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Richard Hetzel

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Landfill Golf Courses
« on: July 12, 2008, 09:17:42 PM »
Has anyone played any worthwhile courses that were designed atop a former landfill? Here is a review of one that I wrote as well as a short interview with Paul Miller, golf course architect about landfill golf:

Phoenix Golf Links, Columbus, Ohio:

http://www.golfwrx.com/BagChatter/2008/07/04/landfill-golf-part-one/

Paul Miller Golf Architect interview:

http://www.golfwrx.com/BagChatter/2008/07/09/landfill-golf-part-2-paul-miller-architect-interview/

I wonder how cost effective constructing this type of course really is in the long run...
Best Played So Far This Season:
Crystal Downs CC (MI), The Bridge (NY), Canterbury GC (OH), Lakota Links (CO), Montauk Downs (NY), Sedge Valley (WI)

John Moore II

Re: Landfill Golf Courses
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2008, 09:26:11 PM »
Yes, I have played a very good golf course built on a landfill. Park Ridge in Lake Worth, FL. Designed by Jeff Grossman and Roy Case, each contributors to this site. Perhaps they could fill us in on more details.  Also, I think Liberty National and Bayonne are landfill/waste area courses.  I would assume they are quite cost effective in the long run, the property remains essentially worthless, even with the course on it. Nothing substantial can be built there. Plus, I am sure the initial purchase cost was fairly low, if it wasn't build by a municipality.

Peter Pallotta

Re: Landfill Golf Courses
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2008, 09:48:28 PM »
Rich - yes, just yesterday in fact. BraeBen, a municipal course owned by the city of Mississauga (just on the border of Toronto). A former landfill, it was capped and the methane gas is being captured for electricity generation. A good course, "only" 6,500 from the back tees but as I think another thread from a while back mentioned it still tests the very good golfer. Ted Baker is the designer (sorry I don't know anything else about him), but it's a bumpy fescue-type course with some interesting features. There's also a 9 hole course/academy, and the green fees are very, very reasonable, expecially for the greater Toronto area and for junior golfers. Anyway, I enjoyed the course very much, and couldn't help but like (and wanted to support) this kind fo construction and use of municipal funds -- a landfil that becomesa a good and affordbale golf course in the middle of a sprawling subdivision, i.e. where people actually live.  I don't kow how much it cost - over $10 million, I think -- or how it works as a busines model or public policy -- but I am glad it is there.

Peter


Phil_the_Author

Re: Landfill Golf Courses
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2008, 11:22:26 PM »
"Has anyone played any worthwhile courses that were designed atop a former landfill?"

Merrick Road Park Golf Course in Merrick, Long Island, New York.

Worthwhile as a great place to take a youngster to first play golf... It is where my Mom would hit her 100-yard drives in as many directions as can be found on a compass in order to allow me to play golf as a young man...

How can any course be more memorable than that?  ;D

Forrest Richardson

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Re: Landfill Golf Courses
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2008, 11:22:42 PM »
We are currently working on three layouts for landfills. Make that four.

The cost can be high compared to non-encumbered land. However, the real value is in transforming land values on adjacent land. This, combined with assigning liability away from the landfill owner (usually a city or state) is the greatest value of all. Land values can escalate by 10x when a closed landfill is converted to a golf use.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Norbert P

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Re: Landfill Golf Courses
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2008, 11:24:24 PM »
Golfers have the highest methane content of any creature in the known universe. Perhaps we should just make a giant "elephant graveyard" and light a match. Start the whole golfing culture over again.  I once tried to push an idea of golf paradise (Featherie Banks) on a superfund site, but nobody liked the idea of playing in a hazmat suit so it was brutally rejected.   Probably didn't help that the site visit created third degree burns and peeling skin below the knees.  



"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Ken McGlynn

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Re: Landfill Golf Courses
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2008, 12:30:45 AM »
Having gone to school in SoCal in the late 70s/early 80's, I'm fairly certain 2 courses I played in the City of Industry (a very dreary area compared to Westwood) were build on an old garbage dump. Industry Hills had 2 courses, the Eisenhower and Zaharais, both very well-conditioned and affordable, yet extremely difficult, if not unfair in places. Do I have this right?

JWinick

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Re: Landfill Golf Courses
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2008, 01:13:06 AM »
Harborside International is a 36-hole facility in the city of Chicago.  It features two solid tracks built on a former landfill.  It might be one of the best examples.

Certainly, landfill courses make little financial sense for a private investor.   But, you can certainly argue the public interest to take an eyesore and turn it into a productive use.   

Kevin Pallier

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Re: Landfill Golf Courses
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2008, 02:49:02 AM »
Whilst not a great golf course - Russell Vale in Wollongong was built on and old dump site - I cant think of much else that could have been used for that land filled area ?

Adrian_Stiff

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Re: Landfill Golf Courses
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2008, 04:46:02 AM »
I have built a few courses on Landfill sites and am working on one at the moment. It is inert landfill though, subsoils dug from another site, which we use to model the dull land to form the course. It is very cost effective and in many instances the course construction comes out close to zero as a fee is received for receiving each load of landfill.

