Adam:
You constantly harp on the requirement that all golf courses must be conducive to all types of players. Wrong buckeroo.
Think of the category of food items -- not everybody likes all types of dishes -- nor should they. I mentioned previously on Wolf Creek - in the event you missed it -- that Wolf Creek is akin to spicey Thai food. If you don't have a taste for Thai food so be it. Stick to the classic design golf courses - the steak and potato types. Plenty of people on GCA have such a limited elasticity on golf designs but keep this in mind the same people who bitch and moan on Wolf Creek will fall over themselves in gushing about such holes as Klondyke and Dell at Lahinch which are frankly silly types in my mind that take away from the uniqueness that makes up that fine Irish course. I've said this before -- people will gush about quirk and other odd type holes / courses from the UK and Ireland but do something similar or even more offbeat here in the States and people cry foul.
Gotta love the consistent message and application.
Shivas:
Thanks for your astute comments from the comforts of your living room / office, et al. Pictures provide nothing more than a limited understanding. If you played the hole you might think otherwise.
George:
Let's face it -- some people can't hit Kansas from the Oklahoma line. These same people also can't handle fairway widths that are narrower than Texas. There's a place for such people -- it's called the lesson tee.
I never said Wolf Creek is for everyone. Those who need the dimensions of a football field in terms of width and length to play have courses for such players.
I've also said if people play the appropriate tees in many of their rounds the situation would likely fare better for them. No doubt the cart rides / paths will leave people shaking their head. I can understand that but Dennis Rider - the man responsible for the course - deserves plenty of credit for the thrill ride you get when playing there.
You mentioned the nature of the 2nd hole at Wolf Creek. The hole provides a myriad of options for the player to consider. I like the idea that the so-called lay-up option is far from a cinch thing because one needs to place the shot between the landing width area of the fairway. It's not easy -- nor should it be. Players can also play the hole as a cape-type hole and risk a good bit more with their tee shot if they so decide. Long players can drive the green with a bold play but it's high risk for high reward as it should be.
No doubt the walk to the rear portion of the 2nd tee may have some people looking for the ER room.
I'll be the first to admit that.
George, you and likely a number of others on this site remind me of movie fans who only think classic movies such as Citizen Kane and The Godfather are worth celebrating -- I tend to see Wolf Creek like an Indiana Jones movie. It's not going to win an Oscar but I can tell you this for the average move fan / golfer the time spent there will be one you won't forget.
Jason:
I'll say this again -- if you are the type who simply sees golf architecture as the classic school of thought (e.g. carried in the present day through the likes of Doak, C&C, Hanse, et al,) then Wolf Creek and others of this type will never be your cup of tea. Fair enough.
I've heard the comments from you and others and while I will never convince you of my position - I have taken considerable time and thought to respond to each and every knock that's been thrown Wolf Crek's way.
Like I said -- if you don't like the carry at the 9th from the tips -- then be sure to say likewise for the carry from the tips at Merion's closing hole. Be also sure to mention the gigantic size of the par-3 8th green at Wolf Creek. There's plenty of visual terror applied there -- no less than what Pete Dye built a career in doing. See the 17th at The Ocean Course as a good example of this type.
I did state specifically that wind is always the unknown variable. There are times when I have played Wolf Creek that you face a 4-5 club wind. On other times it can be literally calm as can be -- especially on many mornings.
You say the course is not "outstanding." That may be -- for you.
The different ratings should be seen for what they say. Clearly, someone beyond me likes the place. I'll also say this -- for all the hype and publicity that Shadow Creek gets -- Wolf Creek is the epitome of what Vegas golf should be about -- a blending in with the native landscape -- not a complete running away from it.