[Glenn Spencer]

if you were running one of those events on the Tour, wouldn't you seriously consider making your PGA event one of the throwback variety. We have seen what having a girl in a tournament does to create interest. All equipment pre 1990 or something like that. Imagine the coverage something like that would receive. Does the Tour have to sanction it, would they?

[PCCraig]

Nice idea...but not too sure if that would ever happen.

I can't see a PGA tour pro saying that it would be worth it. At most you may be able to get some Hooters Tour guys to do it.

[Glenn Spencer]

Nice idea...but not too sure if that would ever happen.

I can't see a PGA tour pro saying that it would be worth it. At most you may be able to get some Hooters Tour guys to do it.

Pat,

I get where you are going. But in all seriousness. Lets pretend the purse was the same and only have of the 156 on the money list showed and it was filled with some Nationwide guys. Wouldn't the interest alone be enough to cancel out the fact that John Rollins or Davis Love weren't there? I would think there are some Nationwide guys that would do anything to play for a PGA purse.

[Kalen Braley]

If the money was there, the guys would come...simple as that!!

Maybe not a Vij, Tiger, Phil, or those guys, but pretty much everyone else would.

[Phil McDade]

Glenn:

As one who's followed the Milwaukee PGA tour stop for awhile, I do think you have to give the tourney officials over the years some credit for trying some interesting and varied approaches.

For instance, back in '96, the tourney organizers were savvy enough to recognize that the tournament fell the week after Tiger's attempt for a 3rd consecutive US Am win, and they offered him a sponsor's exemption very early in the year in the hope that a) Tiger would win the Am; and b) that Tiger had no more mountains to climb as an amateur, and might turn pro after the Am win. Smart thinking on their part! It all worked out as planned, and I think the tourney that year set attendance records that still stand. (Tiger finished well back, but did have an ace; the crowds were something like 10 deep on every fairway on the first day he played.)

They also made an attempt to go back to a classic old course, one with muni roots to boot, in moving it to Brown Deer from the undistinguished Tuckaway in the early 1990s. I can't say Brown Deer is one of the better courses on the Tour, but it has a certain cache with the short hitters, as it's just about the shortest course played on Tour (and winners reflect it, as guys like Pavin and Loren Roberts have won there). The tourney organizers also go out of the way to market the stop as a chance to see the state's pros (Stricker, Kelly, Skip Kendall, Forsman, JP Hayes), and Andy North has really been a strong supporter of the stop, often lobbying his fellow pros to play there.

Despite all that, I just think the tourney -- for a lot of reasons -- is just something of a misfit on the Tour, and I worry how long Milwaukee can keep it. It's always had a bad hand re. scheduling -- it used to be the Labor Day weekend tourney, when lots of the top names have already taken the year off, and now it's opposite the British Open, the dead zone for many a tourney. Like many, many things in Milwaukee, the tourney operates in the shadow of Chicago and the Western Open. And it's also sort of been undercut by the deft marketing approach that Herb Kohler has taken with his Sheboygan courses in landing big tourneys like the US Women's Open, the PGA, the Senior Open, and now two more PGAs and the Ryder Cup.

A better schedule and a better course would help; personally, it'd be neat to see the pros take on Milwaukee CC (a first-race Alison course) or a fully restored Blue Mounds (a Raynor with several template holes), but I think the odds of those places opening their doors to the pros for a Tour stop is pretty remote.

[PCCraig]

In the past I used to love to drive up to Brown Deer to play from Chicago. In my high school summers myself and a buddy would take a day off from work at the golf course I worked at and drive up for the day. It cost something like $90-$100 to play 36 holes of golf, and the best part is you could tee off on a weekday morning around 7 and play 36 by 3pm or so because no one was ever there. It is funny how everyone talks the course down as easy, one year I played the Monday or Tuesday after the GMO and it was hard as hell. They had 3-4” rough and it played tight. While not spectacular I can honestly say that it is better than 75%-80% of the private clubs around the Chicago suburbs.

[Glenn Spencer]

Phil,

Milwaukee and San Antonio were just the two that came to mind. It really applies to every tournament that Tiger doesn't play in.

[John Moore II]

I will say that the Greater Greensboro Open, oh, oops, forgot the current corporate sponsorship, Wyndham Championship, has somewhat gone back and is having a course from the past host the event again. They have switched to Sedgefield, an old Ross course, making it the only Ross course on tour. With my opening screwed up sentence I meant to make the point that basically as long as the event can keep a corporate sponsor, they are safe. Once the money leaves, the tournament is gone. Hell, Atlanta lost its event and I think Atlanta is the 4th largest market the tour visits every year, behind NY, LA and Houston (since the Western Open...oh yeah...BMW Championship is no longer in Chicago every year). So, really no event is safe, they all must keep the money coming.

[PCCraig]

I think it is an interesting idea. I think it would make a smaller difference on a course like Brown Deer vs. someplace like Torrey Pines. With older equipment, no matter how good a golfer you are, some of those 500-yard par-4's will start playing like par-5's quickly.

I had the chance to play a few holes with hickories at TCC - Brookline last summer. What I found was that they really were not that hard to hit or get up in the air, they just did not go as far. If anything they were easier to "work" the ball.

 

[Scott Coan]

I agree that a lot of these tournaments need to do something to differentiate themselves, which becomes even more painfully obvious when there is no Tiger on the horizon.

