[Brad Fleischer]

heres some of my random black mesa and arcadia pics... just thought id share a few...

[Matt_Ward]

Brad:

Be curious to hear your comments on both courses -- interesting mix between BM and Arcadia.

[Michael Dugger]

Fine work, great images....

[Bill_McBride]

I've played them both and really prefer Black Mesa.  The routing of Arcadian Bluffs is a muddle.  The back nine has some truly bad holes in those steep valleys.

Black Mesa 9-1 for me.

Now throw Crystal Downs in the mix.....

[Brad Fleischer]

Mike: For me strictly on design and shot value black mesa wins hands down. To me arcadia felt way to much how do I say it "fake" Like when looking at the course I knew what earth was moved and how much. The green complexes were goofy at times. Now that doesn't mean I didn't have a blast because I did. The views alone are worth a play. I was the silent minority in the group who liked black mesa better but that's because everyone played well at arcadia and again the views and scenery can get you thinking it's better than it really  is architecturally. There are some strong holes but on a whole to me it's not even close between the two.  Now black mesa did it for me in every way. The routing ,the options, even the sense of isolation. I have heard complaints about the greens and if your a bad putter etc. To me that doesnt fly espeacially after a few plays. Geez after my first round I was bitching. Had fun but I was still bitching. Second round I started getting it and the third round well I loved it. Plus when I was there the green speeds were perfect ie not to fast so you couldn't handle the slopes not to slow were it was tough to judge pace uphill sidehill and downhill. Hope you get what I mean. To me the routing flowed . Granted not every hole was perfect but on a whole I really liked it. I don't get to play many privates but as far as public goes it's in my top 5. I could play there every day and be a happy man. Again just my humble opinion and again i'm not an expert.

miked: thanks

Bill: hope one day to be able to throw cd in the mix !! 

[Bill_McBride]

Bill: hope one day to be able to throw cd in the mix !! 

I hope you get to, it's a wonderful place and really fun.  There is a lot of Crystal Downs in the design of Kingsley Club as well as in most of Tom Doak's designs; he and Mike DeVries have played lots at Crystal apparently.

I completely agree with your analysis of Arcadian Bluffs.  Interestingly, I see the same contrast between Pa'ako Ridge and Black Mesa that you see between Arcadian Bluffs and Black Mesa.  BM is one of the best golf courses built in the last 50 years on a lot of different levels, what a design by Baxter Spann!

Of course having very interesting terrain and maybe 500 acres of it must have helped!  There are just so many different shots you can play at BM that you would never be able to contemplate at AB or PR; that's the difference I think.

JMHO as always.........

[Brian Cenci]

Once again another Arcadia bashing thread.  I've never played Black Mesa so therefore can't compare the two.  Routing of the back nine is just fine and I've said it at least 10 times on this site.  Take away who designed Arcadia, put it out at Bandon and it holds its own every day of the week with those 3 courses.  The 3rd hole at Arcadia is just great the way it looks as though the green drops off into eternity.

Bottom line Arcadia is a great course.  I think its one of the top 2 public courses in the state.

-Brian

[Brad Fleischer]

Brian: By no means was I bashing arcadia or trying to make a bashing thread. I put pics up just to share and was asked my humble opinion. I think it's a fun course with great scenery. I don't think however it's on the same level as black mesa and pacific dunes. Again I am no expert at all but when push comes to shove I do beleive bm is a better course even with out the scenery of the lake. I could even argue bm has some interesting scenery of it's own.

 I would have no problem playing arcadia again at all. Like I said it was fun and I enjoyed it but when asked to compare between the two well bm is just better to ME that's all. No bashing intended.

[Andy Troeger]

This should come as no surprise coming from me, but I take Black Mesa over Arcadia Bluffs as well. I can't compare Arcadia Bluffs to Bandon having not been there, but it doesn't quite hold up to Chambers Bay or Whistling Straits in my estimation. 8-2 Black Mesa.

Brad,
I think your comment about BM and interesting scenery is a bit of understatement. I'd rate Black Mesa as high as Arcadia from an aesthetics standpoint. I like mountains though as much or more as the water view so take that for what its worth.

[Bill_McBride]

Once again another Arcadia bashing thread.  I've never played Black Mesa so therefore can't compare the two.  Routing of the back nine is just fine and I've said it at least 10 times on this site.  Take away who designed Arcadia, put it out at Bandon and it holds its own every day of the week with those 3 courses.  The 3rd hole at Arcadia is just great the way it looks as though the green drops off into eternity.

Bottom line Arcadia is a great course.  I think its one of the top 2 public courses in the state.

-Brian

Brian, not bashing Arcadian Bluffs, which I think is a good but not great course, just comparing two courses we have played and contrasting the two.  In this comparison both Brad and I think Black Mesa comes out pretty far ahead based on shot values, routing, fun....this is a legitimate exercise, not an "Arcadia bashing thread."

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