Congrats Tiger, Rocco, USGA, Mike Davis...Torrey

[David Druzisky]

I must say that was a very enjoyable US Open!  No complaints on this end.  The competition was fantastic with the best player in the world being cahllenged by a great guy that we could all root for.

The course set-up really was well thought through with the players all in favor of it yet they still struggled to score and maintain scores near par.  The set up also seemed to take the focus off of the golf course and put it back on the competition.  Now I know many of us were less then excited about Torrey as a venue but it ended up being just fine.  (It is only a shame to think how the course will go back to its usual presentation.)  It seems it turned out that the USGA choose wisely in having it played in So. Cal.  The crowds were great, the weather was fine with just enough wind to make the players factor it into the play.  Even the playoff was very well attended.  Only in CA will they play hookey like that!

The value of the 18 hole playoff was realized today with each player taking his turn at the lead only to have to go another hole to finish it.  I had to go to the office today so thank goodness for the streaming video I was able to catch on-line!

So, were many of us a little to picky and or critical going in?  I probably was.

DbD

[David Kelly]

Great competition. Fun finish. But the course is still from hunger in my opinion. 

To me, living in SoCal and having had the opportunity many itmes, the course is just not that intersting to PLAY.  After spending a ton of time and money they set it up so that it provided a very good tournament to watch from a spectator's point of view.  But golf courses are meant to be played and TP South is just not that exciting or interesting to play.

[Jim Johnson]

But golf courses are meant to be played and TP South is just not that exciting or interesting to play.

David, what changes would you want to see to make it more interesting to play?

Curious.

[Richard Choi]

For the life of me, I cannot think of another US Open where EVERYBODY was happy with the tournament - players, media, fans, etc.

I really have not heard a single negative thing about this open (well, may be except for Poa, but Tiger handled it okay).

[John Kirk]

OK David Kelly, I trust your opinion about how fun Torrey Pines is.  However, can anyone deny the tournament was a huge television success?  I say the U.S. Open tournament was improved by choosing a flatter, longer, and less severe course.  The players had a chance to hit a few fairways.  They played from a wide variety of lies in the rough.  They made a few long putts. Because the course is gentler, there were fewer demoralizing results, and many more uplifting shots than the previous tournaments at Oakmont and Winged Foot.  Augusta National faces the same problem today.  It's so damn tough around the greens that nobody makes a move, and when Immelman (or Mickelson a couple years ago) got ahead by a few shots, it was over.

I thought there was a major architectural statement made by this tournament.  The solution is obvious:  make the course longer and give the guys a little more room to spray the ball.  Use putting surfaces that allow a decent chance of recovery.  You've got to have flatter greens and shallower bunkers to do that.  Remember that length is the key defender of par.

Think about how great the top of the leaderboard was on Sunday.  10-12 well known veteran golfers, all in contention, with different styles and strengths, grinding it out.  It was spectacular golf for the final three days.

We architecture buffs would likely choose Oakmont or Winged Foot, and certainly Augusta National, over Torrey Pines.  But the severity of the greens yield less exciting results by tentative golfers playing defensively.  For these reasons, Chambers Bay will make a fine Open venue, if they can keep the poa annua out until 2015, and the USGA will gladly return to Torrey Pines.

[Michael Dugger]

OK David Kelly, I trust your opinion about how fun Torrey Pines is.  However, can anyone deny the tournament was a huge television success?  I say the U.S. Open tournament was improved by choosing a flatter, longer, and less severe course.  The players had a chance to hit a few fairways.  They played from a wide variety of lies in the rough.  They made a few long putts. Because the course is gentler, there were fewer demoralizing results, and many more uplifting shots than the previous tournaments at Oakmont and Winged Foot.  Augusta National faces the same problem today.  It's so damn tough around the greens that nobody makes a move, and when Immelman (or Mickelson a couple years ago) got ahead by a few shots, it was over.

I thought there was a major architectural statement made by this tournament.  The solution is obvious:  make the course longer and give the guys a little more room to spray the ball.  Use putting surfaces that allow a decent chance of recovery.  You've got to have flatter greens and shallower bunkers to do that.  Remember that length is the key defender of par.

Think about how great the top of the leaderboard was on Sunday.  10-12 well known veteran golfers, all in contention, with different styles and strengths, grinding it out.  It was spectacular golf for the final three days.

We architecture buffs would likely choose Oakmont or Winged Foot, and certainly Augusta National, over Torrey Pines.  But the severity of the greens yield less exciting results by tentative golfers playing defensively.  For these reasons, Chambers Bay will make a fine Open venue, if they can keep the poa annua out until 2015, and the USGA will gladly return to Torrey Pines.

As usual, a well reasoned post Mr. Kirk.

But...........I find "demoralizing" golf perfectly entertaining. 

As a matter of fact, I find it most entertaining.  I don't really give a dang about the professionals and how their precious egos are affected by the course set up. 

I want blood! 

And, if I may, can you please tell me the net sum difference between flatter greens rolling at 12 vs more undulating ones stimping at 8? 

I personally find there isn't one really..... 

[Kalen Braley]

The comments about this course being long are a bit odd in the face of it only being set up to play at ~7200 yards the last two days despite its much advertised tipped out value at over 7600 yards.

[John Kirk]

Mr. Kirk?

