[JohnV]

Bill,

While the rule is not acceptable under the Rules of Golf, I have no real problem with a club wanting to do it.  It is a one-time deal for a specific dangerous situation that probably should be there but is.

I'm realistic enough to realize that many clubs do what they want when it comes to marking a course or making local rules.  That is fine, but if I'm ever involved with a tournament there, you can bet that it won't be used.

Heck there are plenty of clubs that play winter rules all year round when there is no need.

Most of the weird local rules end up with players getting a lower handicap than they should.  This one probably doesn't.

[Ken Moum]

...but if I'm ever involved with a tournament there, you can bet that it won't be used.

At those South Dakota courses, I don't think that's going to be a problem. The one with the schoolyard on the first hole, is about 4400 yards for two loops of nine from the only set of tees.

<grin>

The other ones are all well under 3,000 for nine holes

FWIW, I have played in multiple tournaments on all four courses. When you live in South Dakota, you do what you have to to compete.

Ken

[Brent Hutto]

The ninth hole at Pitlochry Golf Club has a local rule specifying that it must be played as a dogleg left. It's a short downhill Par 4 that's only about 280 yards if you play it as a dogleg. In a straight line it's probably 250-ish to the green and 40-50 feet downhill but that line flies over about 75 yards of property that is not owned by the golf course and in fact contains an inhabited house.

In the medal event I played we treated any shot that flew over the OB property as an OB shot, my first tee shot was badly sliced so I played a provisional but it turns out the first ball landed about 3-4 yards short of the OB line. At any rate it would be a stupid shot to play because a ball arriving at the green complex would almost certainly go bounding down the hill another 50 yards or more.

[Mike Hendren]

The 13th hole at Vanderbilt Legends Club's south course is a par three that plays across the bend of a creek.  The club was required to purchase air rights from the owner of the adjacent property that juts out between the tee and green.

[Chuck Brown]

Can there be any better example of "awful golf course design" than a hole that requires a wholesale revision of a rule in order to make it safe or playable?

Why is it not a solution to plant a large stand of "Hinkle trees" to force a tee shot on the correct line?

Mr. Hochstein: I was not aware that the Mackenzie-designed U-M course prohibited chipping on the 6th green by virtue of a local rule.  I know for a fact that when they have hosted the Michigan Open, qualifiers, etc., there is no such local rule.  Is that local rule printed on the current scorecards?

[John Kavanaugh]

Why is it not a solution to plant a large stand of "Hinkle trees" to force a tee shot on the correct line?

For one, there ain't no Hinkle tree big enough to prevent a punched 3 iron that would still be an advantage and two, at 67 cents a hole including cart they don't have the money.  Another problem at rural "Country Clubs" is that they have a minimum of 50 scrambles per year and there isn't anything much more fun than hitting a ball trough a Hinkle tree in a scramble.  I'm lucky I didn't go to jail once when I tried to hit a monster fade over a neighborhood and double crossed the ball three streets deep.  No jury would believe a golfer could hit a shot that deep into where people live by accident.

[Dan King]

John_Cullum writes:
Contradicting the rules of golf is not a criminal offense. People are at leisure to make whatever rules they want, but it is not playing golf when they do. It is very similar to golf, but it aint golf if you make up your own rules

So the USGA and R&A now own the name of golf? When did this happen?

If I play the game like it was played for most of golf's history, what do I call it?

Cheers,
Dan King

Any fool can make a rule, and any fool will mind it.
 --Henry David Thoreau

[Mike Boehm]

Can there be any better example of "awful golf course design" than a hole that requires a wholesale revision of a rule in order to make it safe or playable?

Why is it not a solution to plant a large stand of "Hinkle trees" to force a tee shot on the correct line?

Mr. Hochstein: I was not aware that the Mackenzie-designed U-M course prohibited chipping on the 6th green by virtue of a local rule.  I know for a fact that when they have hosted the Michigan Open, qualifiers, etc., there is no such local rule.  Is that local rule printed on the current scorecards?

Chuck -

The last two times I played UM (summer of 2006 and 2007), the pin was above the bunker in the back left of the green.  The course places a sign in the middle of the lower portion of the green  to the effect of "chipping is prohibited."  I do not recall the local rule being listed on  the scorecard though.

Mike

[Sean_A]

Can there be any better example of "awful golf course design" than a hole that requires a wholesale revision of a rule in order to make it safe or playable?

Why is it not a solution to plant a large stand of "Hinkle trees" to force a tee shot on the correct line?

Mr. Hochstein: I was not aware that the Mackenzie-designed U-M course prohibited chipping on the 6th green by virtue of a local rule.  I know for a fact that when they have hosted the Michigan Open, qualifiers, etc., there is no such local rule.  Is that local rule printed on the current scorecards?

Chuck

There is a daily play rule at UofM which does not permit chipping on the 6th green.  I think there was sign near the green, but I don't recall where it was.  I just know I was compelled to holster the wedge - hence the reason why I think the green complex (or at least short grass) should be widened on the lower and middle right of the green and possibly on the upper right side as well.  However, I fear the green would get screwed up and so I would rather be allowed to use the wedge!

My 2 cents.  No OOB within the interior of the course - its just an excuse to plant shit.  I actually think things are safer when people can see so I would advocate not planting trees/walls (imaginary or not) in tight situations.   

