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Dean Stokes

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Gorse on golf courses.
« on: June 22, 2008, 05:15:38 PM »
Is there much gorse on golf courses in the US? If not, why not? I have not seen it on many photos on this site and it has not been present on any courses I've played.

Apart from looking great, it really frames the holes beautifully and has simply got to be of the best natural hazards you can find.

See photos of Gleneagle for examples.
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Bart Bradley

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Re: Gorse on golf courses.
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2008, 05:24:09 PM »
Dean:

Bandon was/is covered in gorse but I believe that it was originally brought there by a Scotsman and planted on the property.  I am not sure that gorse is native to the US.

I bet the people who worked for Kidd and Doak at Bandon have a lot to say about gorse...it sounds like it was absolutely dreadful to clear the stuff.  Have you read "Dream Golf"?

Well, let's see what the experts have to say.

Bart
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Marty Bonnar

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Re: Gorse on golf courses.
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2008, 05:30:18 PM »
Dean,
there's been a good few threads on Gorse (Ulex europaeus) over the years.

I think I recall that it is not a native species to the US. Maybe someone can confim/correct? Big clue in the name!

It's certainly one helluva hazard. If you go in it, not only will it hurt your score, it'll actually hurt YOU too! Maybe just a tad too penal? I'm sure the many  ;D masochists among this fraternity might enjoy a ramble betwixt and between the jaggy wee spikes, but not I!!!

Looks and smells pretty though...

FBD.
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Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Dean Stokes

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Re: Gorse on golf courses.
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2008, 05:34:22 PM »
It may not be native but surely it would grow in certain areas of the US.
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David_Tepper

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Re: Gorse on golf courses.
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2008, 05:34:41 PM »
Here is a link to the Wikipedia entry on gorse:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorse

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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Gorse on golf courses.
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2008, 05:41:28 PM »
Dean:

I've only seen gorse in a few places here in the USA ... the Pacific Northwest coast from Oregon to Victoria, B.C., and I think I've seen it in Gloucester, Mass. as well.

It is not a native plant of the USA, but it was brought to the Oregon coast by Lord Bandon of Ireland to help stabilize the dunes, and it did -- too much so!  It is one of the most aggressive plants there is, and the Oregon coast is a perfect habitat for it; it remains in flower at Bandon for MUCH longer than any I've seen in Scotland or Ireland.

I don't know what has stopped it from taking over the world.  Perhaps it will die back if the ground freezes?
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Andy Levett

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Re: Gorse on golf courses.
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2008, 05:51:39 PM »
I'm not an expert but I think it grows in the UK where nothing else does. You don't want to encourage it. Heather on the other hand is great - perfect half shot penalty where you can find your ball but can't just hammer away.
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Dean Stokes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gorse on golf courses.
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2008, 05:58:19 PM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on June 22, 2008, 05:41:28 PM
Dean:

I've only seen gorse in a few places here in the USA ... the Pacific Northwest coast from Oregon to Victoria, B.C., and I think I've seen it in Gloucester, Mass. as well.

It is not a native plant of the USA, but it was brought to the Oregon coast by Lord Bandon of Ireland to help stabilize the dunes, and it did -- too much so!  It is one of the most aggressive plants there is, and the Oregon coast is a perfect habitat for it; it remains in flower at Bandon for MUCH longer than any I've seen in Scotland or Ireland.

I don't know what has stopped it from taking over the world.  Perhaps it will die back if the ground freezes?
Tom, apart from it's good looks and colors, do you not like it more as a feature on the course? Would you not like to use it in places where perhaps you would maybe put a bunker now?
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David_Tepper

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Re: Gorse on golf courses.
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2008, 06:23:20 PM »
Dean -

Using gorse as a strategic element on a golf course would be the equivalent of a water hazard or worse. There is no playable recovery from a ball in a gorse bush. More often than not, a ball hit into a gorse bush is never found.

DT
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Bill_McBride

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Re: Gorse on golf courses.
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2008, 07:19:54 PM »
Dean, at Dornoch recently, they were cutting gorse back off the fairway lines as quickly as possible. 