The biggest drawback is probably the drainage is more expensive. Its agreat way to recycle a waste product back into a sports construction.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Joe Bausch

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Re: Landfill Golf Courses
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2008, 04:47:55 AM »
Yes.  McCullough's Emerald Golf Links in Egg Harbor Township, NJ, a Stephen Kay design.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Landfill Golf Courses
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2008, 09:03:14 AM »
In addition to Park Ridge GC in Lake Worth, FL,which I've played a few times, Roy Case also did Wildcat GC in Houston, TX, a 36 hole "brownfield" complex:

www.wildcatgolfclub.com

Emerald Links is sometimes referred to as "Twisted Dune Light." ;D
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Tim Gerrish

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Re: Landfill Golf Courses
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2008, 09:39:40 AM »
I wrote mt Master thesis on landfill golf courses and visited many (industry/Harbouside, etc.).  Landfills have great potential because of there location to large population and land re-use.

Then built my thesis project in Natick, MA Sassamon Trace.  It is a 9 hole executive with a par 5 and and 4 par 3's.   The sandy soils and required good drained makes for excellent conditions, unfortunately, the Town doesn't have the budget to make it better.

In the northeast the landfill size is typically too small for a golf course.  We had room for 4 holes at Sassamon.  The land surrounding a landfilll in these parts is usually wetland (the colonists knew the best place to put the trash...). 

I think the new Fresh Kills (old Nicklaus) New York City course is on a landfill. 


Ronald Montesano

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Re: Landfill Golf Courses
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2008, 11:11:20 AM »
Are we differentiating between reclaimed land/brownfield and complete landfill?  Industry Hills 36-Hole complex was the first I read of, back in my wee child days of the late 1970s/early 1980s.  Hurdzan-Fry did a fine one in Scituate, MA, called Widow's Walk, then reclaimed some railroad land in suburban Buffalo (Cheektowaga) for Diamond Hawk.  I played one in Charlotte (named after some local pol) with Methane venting everywhere...should have marked the tubes with yardages...they were that prevalent.  There is one in the works in the Bronx called Ferry Point...been up and down and up and down and maybe up again.  Buffalo has some land in the midst of the industrial district.  Routings have been discussed but in the end, it will probably go back to industry.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Forrest Richardson

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Re: Landfill Golf Courses
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2008, 11:21:35 AM »
Among the earliest were Silverbell (Tucson) and Cave Creek Park (Phoenix), both Arthur Jack Snyder designs.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Richard Hetzel

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Re: Landfill Golf Courses
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2008, 11:54:04 AM »
My reference point was more from a landfill point of view. Accordingly, I wonder how many brownfield or superfund sites have been transformed into golf courses?

Isn't Old Works in Montana one of those types of sites?
Best Played So Far This Season:
Crystal Downs CC (MI), The Bridge (NY), Canterbury GC (OH), Lakota Links (CO), Montauk Downs (NY), Sedge Valley (WI)

Forrest Richardson

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Re: Landfill Golf Courses
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2008, 12:18:49 PM »
Old Works was a Superfund site as I recall. So, too, were portions of the work we did at The Hideout (Utah). At The Hideout, the wetlands downstream was re-constructed on the site of an old Uranium Mill...the ultimate landfill!




— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Tim Nugent

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Re: Landfill Golf Courses
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2008, 04:53:19 PM »
To answer the original question about Landfill - not Brownfield,  they can cost more but then again, it depends on how creative you are.  Some, like Harborside are costly - but then again that inclused the cost of actually capping the landfill as part of the construction cost where others make use of previously capped landfills.  So it's hard to get  apples to apples.  That said, irrigation needs to be practically wall-to-wall.  Top Soils tend to be substandard if they exist at all.  Forrest may have it a bit easier out i the southwest where you can get bermuda to grow on just about anything.  Getting some type of Top Soil (or sand) if none exists is the biggest hurdle.  An irrigation resevoir is also another hurdle.  Fill dirt may actually, depending on the location be a source of off-setting revenue.  USGA greens would be a big No-No, so greens construction is cheaper.  Hard surface cart path is also problematic due to the shifting subsurface.  Irrigation has to be some sort of extremely strong or flexible pipe with intregral joints/connections.  Fuel storage, maintenance buildings and clubhouses are also problematic.  They can be located on the landfill but not utilizing normal building techniques. All earthwork is fill only, no cut.  So about 3x's the normal fill is required.  Also how that fillis placed and where will affect the underlying cap and hence cause future drainage problems that can't be just "piped away".  Add to that, if a methane collection system with it's associated network of gas wells and connecting piping are present, these have to be incorportated into the design as improperly placed fill can have disastorous effects on the systems functionality
Other than that, construction is pretty much the same as any terrafirma course.
PS. Every landfill is created differently, so what works on one may have no bearing on another.
As far as costs, I just finished a 9-hole and double-ended range, public course under a union contract for a little over $2 million. Rough grading, and topsoil provided by the municipality. - This is just GC, no clubhouse, maintenance building, etc.
Coasting is a downhill process

Adrian_Stiff

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Re: Landfill Golf Courses
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2008, 07:36:54 PM »
Landfill in the UK is clearly different to US Landfill.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Tim Gerrish

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Re: Landfill Golf Courses
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2008, 07:55:34 PM »
Adrain,

Earlier you described a landfill course as

"It is inert landfill though, subsoils dug from another site, which we use to model the dull land to form the course."