Would be fun to see one tourney impose an 8 club maximum and issue a standard small bag with the tournament's sponsor emblazed on all of them for everyone to see.  The real kicker would be NO CADDIES. 

The scores would not be that much higher (if at all) and would be a joy for all to watch.

[JohnV]

if you were running one of those events on the Tour, wouldn't you seriously consider making your PGA event one of the throwback variety. We have seen what having a girl in a tournament does to create interest. All equipment pre 1990 or something like that. Imagine the coverage something like that would receive. Does the Tour have to sanction it, would they?

Yes, the tour would have to sanction it and there is no way they would do it for a regular season event.  The best opportunity would be for Norman or Tiger to do it at their silly season event.

[J_ Crisham]

In the past I used to love to drive up to Brown Deer to play from Chicago. In my high school summers myself and a buddy would take a day off from work at the golf course I worked at and drive up for the day. It cost something like $90-$100 to play 36 holes of golf, and the best part is you could tee off on a weekday morning around 7 and play 36 by 3pm or so because no one was ever there. It is funny how everyone talks the course down as easy, one year I played the Monday or Tuesday after the GMO and it was hard as hell. They had 3-4” rough and it played tight. While not spectacular I can honestly say that it is better than 75%-80% of the private clubs around the Chicago suburbs.
            Pat,  My recollections of Brown Deer having lived in Milwaukee aren't as fond as yours. It is in fact a good course but a stretch to suggest it is better than 75-80% of the private clubs in Chicago. Maybe 10%. What private clubs specifically do you mean? /quote]Jack

[Matthew Rose]

This is why I lament the loss of the International... stableford may not be everyone's cup of tea, but at least it was different.

That, and I'm moving to Colorado after their tour event goes away.

[Phil McDade]

Phil,

Milwaukee and San Antonio were just the two that came to mind. It really applies to every tournament that Tiger doesn't play in.

Agreed -- although I'd extend that to Tiger, and a few others, such as Mickelson, Els, Singh perhaps, and a few others.

There is almost a three-tier Tour these days (or, was, before THE KNEE...) -- tourneys with Tiger, tourneys without Tiger but some other big names and/or played at historic courses (Colonial comes to mind, or Westchester or Hilton Head), and the run-of-the-mill stuff like the stops at Memphis and New Orleans. One of the things that I think is under-appreciated is how sponsor ties can play into this -- the Buick tourney near Flint, MI, used to be a real snoozer, played on a nothing course where -25 would win, until Tiger started showing up because of his contract w/ Buick. (And there is some lingering resentment in Milwaukee that a tourney that gave him his first pro entry has never seen him come back in a decade.)

I, too, lament the end of the International and the Stableford -- it produced some exciting finishes. I liked the addition of the match-play tourney, but it seems too often to be suspectible to less-than-compelling match-ups in the final. A few good ones, but not many.

[RJ_Daley]

I slightly disagree about a change of venue at the Milwaukee Open, US Bank, whatever.  The charm of having the tour stop at Brown Deer is that it is very community and family oriented for both players and fans.  The course is within the confines of a great county park.  It is said that many of the tour players and their families quite enjoy the low key atmosphere that gives them a chance to picnic, and socialise like a big tailgate party of sorts.  I think that is particularly important for the lesser known journeymen players that aren't so well known.   The tour gets to be such a week in and week out grind, hard on their families, etc.   I think many of them use this week to gear down, while having a chance to win or place high on tour while the big boys are away.  I think the low key, shorter course, less deep field is a good thing, as long as they can keep the sponsors ponying up the money to put it on.  I think that Milwaukee will never lack for volunteers for this event, but the big cash has to keep sponsoring to keep it alive.  I hope they do...

[Joe Hancock]

An organization that strives to have hazards standardized from location to location, week to week isn't a prime candidate for change, IMO.

I like the idea, however.

Joe

[Phil McDade]

I slightly disagree about a change of venue at the Milwaukee Open, US Bank, whatever.  The charm of having the tour stop at Brown Deer is that it is very community and family oriented for both players and fans.  The course is within the confines of a great county park.  It is said that many of the tour players and their families quite enjoy the low key atmosphere that gives them a chance to picnic, and socialise like a big tailgate party of sorts.  I think that is particularly important for the lesser known journeymen players that aren't so well known.   The tour gets to be such a week in and week out grind, hard on their families, etc.   I think many of them use this week to gear down, while having a chance to win or place high on tour while the big boys are away.  I think the low key, shorter course, less deep field is a good thing, as long as they can keep the sponsors ponying up the money to put it on.  I think that Milwaukee will never lack for volunteers for this event, but the big cash has to keep sponsoring to keep it alive.  I hope they do...

Richard:

I agree on most of your points about the atmosphere -- I like that there's a place for the short hitters to feel at home! And volunteers (and our Germanic-roots obsession with doing things well and on time and in an organized way) are a real advantage for the tourney -- I'm pretty sure the PGA and USGA have re-booked major events in Wisconsin because of our reliable supply of hardy volunteers.

But this list (most importantly, the list of purses) gives me pause about the long-term future of the Tour stop here:

http://www.pgatour.com/r/schedule/

The Tour is all about ponying up bucks, and the PGA under Finchem has been utterly ruthless in its pursuit of dollars over things like venues, tradition, and locales.

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