It's interesting the way the gorse on #3 and #4, strong par 4s at Royal Dornoch with bunkering down the right side, affects the play of those holes.  The closer you can bring yourself to drive to the gorse line, the longer and safer your tee shot will be.  But oh my, what a penalty if you drive too far left or (horrors  :o ), hit a hook. 

It's a lost ball, not a lateral.  Two shots.

You can't see the left side of #3 in this photo, but you can see the left of #4 in the background.  The closer you drive to that gorse line, the better your tee shot......

« Last Edit: June 22, 2008, 07:23:09 PM by Bill_McBride »
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Dean Stokes

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Re: Gorse on golf courses.
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2008, 07:21:49 PM »
David,

I would hardly say a gorse bush ( 6yds x 6 yds) on the corner of a dogleg is anything like a water hazard, either in looks or as a strategic element.

Firstly it looks wonderful and secondly you can go either side of it or over it which you usually cannot with a water hazard. If you hit it in and cannot find it, drop one! Should you always be able to find your ball after a crappy shot?

I've played many course in the UK that feature gorse, never once have I thought it looks bad or does not belong on a golf course as a strategic element, that is why I questioned why there is not more of it found in the US.
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Living The Dream in The Palm Beaches....golfing, yoga-ing, horsing around and working damn it!!!!!!!

Marty Bonnar

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Re: Gorse on golf courses.
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2008, 07:30:21 PM »
Dean,
alien species in a country are never any good.

Would you be so kind as to pop over and remove all of your pesky Grey Squirrels? They're eating their native Red cousins out of house and home.

Case in Point. The Victorians thought it would be rather spiffy to import Greys into the UK. Unfortunately, they out-compete the smaller NATIVE Reds and are now considered a pest species. We have recently appointed a Red Squirrel Officer who now has Carte Blanche to eradicate the alien in Fife!!!

Nothing good ever comes of mankind believing he is above nature.

FBD.
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gorse on golf courses.
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2008, 07:37:01 PM »
Quote from: Dean Stokes on June 22, 2008, 07:21:49 PM
David,

I would hardly say a gorse bush ( 6yds x 6 yds) on the corner of a dogleg is anything like a water hazard, either in looks or as a strategic element.

Firstly it looks wonderful and secondly you can go either side of it or over it which you usually cannot with a water hazard. If you hit it in and cannot find it, drop one! Should you always be able to find your ball after a crappy shot?

I've played many course in the UK that feature gorse, never once have I thought it looks bad or does not belong on a golf course as a strategic element, that is why I questioned why there is not more of it found in the US.

Dean, see my post above, I added a photo to show you the gorse at Dornoch.  The problem with a 6 yard x 6 yard gorse bush is that it will be a lot bigger in a few years, that stuff is hardy and prolific.
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Kalen Braley

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Re: Gorse on golf courses.
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2008, 09:43:31 PM »
I'm sniffing a GCA Hypocrisy thread coming down the pipe on gorse and its wide acceptance here, yet christmas trees on golf courses are almost always condemned.

At least if you hit in one of those, you have a chance instead of automatic lost ball penalty with gorse...
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Pete_Pittock

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Re: Gorse on golf courses.
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2008, 01:39:19 AM »
Scotch broom is another non-native invasive species. Oregon is trying to contain it but some 16=year old Tillamook student is trying to distill it into a biofuel. His story was in today's Oregonian, which looks at the importations.
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Norbert P

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Re: Gorse on golf courses.
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2008, 02:05:03 AM »
 It was told to me by a Red Tufted Kenyon Jay that every year the Bandon town folks dig up the body of the Irish Lord who imported gorse, shoot him twice in rollicking spirited fervor - torches ablaze and pitchforks raised - and bury the bastard again to protect him from the fate of Mussolini (whose corpse was bludgeoned beyond recognition), so they can re-enact their ritual into perpetuity, as a reminder to those who might consider bringing to these shores of Eden, another invasive species.      (!)   
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