Was the soils contaminated?  Where you allowed to excavate?

That sounds like a typical golf course project in Florida!  You dig ponds to generate dirt to build features. 

Black Rock in Hingham, MA was built with soil from the Boston's Big Dig tunnel project.  Excavation was by blasting that generated crushed rock for the highway project.       

Joel_Stewart

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Re: Landfill Golf Courses
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2008, 08:12:48 PM »
I did a quick search and found this,

Name of Course
 Location of Course
 Year Opened

Victoria Golf Course
 Carson, California
 1962
 
Lew Galbraith Municipal
 Oakland, California
 1966
 
Mountain View Golf Course
 San Jose, California
 1966
 
Rancho San Joaquin Golf Course
 Irvine, California
 1969
 
Mountain Gate Country Club
 Los Angeles, California
 1975
 
Mangrove Bay
 St. Petersburg, Florida
 1977
 
Silver Bell Golf Course
 Tucson, Arizona
 1979
 
Industry Hills
 Industry, California
 1979
 
Shoal Canyon Golf Course
 Glendale, California
 1979
 
Bixby Golf Course
 Long Beach, California
 1980
 
Englewood Municipal
 Englewood, Colorado
 1982
 
Shoreline Golf Links
 Mountain View, California
 1983
 
The #2 course Galbrith, was closed again a few years ago and sludge from the Port of Oakland placed on top.  A new golf course was built, Metropolitan Golf Links by Fred Bliss.  Sadly they ran out of money and couldn't sand cap the entire golf course.  Then the city has run out of money and the course conditions have gone down significantly even though it's only a few years old.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2008, 11:19:27 PM by Joel_Stewart »

Voytek Wilczak

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Re: Landfill Golf Courses
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2008, 08:56:36 PM »
Nobody has mentioned Bayonne Golf Club in this thread, perhaps the most highly praised and architecturally compelling of "landfill golf courses".

I believe BGC accepted contaminated New York Harbor dredgings as fill, for which the developer was paid.

Building these 100 ft tall dunes with clean fill would probably have made the cost prohibitively high.

Kalen Braley

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Re: Landfill Golf Courses
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2008, 09:03:08 PM »
The old Tony Lema course in San Leandro, CA, (not sure whats it called now), is also on odl landfill.

With the vents for gases underneath it sure would get pretty smelly when the wind wasn't blowing....

mike_beene

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Re: Landfill Golf Courses
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2008, 10:20:13 PM »
I believe Texas Star near the Dallas airport is.An exellent muny by Keith Foster.

Tim Nugent

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Re: Landfill Golf Courses
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2008, 10:47:31 PM »
You guys are mixing apples and oranges. A "Landfill" course is shorthand for a Sanitary Landfill ie garbage, high amount organic waste, construction materials (the stuff that can't/isn't recycled) etc.  Due to the varied nature of the waste stream, it is necessary to prevent water from perculating down through the garbage and coming out the botton with a bit of everything included. This liquid is called leachate and no one wants it contaiminating the ground water.  So these landfills are capped with either an impervious clay layer 3-5' thick or a thick liner that is sealed (like a waterbed).  Because it is sealed, the natural gas (with a large Methane component) developed as part of the decomposition of the organic waste, cna't escape into the atmosphere so it must be either flared (burned off) or captured in a network of collection wells. Once collected it can be used as a fuel to burn in turbine engines which in turn produce electricity.  As the waste decomposes, it loses volume and the landfill cap settles.  Because the waste stream is different truckload to truckload, day-to-day, this settlement is not uniform nor constant.  Plus, garbage only is about 1/3 as dense as soil so any uneven loading of the cap ie. golf course features, will cause accelerated settling in the immediate area.  Plus, all that moisture in the waste begins to condense into leachate and is pumped to keep the internal water (leachate) table at a low level if gas is being mined (decomposition is faster in a non-liquid environment).  This pumping also causes the landfill to settle. There, in a nutshell is Landfill Course 101.
Having done or designed more than a few of these, I speak from experience. 
There are also C&D (construction desbris) landfill that take non-organic or hazardous materials from construction projects (like building demo or overburden from an urban sewer or tunnel project (where a road can't be use to stockpile the material until it can go back into the hole).  There are also brownfield projects where sites have been used for other purposes (industrial or mining) and left in a unrestored state.  The restoration can include a golf course or just a meadow.
So they all shouldn't be lumped into "landfill". Hope this clarifies the terminology.

Coasting is a downhill process

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