Dan

Your HDT quote can easily apply to the local rule as well.

Ciao

[Chuck Brown]

I do indeed remember seeing the sign at U-M #6... but only occasionally and some years ago.  And I hadn't seen it in a long time.  I suppose there is no need for it when the pin is on the front part.  Maybe I just haven't played it recently with a rear flagstick position. ?!

[John_Cullum]

John_Cullum writes:
Contradicting the rules of golf is not a criminal offense. People are at leisure to make whatever rules they want, but it is not playing golf when they do. It is very similar to golf, but it aint golf if you make up your own rules

So the USGA and R&A now own the name of golf? When did this happen?

If I play the game like it was played for most of golf's history, what do I call it?

Cheers,
Dan King

Call it "Golf like it was played for many years."

I don't know that the USGA/ R and A "own" the game, but they have become the widely recognized writers of THE rules and consider themselves guardians of the game. I guess nothing prevents another group from writing up there own rules, and there is nothing the USGA/R&A could do about it, and if those rules caught on, well- James Vernon wouldn't have anybody to boss around anymore

[TEPaul]

JohnC:

Very nicely said---very nice.

The R&A/USGA try to do the Rules of Golf for the overall benefit of golfers to be able to play the game with a degree of unification borne of understanding various situations. If others agree to play the game some other way, and if they enjoy doing it that way I'm sure the R&A/USGA are cool with that. However, there is and always has been a certain understanding about these things amongst some golfers and clubs and associations. It's basically less confusing and apparently less contentious that way. If golfers don't understand the Rules in various situations the Rules do provide for how that can be resolved too.

The Rules of Golf can be confusing sometimes but I've always felt there is a certain beauty to them in the over-all. I've always felt the best policy of all with the Rules and in certain difficult Rules situations is to stay calm and try not to freak out. 

[JohnV]

Dan,

The USGA and R&A don't own the game of golf, but the do own the Rules of the Game of Golf (see copyright statements).

As Tom said, anyone can come up with any rules they want and nobody will stop them.  But, if they want a handicap or they want to play in a tournament run by most courses / associations / tours etc. they will have to play by their rules and most of the time, those rules are the ones written by the USGA / R&A.

When I go out to a course and get paired up with 3 other people and they find out what I do, they are frequently concerned that I will be a stickler on the rules with them.  I say that as long as we don't have a bet or some other kind of competition going, they can do anything they please.

Ain't nobodies business by their own.

[Dan King]

All I was responding to was John who wrote if you don't play the USGA/R&A game you can not call it golf.

I disagree.

The USGA and R&A have come up with a decent enough way to play the game. I'd argue they allow to much touching of the golf ball and they have allowed the rules to spin out of control, but hey, I got no problem with people who want to play by that game. Even though they don't have tradition on their side, I can live with them calling their game golf.

I'm just not willing to say that is the one and only way to play the game.

Cheers,
Dan King

As far as I'm concerned, I prefer silent vice to ostentatious virtue.
 --Albert Einstein

[John_Cullum]

Dan

For what it's worth:

Rule 1. The Game

1-1. General-The Game of Golf consists of playing a ball with a club from the teeing ground into the hole by a stroke or successive strokes in accordance with the Rules.
 

[Dan King]

John_Cullum writes:
For what it's worth:

Rule 1. The Game

1-1. General-The Game of Golf consists of playing a ball with a club from the teeing ground into the hole by a stroke or successive strokes in accordance with the Rules.

For what it's worth:

If you accept the game of golf requires playing by the USGA and R&A rules, then then Rule 1 define golf. What happens if you don't accept the USGA and R&A get to define golf?

I guess if I am playing in accordance to the USGA and R&A rules, I have to accept that there is no other way to play golf. I just have to dismiss their arrogance as part of the game.  Luckily, right at this instance I am not playing golf according to the USGA/R&A rules, so I can define golf however I want to define golf.

Cheers,
Dan King

The 2007 Webster dictionary defines a "hill" and a "mountain" this way:

    Hill - "1: a usually rounded natural elevation of land lower than a mountain"
    Mountain - "1a: a landmass that projects conspicuously above its surroundings and is higher than a hill"
 --Wikipedia

[John Kavanaugh]

I just got back from the course with my son and during our nightly chippypig contest I used a beer bottle as my club.  My question is...Can a beer bottle be a conforming club?  note: Modern plastic rakes are not worth a damn when used as clubs.

[John_Cullum]

I just got back from the course with my son and during our nightly chippypig contest I used a beer bottle as my club.  My question is...Can a beer bottle be a conforming club?  note: Modern plastic rakes are not worth a damn when used as clubs.

A beer bottle can be a conforming club in a chipping contest.

Lee Trevino used to claim he played golf with a Dr Pepper bottle. I never could figure out exactly what he meant

[mike_beene]

Trevino would tape the empty soda bottle and hit it fungo style.Legend has it that many did not understand,and that many paid for an education.

[Rob_Waldron]

Tom

I do not believe that the USGA/R&A have a rule restricting the use of a club in a given circumstance. Do you think a club should be able to do so???

I remember having to chip over the left bunker on from the front left portion of #9 green at Merion in the Patterson Cup years ago, much to the dismay of my caddie. I could not putt do to the bunker being in my line. I wedged it to three feet. Of course I missed the putt.

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