Except for the fact that Winged Foot's greens were a little bumpy and rolling around 11.5-12, and that Augusta and Oakmont's greens were rolling in the 13-14 range, a well reasoned post your ownself.

I imagine we could figure out the differences between slower, sloped surfaces and faster, flat surfaces if we studied it a bit.  Mostly, the faster surfaces are probably easier to make shorter putts on, because the surfaces would generally be smoother.  We may find out at Chambers Bay, where the greens would be a bit slower.

And I don't want blood.  I want to cheer with positive enthusiasm and excitement as Rocco lines up his birdie putt on 18 from 20 feet, knowing he has a chance to make it and upset the great champion Woods!

Woo-hoo!  What a great tournament.

[John Kirk]

It was 7250 the last two days, and maybe 7400-7500 the first two.  I think that is way longer than previous Opens.  Just because Oakmont can be stretched to 7200 doesn't mean they used the whole thing.  Probably more like 7000-7100 most days.

[W.H. Cosgrove]

During a time when real estate is struggling, the game of golf hasn't really grown and the general opinion is that the game is for old fogies, this Open has to be good for the game overall. 

The USGA finally, I hope, understands that 'for the good of the game' means that it will grow and thrive and be intersting intodays world.  Wherever I went today on my working rounds people who had never watched golf before were talking about how exciting this tournament was.  The USGA got even par, they got competition, they got drama and thay got the worlds best golfer to win.  What more could any of us ask for the 'good of the game.'

[Michael Dugger]

Just messin' with ya on the Mr. Kirk thing, John. 

It's all about perspective.  These are millionaires playing a game, I hardly think a difficult golf course is going to send them into hysteria!

I can never buy into the "it's too hard" crap.   When I see a tournament where they are destroying the golf course to the tune of 29 under par, I feel a good stiff test is quite justified.  I mean c'mon folks, the U.S. Open only comes around once a year.



 

[David Kelly]

But golf courses are meant to be played and TP South is just not that exciting or interesting to play.

David, what changes would you want to see to make it more interesting to play?
Curious.

I'm not an architect so I can't tell you what I would do but I would say that the site itself is handicapped by being mostly flat.  There isn't a lot of natural movement that can be taken advantage of and the ravines are just not really able to be brought into play.   My idea of an interesting course is not the type that would be good for a US Open but I would like to see (like I would on any course) cross bunkering, wider fairways with natural movement, green sites that have a relation to their surroundings, flowing, internal contouring on the greens, etc. 

I'm not advocating that they do this - the tourney was very successful and the course will be printing money for the foreseeable future - but it is my opinon that playing the course is just not that interesting.

[Peter Wagner]

During a time when real estate is struggling, the game of golf hasn't really grown and the general opinion is that the game is for old fogies, this Open has to be good for the game overall. 

The USGA finally, I hope, understands that 'for the good of the game' means that it will grow and thrive and be intersting intodays world.  Wherever I went today on my working rounds people who had never watched golf before were talking about how exciting this tournament was.  The USGA got even par, they got competition, they got drama and thay got the worlds best golfer to win.  What more could any of us ask for the 'good of the game.'

WHC,

I agree 100%.  Part of the USGA's charter is to encourage growth in our sport and the 2008 US Open will certainly help that cause.  The USGA did a great job with the tourney.

- Peter

[David Kelly]

OK David Kelly, I trust your opinion about how fun Torrey Pines is.  However, can anyone deny the tournament was a huge television success? 

From the USGA's perspective this seems as if it has turned out to be a dream event.  But that is not where my interest lies.

[John Kirk]

DK,

As you well know, our likes and dislikes in golf courses are in general agreement.

[David Druzisky]

Glad to hear several of you think it was a success.  It met its intent as far as I can see.  I too do not have much respect for Torrey Pines the golf course but it served the event well.  Good observations on the flatter terrain and subtle greens.  It was nice to see the occasional two shot swing of the positive nature.  It really added excitement to the usual Open grudge match.

A big part of that intent is access and boy did they get that - even today.  In talking with Larry Gilhuly of the USGA up in Washington, they are very excited about what they have planned for access to the course and how well it is going to work for all the facilities and such.

There is no doubt it would be great to see legitimate match play played over courses like Pine Valley, Cypress, Oakmont, Sand Hills, Chicago Golf etc.  If we only had that to satisfy our thirst for competition over trully great fields of play.

DbD


 

[Chris Garrett]

Good posts by all.  The USGA got everything that they could have possibly wanted out of this tournament.  They got lucky, in many ways, that the Tiger story was front and center.  If you replace Tiger with Adam Scott, this tournament gets far less press. 

One of the reasons that I enjoy watching the US Open, British Open, and the PGA, is to see some of the great golf courses in the world.  Any given tournament, I'll usually walk away with several holes that stood out in my mind.  I walk away from this tournament without any such impressions.  Despite that, mission accomplished for the USGA.

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on this:

The 18th yesterday played 525 yards.  Distinct advantage to the long hitters as it is a glorified par 4 for them.  I'm not calling foul on the USGA, but was anyone else bothered by the set-up?

[David Kelly]

The 18th yesterday played 525 yards.  Distinct advantage to the long hitters as it is a glorified par 4 for them.  I'm not calling foul on the USGA, but was anyone else bothered by the set-up?

Good point.  I thought that really played into Tiger's hands.