008, 09:34:06 PM »
I'll second Augusta. Sorry, I just think Mack is a little better architect than everyone who has come after him at Augusta. I know you won't disagree. 


Nice thread by the way.
And I'll add Apache Stronghold.
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Jimmy Muratt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 10 courses that need to be "restored"
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2008, 09:35:30 PM »
Oak Hill East - especially the work done in the 70's to holes 5 & 6. 
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Phil_the_Author

Re: 10 courses that need to be "restored"
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2008, 09:53:07 PM »
The Old Course to 14-something...
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Adam_Messix

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 10 courses that need to be "restored"
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2008, 09:53:23 PM »
Timber Point
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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: 10 courses that need to be "restored"
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2008, 09:54:32 PM »
Cobbs Creek

Where have you been on this one?
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Chris_Clouser

Re: 10 courses that need to be "restored"
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2008, 10:05:11 PM »
Dornick Hills.
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David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 10 courses that need to be "restored"
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2008, 10:09:14 PM »
I would agree w/ Ryan, ANGC at the beginning.

Good call, Adam on Timberpoint.


A few others:

La Cumbre
Ojai
Bel Air
Lakeside

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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

J Sadowsky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 10 courses that need to be "restored"
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2008, 10:12:01 PM »
Lido Golf Club.

And yes, I know the new course is not on the exact same land as the old one.....
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mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 10 courses that need to be "restored"
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2008, 10:12:14 PM »
Chris,it seems to me Dornick Hills would be the perfect GCA course.It is just over an hour from DFW airport and south of the Arbuckle mountains so the winters are mostly playable.
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mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 10 courses that need to be "restored"
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2008, 10:13:38 PM »
Dont think you can get Lakeside back because of the mighty LA river.
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Ryan Farrow

Re: 10 courses that need to be "restored"
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2008, 10:19:41 PM »
Quote from: David Stamm on July 13, 2008, 10:09:14 PM
I would agree w/ Ryan, ANGC at the beginning.

Good call, Adam on Timberpoint.


A few others:

La Cumbre
Ojai
Bel Air
Lakeside



Whattta bout Riviera?


And of course the rest of those great Thomas courses that have been hacked away at over the years. I still can't believe how forgotten he is as one of the best architects ever, must be that east coast bias. Can we put all George Thomas golf courses at the top of this list?


Behr's ? Lakeside looked pretty great in Shackelford's book, not so much today. I'll give it to you.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2008, 10:47:02 PM by Ryan Farrow »
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M. Shea Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 10 courses that need to be "restored"
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2008, 10:40:20 PM »
First one that came to mind was Timber Point, but i'm not sure how possible it would be.

Southampton Golf Club, have heard there are plans with Brian Silva being made.

Bethpage Black to its original state.

Yale

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Thomas MacWood

Re: 10 courses that need to be "restored"
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2008, 10:43:10 PM »
Timber Point
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Phil_the_Author

Re: 10 courses that need to be "restored"
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2008, 10:48:33 PM »
Mike & Tom,

Regarding Timber Point. In the New York State archives I discovered a set of original blueprints for Timber Points with marginal notations indicating actual work and changes done in both pen and pencil on it.

The information is there for anyone interested to see in restoring what was originally done.
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Tim Nugent

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Re: 10 courses that need to be "restored"
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2008, 10:50:50 PM »
Pebble Beach
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Coasting is a downhill process

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 10 courses that need to be "restored"
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2008, 11:07:41 PM »
Quote from: David Stamm on July 13, 2008, 10:09:14 PM
I would agree w/ Ryan, ANGC at the beginning.

Good call, Adam on Timberpoint.


A few others:

La Cumbre
Ojai
Bel Air
Lakeside



David, if you're going to restore La Cumbre, you'd best figure out a way to airlift in a whole lot of dirt and shoring timbers, who know what all, to rebuild the landslide behind current #8 (old #16) green, where there was once a nice par 3 and now there is a gaping canyon that threatens to get a lot bigger!

I'll be out there in February, maybe we can play a round and you can get a look.

The first thing I would do at La Cumbre is blow up the alternate island green at #13.  The original is one of the finest par 3s in the world and now you have to look at "Guano Isle" while playing it.  I have absolutely no idea why they built it.  It wasn't there in the early 60's when I was on the UCSB golf team and La Cumbre was our outstanding home course.   That was in the days of no kikuyu as well..... :'(
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Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 10 courses that need to be "restored"
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2008, 11:18:12 PM »
Lots of the mentioned courses are pipe dreams, lets be realistic.  Pebble Beach, Lido, ANGC and Bethpage are absurd.

The obvious and realistic courses are,

Mackenzie's Sharp Park in Pacifica, CA

Donald Ross - George Wright in Boston

George Thomas 36 holes at Griffith Park in Los Angeles

Hugh Wilsons, Cobbs Creek in Philadelphia

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Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 10 courses that need to be "restored"
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2008, 11:20:54 PM »
Once again, I ask if anyone who has seen ANGC book by Sam Byrdy would think to restore it to opening day condition?  Frankly, since Mac had too few site visits, and was in an experimental stage of using fewer bunkers, and could be overruled by Jones at any time,  I think perhaps we can say ANGC in original form is NOT a good example of a Mac course to restore.
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Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Jim Nugent

Re: 10 courses that need to be "restored"
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2008, 12:18:18 AM »
Jeff, would you restore ANGC at all then, and if so, what would you do to it? 
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Ryan Farrow

Re: 10 courses that need to be "restored"
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2008, 12:23:43 AM »
Quote from: Jeff_Brauer on July 13, 2008, 11:20:54 PM
Once again, I ask if anyone who has seen ANGC book by Sam Byrdy would think to restore it to opening day condition?  Frankly, since Mac had too few site visits, and was in an experimental stage of using fewer bunkers, and could be overruled by Jones at any time,  I think perhaps we can say ANGC in original form is NOT a good example of a Mac course to restore.

Jeff, ABSOLUTELY!

It was a very unique course with a lot of quirky green shapes, mounds, ( that I'm sure Forrest Richardson would be proud of) and bunkers. Not to mention, the most impressive player/architect combo that will EVER design a golf course.

For me, that is the most important fact. The changes over the years have chopped away at something historic to satisfy the needs and demands of todays professional golfer. His has also, created something historic. So...
« Last Edit: July 14, 2008, 12:25:17 AM by Ryan Farrow »
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W.H. Cosgrove

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Re: 10 courses that need to be "restored"
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2008, 01:16:01 AM »
Indian Canyon, Spokane WA
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Kalen Braley

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Re: 10 courses that need to be "restored"
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2008, 09:44:04 AM »
Joel,

I find it odd you mention Sharp Park as "realistic".  With the sea wall in the way of a few holes I wouldn't put this in the realistic category.

Also was curious about WH's mention of Indian Canyon....what was there before as compared to now?  Its still pretty darn good!
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W.H. Cosgrove

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 10 courses that need to be "restored"
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2008, 09:46:36 AM »
Quote from: Kalen Braley on July 14, 2008, 09:44:04 AM
Joel,

I find it odd you mention Sharp Park as "realistic".  With the sea wall in the way of a few holes I wouldn't put this in the realistic category.

Also was curious about WH's mention of Indian Canyon....what was there before as compared to now?  Its still pretty darn good!

Very good. just needs the tender loving care of a restoration.  To clean up some of the abuses of years of being a municipal with loads of play.
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